Advice on selling NSFW art?

[rosereaver.livejournal.com]

Hello! I'm hoping this is the correct place to ask as I don't know where else to ask about advice and legalities regarding art.


I'm becoming more comfortable with nudity and I was hoping to start selling NSFW art through commissions in the future, but my friend brought up the point that minors could be buying it and I would never know. The scenario I'm worried about is what if their parents find out and I end up getting in trouble? I'm less worried about being charged back if that were to happen as it couldn't be helped, but I'm worried about guardians wanting to possibly get me in trouble. Would the minor lying about their age work against me in the way of "ignorance of the law is no excuse," or is there something I can do to protect myself against that possibly happening, and ways to protect myself if it does happen?

I see plenty of other artists who sell NSFW art and have never seen this issue happen, so I wasn't aware that it is a possiblity until my friend brought it up.

For reference I live in California if it matters due to any laws that anyone might know of. Please and thank you?

Comments

[dragroon.livejournal.com]

I've been doing adult work for about a year now and I've never had a issue on that caliber, nor have I heard of it? however there was a debacle of chargebacks from a younger individual who had purchased art and their parents issued multiple chargebacks.

Infact on here the only issue I've ever seen is teenagers purchasing art with their parents cards and issuing chargebacks. There is no way for the parents to actually know what the art is of, unless you put the file in the Paypal or you put in the description what was purchased.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

Or the customer does. I've seen a few journals on FA relating to Paypal freezing accounts if the description is explicit. Something that younger folks tend to do.

Best advise I've seen for that is to immediately refund (or refuse to accept payment) and either cancel the commission (because if they can't pay without being that dumb, it's just a given they'll be more trouble), or insist they pay without explicit language.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

The best thing to do to get around that is to not accept payment that isn't attached to an invoice. If you send the invoice, you pick the language.

This also helps avoid people sending money as a gift instead of correctly sending it as a payment. Yes, that does get around the fees, but doing that can also get your account suspended for misuse.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

That is not entirely correct, at least the last time I saw an invoice. They still provide a place for the buyer to enter comments -- which is anything.

It will cut down the odds of them saying or doing something stupid, though.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

As far as I know, none of my customers have been minors, but I have noticed many minors following my NSFW art blog on tumblr (which I put out a periodic reminder that they should not be following me). So I guess we can say that minors are a part of the NSFW community, and if you see any of them disclose their age (such as on their tumblr page) I would just cut off all contact.

The chances of a minor commissioning NSFW art seems low though. Aside from taking their parent's cards, I assume most minors don't have a way to get their money onto paypal easily (especially since moneypak seems to be down) and most of them don't seem to have a lot of money. Higher prices may dissuade minors.

However you can never really truly know if someone is a minor or not. D:

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

"In my commissioning adult work, you are agreeing that you are of legal age to purchase and view such content."

Make sure it's visible everywhere.

As for your question states do have laws that protect minors from adults attempting to show them sexual content. While it has never come up in furry, it doesn't mean that the parent or guardian can't pursue charges. California is Penal Code 288.2 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/288.2.html)

Provided that you state that you only sell to adults, and that you had no prior knowledge that said person was a minor you should be fine.

Keep in mind that depending on the state this can also branch into guro/gore content as well. I suggest folks research what is legal and what isn't in their own state.

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

Send an email to the registered email that sent you payment, as a thank you and acknowledgement of monies received, and include both as part of the email and as a *.txt attachment your ToS, which should have somewhere very clear that your adult work is only sold TO adults, and that by commissioning you, they are stating that they are, indeed, adults in the eyes of their municipality.

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

Also be aware that most of the regular payment systems online don't permit sales of adult materials that could be considered pornographic, and that they are the ones who can define what constitutes porn. Check with your payment method regarding that.

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

Also be aware that it's not their municipality that matters so much as the country the artist is in. In the US, it doesn't matter if the recipient is considered an adult by their local law, if they are under 18 and you use the net or US mail to send them adult content and you are in the US, you are the one in trouble for selling/distributing to a minor.

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

In most cases you can be prosecuted under both federal and state laws! It's a real headache. :-/

Now, in practice, I haven't heard about furries being prosecuted for selling adult commissions, either by state or federal government, but there is at least a theoretical issue there.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I have never had an issue with NSFW art. I've been doing commissions non stop for four years, and on and off for much longer.

With minors, buying ANY art is an issue as they cant enter a contract. You should be less worried about only NSFW and more worried about them buying commissions at all.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

Very clear wording forbidding minors in your TOS is enough to protect you from any NSFW issues.

The bigger possible issue IRT minors is a teenager using their parents' credit card without permission, then the parents hitting you with a chargeback when they realize it. Because minors can't legally enter into contracts of any kind, there isn't a whole lot you can do about it and the money is probably just a loss. This isn't super common, but I have heard of it happening.

[zielomizu.livejournal.com]

Unlike what a lot of people are saying, it is IN FACT, not a defense to just post everywhere that your commissioners must be 18+ years to commission porn.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0800-0899/0847/0847.html

See: "847.0133 Protection of minors; prohibition of certain acts in connection with obscenity; penalty." and "847.013 Exposing minors to harmful motion pictures, exhibitions, shows, presentations, or representations."
(you can hit crtl + F to search for those numbers)

So according to this, if a minor commissions porn from you and their parents find out and decide to prosecute you, it is NOT a legal defense to say "But they agreed that they were 18! It says so in my TOS!"

But going along with what Teekchan said, doing commissions for minors is a HUGE legal risk anyway, because they can enter a chargeback or simply not pay you, and this is technically legal, because they can't enter a legal contract.

But if you're concerned about accidentally doing porn for minors and getting in trouble for it, you should do one of the following things: 1) Not take porn commissions, 2) Only take porn commissions from your friends/people you've met in person and know the age of, 3) require Proof of Age from your commissioners before you will draw mature or adult artwork.

How I do proof of age and my definitions for mature/adult artwork can be found here as an example: http://grumpmonster.weebly.com/terms-of-service.html

EDIT: OPPS that link's for florida - it seems the california law is less strict, but I have not been able to find federal law yet. None the less, I wouldn't trust it, as you could very well end up selling to people where not knowing is not a defense.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Honestly I think most minors won't ever admit to a adult they bought out right custom made porn online, at most they say ARTWORK and do shifty charge backs to appease a parent based on value spent.

Because really, how many 14 year olds are open about not only buying adult art but also being into either furry art, or anime, comic book, or TV erotica to their parents?...

I do adult art and I've had even 21+ buyers be SUPER cautious about my mailing of original art and how it's tagged, bagged, or sent..so room mates or family members don't question them.

And at the end of the day, as long as your TOS states that minors and PRON are a no go, I doubt any minor is gonna tell a parent they bought adult work from you, and it might come back to bite you. Teens are more worried about their own butts, hence why most charge back events, parents don't even seem to know more than 'my kid spent WAY too much on art this month!"

[matsiwolf.livejournal.com]

Make an order form for them to fill out for the commission(s) they want and include a check box to agree to something such as: "by checking this box you agree that you are of legal age to purchase this product"
Most online form services will also let you include an age verification line.

Including something like this will pretty much keep you safe from any liability issues.

Alternatively if you upload an adult commissions ad picture onto FA, make sure you mark it as adult so that in order to see it the person would have had to say their age was old enough and it will protect you as well since they would have to lie about their age, making it their problem instead of yours.

If you are going to use Paypal I suggest use of the invoice or a built in payment into some type of form to receive payments... offering a tangible product along with the commission, such as a print will also help protect you from charge backs. NEVER accept a payment made as a gift.

Hope this helps you. :)

My experiences

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

I know FA and DA do not perfectly search for underage users or anything but I've never had anyone commission me that wasn't an adult with their own paypal and card. I tend to know most of my clients either from long online convos, friends of friends or I met them at cons. I live in Cali too ;D

While it's possible for kids to nab credit cards, usually furries are not the crowd of people who want to out themselves to their family by buying cartoon animal porn. There's so much free stuff on the web I'd be MORE worried about the "hey woudl u draw my char for free plz i have no money" messages- b/c really, there's a lot of newbie artists who draw for free and I seriously suspect they are more likely to draw something for someone underage. I do agree that having them provide proof of age is legit. I'm too lazy for that so I pretty much only do commissions for people who have their own credit cards and paypals linked to the email address I can contact.

OR I do commissions for people I know- my Furcon contacts pretty much keep me busy all year and I can often seek out more commission work from the people I didn't see at a specific con.

I'm not saying it's not something important to consider, but so far it's been a non-issue for furries as far as I can tell. I kind of feel like most minors who want the thrill of adult material will check the box and say they are 18 and browse away rather than spend their money (what little they may have) on custom commissions. At least, this is what everyone else did when I was too young for paypal, credit cards and linked bank accounts. Also, I wasn't a jerk and didn't want anyone to get in trouble for my pervy ways. Things may have changed as I have been an adult perv a long while... XD

If you have doubts, I'd say get to know people you can trust who can recommend you to others who are able to buy their own art. I started selling through the Furbuy/ Furbid whatever, auction house websites for furries specifically because they have adult sections and require you to check legal age notices and stuff like that. It's not perfect but it's an extra layer of defense that you were selling specifically TO adults on a site that very explicitly states FOR ADULTS ONLY.

My experiences

[aazhie.livejournal.com]

I know FA and DA do not perfectly search for underage users or anything but I've never had anyone commission me that wasn't an adult with their own paypal and card. I tend to know most of my clients either from long online convos, friends of friends or I met them at cons. I live in Cali too ;D

While it's possible for kids to nab credit cards, usually furries are not the crowd of people who want to out themselves to their family by buying cartoon animal porn. There's so much free stuff on the web I'd be MORE worried about the "hey woudl u draw my char for free plz i have no money" messages- b/c really, there's a lot of newbie artists who draw for free and I seriously suspect they are more likely to draw something for someone underage. I do agree that having them provide proof of age is legit. I'm too lazy for that so I pretty much only do commissions for people who have their own credit cards and paypals linked to the email address I can contact.

OR I do commissions for people I know- my Furcon contacts pretty much keep me busy all year and I can often seek out more commission work from the people I didn't see at a specific con.

I'm not saying it's not something important to consider, but so far it's been a non-issue for furries as far as I can tell. I kind of feel like most minors who want the thrill of adult material will check the box and say they are 18 and browse away rather than spend their money (what little they may have) on custom commissions. At least, this is what everyone else did when I was too young for paypal, credit cards and linked bank accounts. Also, I wasn't a jerk and didn't want anyone to get in trouble for my pervy ways. Things may have changed as I have been an adult perv a long while... XD

If you have doubts, I'd say get to know people you can trust who can recommend you to others who are able to buy their own art. I started selling through the Furbuy/ Furbid whatever, auction house websites for furries specifically because they have adult sections and require you to check legal age notices and stuff like that. It's not perfect but it's an extra layer of defense that you were selling specifically TO adults on a site that very explicitly states FOR ADULTS ONLY.

From a NSFW buyer.

[sukidieyo.livejournal.com]

Often I find that sellers will write a warning saying something along the lines of "seller is not responsible for buyer lying about their age, adults only". Not exactly like that, but still, it makes it apparent that if a kid tries to be slick, the artist is not responsible.

There is probably no way to actually tell how old a costumer is, online, unfortunately. Just stay as safe as you can, while selling, and make sure to have some buyers' guidelines set up, maybe?