Artist Beware: randombelle and jl2154

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

WHO:
Commissioner: Randombelle
FA: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/randombelle // DA: http://bellybumdrum.deviantart.com/
Payee: jl2154
FA: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/jl2154 // DA: http://jl2154.deviantart.com/

WHERE: Accounts listed above, primary contact through FA notes and Skype

WHAT: 2 Charge backs on 2 completed commissions (DEC)
3rd Charge back from account again on FEB 19th 2015

The commissions:
Posted to my account:
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/15037546/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/14910780/

Posted to their account:
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/14913048/
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/15040324/

WHEN: NOV 2014 - FEB 20th 2015

PROOF:
Chat logs when charge backs happened and our agreement for repayment:
http://pika-commissions.weebly.com/chargebacks.html

Paypal logs of chargebacks:
http://pika-commissions.weebly.com/chargebacks.html

Sorry they aren't in perfect order, i went through my paypal account and screen capped all pertaining to the email address. Note that there are 3 separate transactions.

Link to journals where i simply state because of charge backs from people using a 3rd party account i will no longer do business with persons who do not have their own Paypal account: http://fav.me/d8ir5et

Chat logs between us on FA and DA:
http://pika-commissions.weebly.com/chargebacks.html

EXPLAIN: I received the original two charge backs on December 8th 2014 from the paypal address of the boyfriend, jl2154. The girl, Randombelle, was the one who i had most contact with as she was the one who ordered the commission.
We agreed on the commission and i sent an invoice to jl2154, for the amount agreed upon. My paypal account is a verified business account and i only conduct business through my invoices, never allowing people to send money directly to me. My invoice states my terms of service and policy, meaning he has to accept them if he is paying the invoice, which is a contractual agreement by receiving my invoice and then paying it. The commissions, as listed above, were finished a month prior, in November.
You can see my skype chat logs above where i contact randombelle about the chargeback. She tells me that her boyfriend's account was hacked and had problems with fraudulent charges, which resulted in my invoices being two of the charges that was charged back to his account.
Note that i ask several times for the actual charges to be reversed and i offered that if they did this i would send back the money they gifted me to cover the expenses. I was most concerned with covering the -$90 balance and removing the flags from my account.
The case went uncontested and was closed, so i kept the refunded money they gave me and dropped the issue. Since the issue was closed by paypal i expected that he never went in to cancel the actual charge back.

TD;LR: The first two charge backs for two separate commissions were reimbursed by jl2154, through a separate transaction of money, and not canceling the charge backs on my account. Case closed uncontested and i let the issue drop.
Please note i was never contacted directly by the payee jl2154, i spoke only to his gf Randombelle who assured me the issue was being resolved.

-----

Third charge back was received February 19th 2015. My balance was -$62 as shown in the screenshot galleries above.
I made a journal on both DA and FA, since i have had the problem of people using third parties to pay, that i would no longer be accepting persons paying with a third party and that i wanted ALL transactions to be between me and the commissioner only.
I stated no names but gave a vague description of my current situation and my frustration, as it was late at night and found myself in a similar situation with the same two people as before. Journal is linked above and i will not be taking it down on either site.

I noted Randombelle BEFORE the journal, telling her i had another charge back from her boyfriend's paypal. The journal was not to call her out before i made contact, as i never even mentioned names, only to express my irritation and policy change.
I linked above our notes, with both randombelle and her bf jl2154

I expressed I wanted the charge back reversed and was told it wasn't possible because the account had a history of hacking and Paypal had seized control of it.
From jl2154, as shown and screen shotted above
"I can NOT access that account, it is now controlled by paypal since December.
that's why I have a new account."

screen shot:
http://gyazo.com/d5e5a9f22d33c97ea56c30e45cb981c7

I declined to send an invoice for the owed amount to the new account, as invoices can be charge back on and i wanted to avoid this situation again in the future. I asked that the money i was owed be sent to my paypal address directly if they could not close the claim.

He didn't send directly, instead sent an e-check that took 5 days to clear. And i was nervous of this because i googled it and e-checks can be charge back on in the future, a problem that has been frequent with this person. I didn't want to find myself in the situation again.

I do not believe that the charge back was a result of paypal's error. If what jl2154 says is true and that the account has been frozen by paypal for several months then there should be no charge backs issued from that account. I was inclined to believe the hacking story the first time but the second time, several months later has set off several alarm bells.

His story doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and they avoided questions, only going so far as explaining it all with 'hackings', so i think that neither of them tell the whole truth.

Also i did not appreciate that they told me multiple times not to post to AB
The boyfriend specifically told me in comments (screen capped above)
"You might wanna be careful with the AB thing cuz they could counter saying you didn't contact the actual person paying directly."
Screen cap of his comment and my responses
http://gyazo.com/30c0a5a98ea1cb9639af761ed348f2be
Making it sound like he was trying to pass off blame and responsibility.

TL;DR: This user has a history of 'hackings' to his paypal account and used a security compromised account to send payments, resulting in 3 separate charge backs to my account.
I was reimbursed for the charge backs but ultimately lost $20 to a 'debited charge back fee" from paypal
Which i was told "On occasion, Paypal will take a $20 fee from you for iirc, the case being open at all."
He didn't reversed or resolve any of my charge backs even though they were asked multiple times and told them i didn't want a separate transaction.

I'm not pursuing the $20 fee because the girl already had me blocked after the incident so i just did the same in return to them. To me the $20 isn't worth the headache of dealing with them again. As I couldn't anyways because she blocked me.

In my honest opinion i would avoid these two.

Comments

[mazzy techna (from livejournal.com)]

to be honist I think the hacking is just lies , so many people use that as an excuse over and over again , they are just hoping you would give up. atlest thats how I see it

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

I don't feel it's a whole truth at least, because i was reimbursed through a separate transaction, i will give them credit for that.
I have a couple theories what may have happened but sadly no way to know! It's just very frustrating to have 3 wonderful years of doing commissions to have 3 charge backs happen. I'm not sure if they sort of pile up like strikes against you. That was my main concern as art is my only income, as it is for many artists! I absolutely do not want my paypal suspended or frozen.

I just hope to provide my experience so that others can make their judgements and maybe save themselves the trouble :c

[chaossal.livejournal.com]

The fact that she blocked you says a lot.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

yea idk why, i don't feel like i was particularly mean. It's disappointing tba...we did talk on skype a few times so i thought we were cool.
Her behavior every time we talked about charge backs was always kinda making herself look just as much a victim as me, as you can see above. She always said something like "i'm just as scared as you!" every time we talked. And it was kinda ridic haha...I wasn't scared. I wanted it resolved. >>
Not that it matters but she quickly took me and my gf off her "awesome artist list" on her profile as soon as she could, though my gf never said anything to her. Just goes to show how mature she is i guess!

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

For the record, the two images you linked don't violate PayPal's ToS - they wouldn't be considered porn because there's nothing showing. Even WWII bomber nose art is wilder than the two pieces you made.

A good general rule of thumb would be, could it run, unedited, during normal business hours on regular broadcast TV? Those two images totally could.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

sorry i'm confused >< i never said the images that I for her made were NSFW. It came up in the conversation on skype when Randombelle said that others were effected by the chargeback and her bf commissioned NSFW images, some of those being the ones that got the chargebacks. And i said how he could really get people in trouble cause you can't contest those types of things..
so sorry if there was any confusion

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

I blame my misunderstanding on lack of coffee. Your art, by the bye, is gorgeous :)

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

Bwaha i know the feeling xD it's okay these things are always so much reading it's hard sometimes to catch details and misunderstand @ w @
and ty ;v; i appreciate it!

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

That's weird, I did a few commissions for them (jl2154) back in like 2013 and they never did a chargeback on me. :C I really hope it's just a misunderstanding.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

Well i'm glad that your experience was a pleasant one! The misunderstanding seems to lie with his credit card company or bank. I'm just letting other people know that this user's account sends charge backs frequently. Regardless of reasoning because it doesn't seem clear to them either. Sort of a better safe than sorry!

mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Whoops. Looks like my original comment didn't go through when my internet went kaput.

This is a little long and needs an LJ cut.
http://www.livejournal.com/support/faq/75.html

Re: mod comment

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

Added! Thanks for your patience LJ is very foreign to me lol

[bellybumdrum.livejournal.com]

Hello, I would like to say that I did not block you on FA, where I am most active. There is a newer journal from jl2154 explaining the situation further (after making the necessary calls and finding out what had happened.)

Seeing as we're both blocked on FA, I've provided a screenshot for you here: http://gyazo.com/95bf05776ec0838998710fe5338b796a

It was never my intention to ''play the victim''. I hoped you would understand that this was rather out of our hands as well.

You stated that you were ''Very upset'' and ''Didn't want to sugarcoat it'' So I was trying to level with you, if anything; as well as make it clear to you that I understood your worries, in an attempt to calm you down, for they were our worries just as well. (We basically ended up paying twice for these commissions, thanks to Paypal.)

I apologize for any misunderstandings and the issue as a whole. It was always our intention from the very beginning to get this issue fixed and get the funds back to you.

Thank you for your time.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

Well I'm pretty sure Paypal doesn't isssue chargebacks, but credit card companies do. Jl2154 should speak to his credit card carrier.

[ashleyvsdestiny.livejournal.com]

PayPal most certainly does not engage in 'Random Charge Backs', there's a rhyme and reason to every charge back, be it fraud, insufficient funds, or on request by one of the involved users.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

It doesn't make anyone feel better when they are trying to solve something and you try to bring the focus on you. Because no, you weren't as stressed about it as me honestly. It was never your money paying for the commission so how could you be :/
And you did block me on DA. It's very easy to tell because all the tabs to interact were gone. FA isn't so easy to tell. So why would I think that you blocked me on DA but not FA as well? When I saw i was blocked at all I knew that you wouldn't be reasoned with so avoided contacting you on FA. I respect the fact if someone wants to block and not talk to me. But it works both ways...
I don't see the purpose of blocking me on a site you don't use often as you say and not FA. How was I supposed to know when I saw this?

(frozen)

[liptonfa.livejournal.com]

"you weren't as stressed about it as me honestly."
How do you know that?

"How was I supposed to know when I saw this?"
You could easily try it? That is like 1 min of work


If jl wanted so scam someone he wouldn't pay it immediately back, he is quite "popular" and has to loose a reputation. It happened also to a good friend (who is also an artist), that was even more money but he paid it immediately back (so he literally paid twice for it) and she didn't started a drama journal about it.

And I'm a commissioner too, also I had a random Paypal chargeback 5 months ago and I still don't have a clue why it happened. Never had a problem with an artist, at least I didn't started it, mostly the artists tried to fuck with me and ran away and stuff...

(frozen)

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

I get that your defending your friend, but honestly Lipton.
Your the one who went on my journal and made it a 'Drama Journal" by white knighting. No one ever attacked her. And it wasn't my intention. If it was I would have said names.

I never said their names privately or otherwise.
They came out and said it themselves on my journal. I admitted they paid me back. That's not the issue here. The issue is it keeps happening and he didn't remove the charge back so I got hit with a $20 fee for the charge back that he didn't reverse.
Randombelle made me feel like I couldn't contact her anymore because she blocked me. So I just left it be and had to take the fee.
I thought I could settle it privately but next time I know better. I will be contacted and disputing charge backs with paypal only.

(frozen)

[liptonfa.livejournal.com]

I didn't started any drama, I just answered normally.

I have artist and commissioner friends, so I know both sides. I just mentioned that it's a shit situation for both sides. You have stress but they have also stress with the PayPal stuff. We all know that PayPal isn't that good when it's about digital art.

The situation was shit no question but it seems either the bank or PayPal is making problems but he paid it instantly back to all the peoples, so they aren't scammer.

The point which bothers me is that you say you have the most stress, how do you know hat? He has to talk with the Bank, PayPal, you and all that stuff. So I would say they have more stress than you.

(frozen) MOD COMMENT

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Alright, this argument about who has the most stress is pretty ridiculous, so I'm shutting this down. Take it to PMs if you must.

[n.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to see this was finally posted up.
I remember you mentioning that your friend was also affected by these individuals with their 'random chargebacks', have you mentioned that they too should make their own beware for their situation?

Because they can swear up and down that it was all an accident, but you weren't the only one that got shafted by these two.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

I don't think she will because it was for an adopt one time. But it happened when my first charge backs occurred. She did get reimbursed c:

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

Worst case scenario, you get another charge back and if it does happen just repost the art up with a big, red unpaid on ti and you can get it removed from any other accounts.
That's a worst case scenario, though.
I hope it's all done and over with and that you never have to deal with any charge back issues again, they can be devastating to artists.

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I've had pretty good luck so far. Here's hoping this is my first and last with charge back issues!

[jansither.livejournal.com]

I can't believe the nerve of her to come in here and post about it. You have substantial proof and I don't know how they could not be at fault here. This is a ridiculous case. "Hacked"... I have heard that far too many times. :P

[pikaapaws.livejournal.com]

I'm just kinda upset how it was handled I guess! And the fee wasn't a nice surprise.
The fact that so many charge backs happen in a 3-4 month period should signal them to stop buying art until they get everything sorted out on their end 100%. Also it's great they are refunding everyone but I think they should have reversed the charge backs themselves! Then there would be no fees for any one involved and they wouldn't have to pay twice as they said they have >

[kazeno-taka.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why people do payment reversals through Paypal and then claim they got 'hacked'. If someone hacked your Paypal, why in the world would they reverse a random payment? What do they have to gain from that?

[runspotter.livejournal.com]

Thank you, you took the words right out of my mouth. I can personally say that if someone is going to hack your paypal, chances are they'd do a heck of a lot more damage than that. A hacker reversing one payment makes no sense because it wouldn't really benefit them.

[spytdragonfyre.livejournal.com]

Only thing I could think of is if the hacker reversed all possible payments and then withdrew all the funds in the PayPal, but that seems like a lot of work.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

A hacker reverses payments, then withdraws all of the funds created through the reversals.

It does happen sometimes...just nowhere near as often as people claim.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

That's strange though. I've filed legitimate chargebacks before, and it always took a few days for me to see any funds out of it.

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

I only had to reserve a charge on paypal once, but had the money back within a few hours. It was an eBay purchase though; I don't know if that may be a factor.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah I did an ebay one, but it took a few days. I guess if one hacked an account they'd just reverse as many and see what they could snag before the owner figured it out.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

i once had an unauthorized payment made, two times for suspicious stuff and had the payments reversed within the hour of calling paypal, it just sorta sometimes depends i guess?

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it seems to vary. I'm sure Celestina is right that a hacker would just reverse any and everything, then withdraw as much as possible before being found out.

Paypal hacking does happen - I just don't think it happens anywhere near as often as people claim.

[maxx attax (from livejournal.com)]

Actually, I think it's that if someone is hacked, and then reports it, the payment carrier may reverse all suspicious charges? But Paypal doesn't do chargebacks, credit card companies do.

[smokey-incense.livejournal.com]

The whole things wreaks of suspicious and blocking you seems entirely uncalled for. Plus it only worsens the appearance of guilt.