Question: How do you deal with rude behavior with an artist? Should I write a AB?

[sparsbutt.livejournal.com]

This evening I joined a stream that I was eagerly and awaiting for since the last one and that the artist wasn't taking commissions at that time; and were this time. I was really excited and happy! She stated on her journal/submission "Taking a few small commissions u vu"" Nothing else. So I was on her stream as well as a very popular artist waiting for chibis. Only one chibi was done in-stream and she had a small handful list. Mine was already being sketched and lineart was begun. NOTE: I KNEW she took payment After the work was done since I had bought a icon from her months before. However today was displeasing.
7 hours of her stream, and she during that time was playing a videogame stopping with working on the stream commissions or even to finish my commission (I mean why else would you stream and say your taking commissions, right?) I'm an artist and I don't stream unless I am working.
I had been kind and patient to the artist but what they said to one person who left when she finally, yes finally began to draw again (livestream was still on for 7hours now) one of her customers said "I've been here seven hours, so go ahead and take my name of the list"
The artist responded with a rude remark of "uhm okay lmao". Which I thought was very rude as the customer and even I had been waiting and watching for 7hours. No information was given that the artist Claims we should already know.

Since I've started commissioning since I'm fairly new I'm very lenient and patient but this wasn't the first time I've worked with this artist; or seen this as the first time the user had been rude to people in her stream. It's mildly disturbing on the behavior. Stating my opinion that it was frustrating that she gave NO information whatsoever about the commissions besides pay when finished and ask to get on a list, stating what was wrong with her comment towards the customer who left she argued and was extremely rude THEN saying rules and information about the commissions she was taking in-stream. Shortly I was banned from the stream chat and she made the remark of
"I smell drama and an AB from this.- WE WAITED 7 HOURS FOR SOMETHING WE DIDN'T PAY FOR"

When she states she takes payment AFTER the works is finshed. I blocked/blacklisted the artist on Furaffinity and without changing the sketch takes the sketched/linearted commission with my character's traits still there and posts it as a YCH. Also notice this was a specific pose and idea I wanted my character in as well. I have all the chatlogs from the stream saved on my computer; Sadly since it's Picarto there were no time-stamps.

I don't know what to do or even if I should just post this. Any help or advice would be appreciated. Maybe I'm in the wrong but this is the reason I am asking this. This artist has been rude to me and other commissioners/customers before. Help?

Comments

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I'm going to touch up on the last part first and work backward. Firstly, as you didn't pay for the work the artist is free to reuse what had been done thus far as a YCH. They could not change a thing and just recolor the image and it'd still be technically legal. (Morality is another story.) However, given that it's a YCH we're going to go by the assumption that they plan on changing it to meet the new buyer's specifications. They can do that.

As for if their behavior is bewareable, it'd probably be something the moderation team would have to discuss. Personally speaking, it's rude to have your clients waiting around for hours on end and essentially wasting their time. If one is going to do that, then they need to be explicitly clear that this is what's going to happen. "LOl you're going to pay after" doesn't get you off the hook for poor behavior. There was still a promise of a service.

[adzuki.livejournal.com]

If the sketch wasn't paid for, legally they can use it for a YCH. It seems kinda crappy to do so, but they are within their right to do it.

The long commission stream without doing much commissions seems a bit unprofessional, as well as openly mocking and being rude to customers whether they paid or not.

7 hours is an extremely long time to sit around and wait for something to not happen.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Maybe I didn't understand this correctly but the rude action happened to another person, right? Where the artist sort of laughed off the customer fed up with them. I do think it's pretty crappy that the artist wasted their customer's time but I don't think you can write a beware for something that happened to another person, so you might want to focus the beware on what happened to you directly and what your experience was. I could be wrong about this.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

I'd really like a more concrete context for all that went down because paraphrasing in this case just isn't doing it for me. It's vague enough that yeah, they could have been rude, but they also could have not been or at least not as rude as it may seem at first blush (could have more 'backstory' we're not aware of, the person leaving may have been rude then or rude in the past, it may have been a two sided everybody-was-rude situation...).

As has been covered, even with discussing the specific pose beforehand there's no ownership of that 'idea' and the artist can do what they wish with that base art (and I wouldn't even think of it as particularly shady or weird, even).

[saniika.livejournal.com]

I am a little confused about what happened, but it might be that I'm not a native speaker. Someone got frustrated and cancelled a commission, then you got banned because you told the artist you are frustrated too.
Then they used the drawing in progress for YCH, since they did not take payment from you.

Id agree with others - if its just a pose they can do with it what they please if no payment was accepted for it. :|

I seen and heard of long streams, but that was when a major work was being done, not just fun? If I understood it the artist was not drawing all the time and other activities took the majority of the stream time?

[fayv.livejournal.com]

I don't want to take this away from the post, but this did raise a question for me about stream expectations and appropriate behavior (like is it never okay to start out doing art then switch to games?)
Would it be more appropriate to make an advice post myself?

[adzuki.livejournal.com]

I think it really depends on the nature of the stream.
I think if it is just a fun wee stream and you announce like...time you are going to be doing art and time when you are going to be playing a game that would be cool. That way people who want to commission you or watch you draw can pop in during that time and if people want to watch you play a game they can pop in during the 'game time'.

I dunno tho. Far be it from me to say how people should run their streams. I like to be more schedule / structure based.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I personally feel that if you start a stream just to do personal things, then it's okay to deviate and have fun. But it's quite different if you start a stream with the purpose to do business, and then start doing plenty of other things. In this case, people were waiting around for a service to be rendered so they could pay. We'd probably need more information, but unless the artist stated the art would be done later it's pretty rude.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

This. Like, personally, I do sometimes do other things than art in my commission streams, but ONLY when I'm taking a short break, and I always announce it to my stream viewers. In my case, it's because I often do very long streams (generally, anywhere between 6 - 10 hours, sometimes even 12 hours) and I don't turn my stream off to eat...I just announce I'm taking a 20 minute break to scarf down some food and put on a YouTube video or something as entertainment while I do that. But I think that's very different than setting up a commission stream and then gaming for a few hours. That's really unprofessional and a huge waste of time for viewers/clients. :\

[thaily.livejournal.com]

If you advertise it as a business stream (doing art, taking commissions) then people should probably just do that and not switch to games or whatever. It kinds of sounds like she wanted an audience to watch her play games and used the promise of commissions to make people stick around. In which case she should NOT be surprised when people feel disillusioned and annoyed, the (potential) customer's time is valuable too.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

I was in the stream, the artist was not streaming the game she was playing as it was a DS game.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

So the stream was just idling?

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

Basically, she put up a notice in her stream (a chibi drawing) letting people know that she was playing a game at the moment.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

.. Why? It's perfectly to stream a few hours and then stop to play a game. Why leave the stream idling with people waiting? Just ask them if they mind if she finishes their commissions off-line or at the next stream. The artist has to realize it's not cool to leave people hanging, especially not to goof off.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

I really can't say! Maybe she just likes chatting with people while playing a game? I'm just adding in a little more information since I was actually in the stream and have logs of the specific incident. ;m;

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Guess we'll have to be bewildered together. Like I said, perfectly normal to stream whatever, and to stop streaming art after a while to do something else and relax, just be up front about what you're doing.

[whoop-zi.livejournal.com]

it is absolutely within the artist's rights to resell an unused sketch, so you can't really make a beware out of that. regardless i understand your frustration, because no, taking payment afterwards doesn't give you the right to be rude to your potential customers. if i were in your position i would probably be put off from commissioning said artist again after that, but i don't know if i'd pursue a beware. that's up to you- the worst that can happen is you submit it and it gets rejected. it really comes down to what you have specifically(screencaps etc) and if it's enough, because this post is a little vague and i too would be interested in seeing the more concrete details.

edit: sorry for all the edits i swear i'm done now /m\

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

I had a lot of trouble reading and getting a grasp of the situation with this entry, but basically everything whoop_zi said.

[chaossal.livejournal.com]

The artist does come off as unprofessional, but even if they ych off your idea you can still have another artist draw the same idea for you and if anyone asks about the similarities you can show them the logs that it WAS your idea before they made it into a ych.

I personally think having people wait in a stream 7 hours for their commision only to not do it and then ban you and use your idea as a ych is bewareable, especially since you have said they have been rude to you and others before. But that is not up to me so I would just make sure to screen shot everything and post a beware on your personal experience with this artist and see if it gets accepted.

[jane vakarian (from livejournal.com)]

hummm...
I think I need more information.
Was she expected to finish them in stream?
Sometimes I'll take commissions in stream start them then finish them later out of stream, have never had a problem that way.

The pose she can use. I wouldnt find it shady either. The work wasn't paid for, she is within her rights to re use that to gain back losses. ( I think many artists have a clause in their TOS about unused sketches )

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

I don't bother with streams anymore for pretty much this exact reason. I just want buy a drawing from you, not sit around listening to you talk for hours. No offense, but I have other things to do.

I wouldn't bother with this artist anymore, but as for whether the behavior here is "beware able"...na, I don't really think so. You didn't pay for the sketch, and you're certainly free to get your idea drawn by a different artist.

[forsaken-malice.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure I know the artist this is referencing... And I've definitely had the same experience if it's who I think. I agree that it's not really beware-able as no money exchanged hands, but I DO think their behavior is really unprofessional and childish. The general attitude really makes me want to avoid buying from them.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Sounds like the artist kind of enjoys drama to be honest; nobody likes to have their time wasted. I can't imagine how patient you must be to stick through 7 hours of someone gaming in the hopes of getting your art, jeesh. If the artist changed their mind about doing a commission stream, they should have just gone "You know what, I need some time to relax. Sorry guys, gonna play some games now, but feel free to hang around if you enjoy watching that." and then edit any stream notices they might have put up.

As I said above, kind of sounds like they were using the promise of art to keep a captive audience. Which also would have been fine, if they had just said that ahead of time "Gonna game and raffle off a sketch among watchers sometime during the stream!"

I guess the TL;DR here is "do what you say you're going to do".

It's pretty gross of them to just put the sketch up as a YCH without even changing some character characteristics around. I would not blame you if you used the sketch to show another artist you want to commission and explain the situation to them "This artist flaked on my commission and are selling the pose I wanted as a YCH, but this is the pose I wanted, could you redraw the pose in your own style?"

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

She actually wasn't playing games for 7 hours. She worked on three or four different pictures from the start of the stream till the end. She did play games for about two or three hours. The confusion comes from the fact that one of the people on her list had been waiting 7 hours, but they were like third on the list.

[torch-tiger.livejournal.com]

So the person was 3rd on the list, she worked on 3-4 pictures, but none of them were that persons?

I have to assume the person was expecting to have to give details to the artist, cause that's a long time to wait otherwise.

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

Or they thought they need to pay before the artist will start, and if they weren't in the stream to pay, their place would be cancelled? Since apparently people in the stream didn't know the artist takes payment only afterwards.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

She was working on a personal picture through some of the stream, which isn't unusual for her.

MOD COMMENT

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

Screening comment. This is an advice post, not a beware.

Please do not out yourself as the subject of this advice post again.

[forsaken-malice.livejournal.com]

Just a note you have the artist's name in there a few times >.>;

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

The only name left in was the one of the OP who posted the A_B.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

They mention the artist's name in the text.
And yeah, I've heard similar stories from this artist.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

Oops! I'll fix it. o_o Sorry, I'm exhausted.

Edit: oh poop I can't edit it because it's been replied to. D: If someone can screen it, I can repost it with better editing. Super sorry about that. ;m;

mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

This is an advice post, not an A_B. It can be taken as a general question. Like we stated above, in order to say if this was bewareable it'd have to come through the queue.

it has been screened for containing the artist's name, but as a side note it may not be necessary due to the nature of the post.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Since time stamps aren't really here, does anyone know how long she actually stopped to play games? How often was she going on and off working on an image? How long before people got fed up? I know some artists take a while on images and she could have been dawdling, sure. But if she took like what, 4 hrs playing games, and 3 hrs working.. yeah that might suck. She probably could have mentioned it in the stream listing that she would be on and off. Personally when I typically stream for work, I just work. But some artists are different. And although no one has been paid I can see the frustration.

It's an interesting situation but I can see the frustration on both sides. I think it would be best if said artist (if they read this) to possibly mention in future streams that they are casually working vs. straight up working.

[lichdog.livejournal.com]

eh-- personal aside. use of emotes in terms of business is really offputting. "uwu" "uvu" "XD" etc just looks childish as hell and the whole LMAOOOO thing too. NO oh god no.

I'd probably be disinterested in doing business with them, regardless of how amazing their art is.

[lamentobento.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be quick to condemn people based on smiley faces unless they are using them in an essay or resume, haha... I sent in my application to the company I work for only to get a reply in lowercase and :))))))s from the Art Lead. I felt like such a dunce for keeping up such a polite tone for so long and in the long run xDDD and ^^ is flung around like it's nothing. All these people are highly professional, but they are VERY chill as far as tone goes.
HOWEVER--Adjusting to your client's tone is the best way. If your client writes in a polite manner, it's best to keep business on the same level so they don't get a bad impression of you!

[lichdog.livejournal.com]

Might be me jumping the gun, yeah. I REALLY hate "uwu" and "uvu" personally.

I also agree on the keeping on the level. But generally I prefer to go off as polite and semi-formal before getting all cutesy.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

This sounds very unpleasant. I don't really have any advice to offer other than not to work with the artist again.

As an artist, I think it would be fun to stream... but I am all over the place when I am drawing. I stop to read fanfics, play FB games, check my email, etc... I need to do these things 'cause I can't work on a pic from start to finish all in one go, and I don't want any stream watchers to get annoyed with me... so I don't stream.

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

Wait she was gaming on picarto... Oh dear the artist can get into trouble for that since picarto TOS only tolerates game streams for five minutes. Considering it's an art streaming site.

MOD COMMENT

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

Screening comment. This is an advice post, not a beware.

Re: MOD COMMENT

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

You are more than welcome to tell your side of the story in a -regular- beware situation.

This is not a regular beware, but an advice post. With advice posts, it is not permitted to reveal who it is about, but to get advice on how to handle situations.

If you wish to discuss this further, I'm going to ask that you PM myself, or any of the other mods in the community, rather than discuss it further here in comments.

(frozen)

[puddingpaw.livejournal.com]

You're the last person to have the nerve to post in AB

You owe people art from your old banned accounts.

(frozen) mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

There's no need for that. This isn't an A_B; it's an advice post.

[werewolfofwater.livejournal.com]

Were you required to stay in the stream in order to receive your commission? If not, why did you feel obligated to stay there for 7 hours?