Artist Beware: thelxlbloodlxlprince/ blood~

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

WHO: thelxlbloodlxlprince/ blood~

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thelxlbloodlxlprince and/or http://www.furaffinity.net/user/blood~

WHAT: I was supposed to recieve a custom male of his kitkin species.
Here is the original post for the auction: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/orlqmmytmkbgrgt/Auction1.png?dl=0
Can also still be seen in his scraps here: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13468092/

Here is my winning bid: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/24bn0ckcj34oqzt/Winning%20the%20auction.png?dl=0
Which can also be seen in the above link to the auction itself.

WHEN: It has been almost 11 months since I won the auction. The official date payment was sent via Paypal on: May 22, 2014.

EXPLAIN: Roughly 11 months ago I purchased a custom kitkin from Blood through one of his auctions. I have yet to receive this kitkin, nor have I even seen a single WIP for my purchase. I have attempted to contact him several times, on a weekly basis to get some form of update. Here are several screenshots of our various conversations, they are mild on my end for the most part because I don't like confrontation and have been trying to be understanding and patient:

First note trying to find time to work on the custom- https://dl.dropbox.com/s/i0okwvf5dwfzaug/Note~1.png?dl=0
I sympathize with his situation, offer assistance, and ask about my custom: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2195dvtdc78pg1l/Note~3.png?dl=0
Here I am in month 4 of waiting asking if we can work on the custom: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/snhat8kyjpzfzky/Note~4.png?dl=0
That time never came, again, trying to be patient and understanding, I waited a while to press again. Here is his response to my concerns: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/nnqt2qke5ps013m/Note~6.png?dl=0
When still I had no custom and no WIPs to go with, I reached a few weeks after that, his next response: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/m8m91y0xda8wnnt/Note~7.png?dl=0
Endlessly bogged down by excuses or attempts to make me feel bad for pushing: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/nj3yird4adllqd9/more%20crap.jpg?dl=0
The tarot reading I am referring to is: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/8q8s7fiydxqu0bv/tarotjournal.png?dl=0

Below are the back and forth from skype: (They are posted in the correct order)
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/s99gnu4kbemthi8/Blood7.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/3sjbym11attj127/Blood6.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/46n764ceg6hp6o7/Blood5.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/yj8p9y1bu5ltinj/Blood4.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/oerqzedatpiffdq/Blood3.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/khhxnfpbe9jrmj1/Blood2.png?dl=0
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/b29ebnk6l1kcrun/Blood1.png?dl=0

The art total is now over 166 pieces between his 2 accounts that he has made since after I had won my auction.
Here is proof that he CAN get art out quickly regardless of his excuses and delays:
Here he posts a group of adoptables (just a few weeks ago): http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15926479/
Those who AB got a special additional drawing. Here he is finishing one of those said drawings one week later: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/15998643/

Blood continues to accept commissions and stream slots through journals. He has yet to reply to my last note regarding any of this which was sent over a month ago.

Comments

[rueq.livejournal.com]

Out of curiosity, did you read his TOS for Kitkins before the auction? Because there is something in there that would definitely stop me from purchasing one. It's not linked on his pages, you have to go through his journals to find it.

"If you make/commission art of them, you/the artist must put this in the description of each image as well.
IF YOU DO NOT, you lose claim to your Kitkin, get no refund, and I will happily resell them. Reselling your Kitkin is forbidden.
By purchasing a Kitkin you agree to this.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. IF YOU GET/MAKE ART OF YOUR KITKIN AND YOU/THE ARTIST DON'T PUT THE PROPER CREDIT, YOU LOSE IT.
THIS MEANS IF THE ARTIST YOU COMMISSIONED DOESN'T PUT IT TOO, YOU LOSE YOUR KITKIN. NO MORE REMINDERS, I'M JUST GUNNA RESELL EM. I'm tired of this happening."

Honestly, this is one of the shadiest things i've read in a TOS. I'm pretty sure he can't do this?

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

There is no protection for designs or one-off characters, so technically he can't. You could run off with every creature he's ever made into the sunset and legally there's not much he can do.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

hah.. i'm the hidden comment on that journal, i let them know that's stealing and they can get in trouble for it/nothing about this tos is supported by any kind of law. i also told them they should have this tos out in the open so people can know what their 'terms' even are.

but ofc they hid it :V how this person gets business i'll never know. everything about them feels like a huge red flag.

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

I was very new, so I didn't see anything wrong with that at the time becaues I always give proper credit to begin with.

Looking back on it, it does seem criminal.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

I see he asks for Paypal payments to be marked as gift as well. :/

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

Yes, and I will never do that again. All transactions will be sent as services and I will have a timeline to have art completed. If the artist cannot get the work done within 3 months, I wont commission them, or I will wait until they have less in their queue.

[squeakstorm.livejournal.com]

I've been watching this person for several months out of pure curiosity and every time he posts a journal asking for more money, and seeing more people throw it at him, it makes me so sick as he rarely ever seems to deliver. Yesterday he posted a journal asking for $1111 and offering 34 hours of artslave time in return. I see the journal is gone now, but there were several people expressing interest in his offer, so I'm guessing he got an actual taker.

Also, based on this comment of his...

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/16129606/#cid:94409773

I think he's asking his commissioners to paypal him via the "gift" option? Doesn't that bypass the fees and make it difficult to dispute? Apologies if I'm wrong about that.

EDIT: I removed a paragraph that spoke more of my personal distaste for this artist than the issue at hand. I also didn't have links to back up what I was saying and don't have the time to go digging for them right now, and thought it best to just remove the paragraph altogether.

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

You are correct. Sending the money as a gift bypasses the fees, and leaves the sender unable to dispute those charges.

[mazz.livejournal.com]

"Here is proof that he CAN get art out quickly regardless of his excuses and delays:" there's no link after that sentence.

Wow so many red flags with this user. I hope you can get your money back, especially with that "warning" by the first commenter from his TOS.. that's just... wow.

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

My apologies, I had to edit this entry several times, and must have forgot to put the link back after I fixed it.

As for the refund, his ToS states, and he has told me, that he does not give refunds at all, ever.

It is also now difficult to get in touch with him as he has blocked me some time in the last month after I sent him a message.

[rai-say.livejournal.com]

Sonataetal isn't a thing anymore. I'd had a hunch from the beginning that she was a pre-existing user.

If you go to her page now, she confirms in a recent journal that she is www.furaffinity.net/user/goddessbeat

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I've seen several artists who can produce artwork pretty fast but still flub their customers and it just baffles me what on why they even do that??

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. I have proof that the artist can get work produced quickly. He never explained to me why I was left to wait for so long with absolutely no results or progress.

[chaossal.livejournal.com]

That is very disappointing been watching them a long time on both accounts but just unwatched.

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

They were one of the first artists I ever watched. I was so patient because I love his species and wanted it so bad, but it was just a terrible experience.

[monoxdragon (from livejournal.com)]

This is really disappointing :/ I'm so sorry this happened to you.
I had an issue with them where they accepted my commission for a custom Kitkin as well but then ended up cancelling it because I didn't send a payment, even though I was never given an address to send it to. So I guess that was a bullet dodged haha.

Man, this does make me hesitant on what to do myself though. I own a Kitkin and a Bloodnaga from them, but to be quite fair this entire thing, especially the blocking part, makes me super iffy on keeping the characters at all...

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

Just be sure to read his full ToS. As someone else mentioned above Blood "claims" the right to take back your Kitkin and resell it if you don't properly put in the descriptions and all this other stuff.

I'm glad you did not have to suffer through this type of situation.

[rai-say.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I'm in a similar boat to you, OP- and it's infinitely frustrating.

My husband had won an auction from Blood... I think about a year ago? I honestly don't remember the details because I didn't have anything to do with it really, but I wanna say around April of 2014? Maybe earlier?

Anyway. Husband got to the point where he was kinda fed up and did basically the same thing- asked for a refund. Of course, Blood doesn't give refunds. We came to the agreement that he would "upgrade the piece" for all the delay- so far, we've seen ONE sketch of it. According to a recent note, Blood has apparently put flats on it- but we haven't seen the proof yet.




At this point I'm kinda getting irritated. I got a stream slot from him a couple days ago, and while I'm actually fairly pleased with the work (it really does look good) I still have NOT gotten the full-resolution file.

A while back, he brought on a secretary (see my comment above) but I think either a)Blood brought her on because they're "friends" or b)She pushed Blood into bringing her on. She clearly has no fucking clue how to be a secretary- she asked for everyone to get into contact with her and provide her with whatever information there was regarding their commission (i.e. Piece commissioned, Date commissioned, price paid, etc.) and THEN she decided to set up a schedule.

Only problem with that (and the reason why I say she has no idea how to be a secretary and I honestly feel like she was hopping onto Blood's coat-tails for some kind of artistic gain) is that... she didn't bother to even ASK what times people were available. She basically just threw out a schedule and *TOLD* them what their times were- and if they couldn't show up that was basically too bad.




Honestly, it kinda is a bummer though. I do like Blood's art- and back before he made some dumb life choices, his turnaround time was pretty good. Hopefully he pulls his head back up and gets things back on track, because this is kinda ridiculous.

[lady-toorima.livejournal.com]

I waited for that time patiently to come, and it simply never did. In the entire year I gave him the details of my desired custom 3 times, and have never even been given a WIP or a sketch.

Blood no doubt does great work, which is why I love his kitkins so much, but it's just the pic-and-choose routine that he is doing. There is no queue to tell people where they are or how much of their work is done.

He was able to get a colored sketch done for one person in a week after they auto-bought one of his adoptables. And this was only about a month or two ago. So he CAN get work done in a relatively quick time frame. Just for some reason he never bothered with mine.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I would still consider contacting Paypal. It happens very rarely, but if you explain that he's been selling and telling his clients to pay as friends they may be able to help and reverse the payment. If you paid through your bank you may also be able to seek recourse.

But either way it still may be worthwhile to you as a client to show Paypal how they've been asking for payments as gifts to ensure clients can't chargeback when he won't deliver.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

Don't Paypal take that kind of thing really seriously? I thought that accounts got suspended/banned for asking for payments to be fraudulently marked as gifts since that's basically dodging their fees. OP might not get their refund, but hopefully this guy'll get his account suspended at least. Everything about this artist is a giant red flag.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

He can 'claim' them back all he wants, you can still keep using it regardless.

From another comment here:
let them know that's stealing and they can get in trouble for it/nothing about this tos is supported by any kind of law.

Okay I just want to say that the law doesn't protect individual character designs. The only way to protect a single character is through trademark- but that must be approved by a trade board and proven that their could be confusion over business identification, it's also expensive and usually must be renewed annually.
Copyright is for a body of work, not individual characters within that work unless as protection for the body as a whole.

Nothing in his TOS regarding character adoption is legally relevant, because the law doesn't protect individual characters.

When you 'buy' an adoptable you buy nothing, nada, zip. They can sell that same character to a hundred people. You could take and use it for nothing.
The only 'protection' is morals of buyer and seller. That's a risky thing to trust in business where real money is concerned.

FA has made an on-site rule to protect characters from being 'stolen' and used; however this does nothing to protect your money. They can kick the offender off their site, but this proprietary clause in their TOS doesn't mean there's any legal protection.

So I really, REALLY think people need to go in eyes wide open when you buy adoptables that you are doing business outside of any legal protection. That's bad news.

Now with that said: I've actually talked this over with a couple of currently-before-the-bar business lawyers, guys who do a lot of contract stuff. I was wondering if there is some protection for the buyer because it's a 'business' deal with money exchanging so there must be some recourse- the consensus is that you're doing business outside the protection of the law and so no recourse. :/

Honestly 'adoptables" are a hot button for me, I really think exchanging designs for money should be disallowed on FA. The buyer has NO protection.
That's unfair.
I know a lot of artists are moral with how they run the adoptable side of their business but that doesn't replace legal protection when looking at the practice as a whole.

Also people with ridiculous TOS terms regarding the designs they make and how they can rip them out from others but still keep the money. NO. No, no, no. Even if characters did have legal protection, and they do in a makeshift way within the confines of FurAffinty at least, these terms would be unreasonable to the millionth degree. You can't take a product back or revoke ownership because you don't like how the owner deals with it. This applies to dogs to chairs to food. You can't keep the money and take back the steak as a butcher because you think steak should be rare and the purchasers cooks it well done.
Same as dog breeding. You can sell with a non-breeding "contract", but you can't actually sue or take the dog back if the person chooses to breed. Property ownership doesn't come with a 'but you can't do this with it'.
(at least from a tort/damages law perspective, breaking criminal law is a different, of course but even if someone abuses a dog they bought that doesn't mean the breeder automatically takes the animal back)

Adoptables just make me pull my hair. It's a contract mess.
Personally, I'd avoid it like the plague.
(with apologies to the artists who act professionally and ethically with their adoptables, I'm sorry but the buyer is just in such a vulnerable spot I would never recommend anyone buy one.)

[intj-reflection.livejournal.com]

Thank you for saying exactly what I think about adoptables and why.

Anyone going into a purchase of an adoptable design needs to understand that there is no legal standing for the transaction.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

I also just noticed their TOS (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1571874/) links to their 'justification' for the no-refund policy (http://d.facdn.net/art/thelxlbloodlxlprince/1398710211.thelxlbloodlxlprince_no_refunds.jpg). They're outright admitting that they spend commission money before doing the work. This is one of those cases where I'm really glad Paypal extended the deadline for chargebacks... though it wouldn't help if the artist is getting commissioners to send money as gifts.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

So they admit they are an outright thief.
Please PLEASE people need to black list this person.

It's like a perfect storm of bad business right here.

[tock-fast.livejournal.com]

I was watching this artist almost a year ago, when they were working on one shot comics with another artist (that seemed to go nowhere... the red flags seen here, maybe is why.)

I stopped watching them after they posted a journal complaining about people who made them fan art. Saying that if they couldn't draw his character well/correct, to not bother drawing it at all, because it made him mad and disgusted.

The ego on that one alone, coupled with the way he treated his fans is what made me unwatch. I think I was watching for a little over a week before that and other such behavior turned me off.

Hope all goes well for you OP!

[rueq.livejournal.com]

He put you on a list here but I think you need to contact him to give him details (again) because there isn't a tick next to your name - http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6687971/

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

I wonder how OP can since the artist has blocked her.

[noxatrum.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone! I'm a friend of Blood's and I've offered to help him manage his queue and schedule. I've set up an account specifically FOR managing this so that it's neat and orderly in one place. He's linked me in his queue, but I wanted to come here and let people know as well.

If anyone has questions or concerns and is a commissioner, you can direct them [or your commission details if needed] here: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/raketh./

I also wanted to let the mods know that there have been several people who do not watch him and who we have never seen before who were commenting on things after this went up. He's since deleted the journal it happened on but I felt it was still important to let you know.

I'm not here to debate the A_B or discuss it at all, so I likely won't post anything else here - I just wanted to get that link out there so people know to contact me. =)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

If Blood gets any harassment that can be clearly linked to someone from this community, tell him to take screenshots (we need proof, there's little we can do with 'some people commented on a now deleted journal')and we'll do the best we can. Unfortunately, sometimes people make blank accounts just to do stuff like that and try to get around our rules and since we have no jurisdiction over FA itself, there's little we can do. He should open trouble tickets in those cases.

[ravensmoon666.livejournal.com]

Oh no... I'm personally waiting on four commissions from him with no updates as well. A custom kitkin, a blood naga REF sheet, a two character sketch and A one character sketch. He has a habit of taking about 5 in stream commissions doing one and sketching another before going "brb" for an hour before the stream randomly ends. He's done this mutiple timee in stream that I've been in there and I'm starting to worry. He seems like a normally nicebguy but if he's doing this I'm scared I'll never see my art. Shoukd I write a beware too?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

We typically prefer people attempt to resolve the matter before writing a beware, so I recommend contacting the user above that says they are Blood's manager and seeing what you can do first.

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

Can anyone tell me why are there deleted comments on this beware?

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Without sifting through my email, it could be a simple account deletion

[raisindust.livejournal.com]

Hey, I know you hate to do it, but I'm very glad you posted this here because it really needed to be done. I'm a moderator of Wtf_FA and I contacted you way back when he posted the journal about tarot readings, suggesting you here and offering my apologies for this criminal's behavior. It's for the greater good and this beware really needed to be a thing that existed!!

I just cannot believe the nerve of this fellow. I wonder if it'd be possible to get him banned from the site for his level of scammery? I've heard of it happening before.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Not likely. FA doesn't care about any one's financial issues aside their own.

[loopsabertooth.livejournal.com]

As much as he's been inconsistent with finishing work, he's also currently living off the grid and doesn't get a solid internet connection very often.

[raisindust.livejournal.com]

I had reported him to Fur Affinity for being a known scammer and got this in reply. Admittedly it's not SUPER helpful for me ( being a third party and therefore not able to take part ) but I'll post it here for those involved and for those who may need the help in the future::;

Good day!

Please allow me to apologize for the length of time it has taken for a staff member to answer your ticket. We have brought on more staff and are doing our best to reduce wait times and eliminate ticket backlog. As part of that effort, I am personally addressing all issues involving the topic of Scamming and Theft at this time. In order to best assist you, please verify the following:

1. Is this still an issue?

If yes, please verify the information you have provided is still valid and provide me with any additional information that may be important to your case.


2. Are you the person who has been scammed or had content stolen?

If no, then please understand that Fur Affinity does not handle third-party reports, unless you are an authorized, legal representative of the user affected. It is likely that a user who has been affected has submitted a Trouble Ticket on their own behalf if they are seeking assistance.


*******


Once we have established that your issue is still current and that you are the victim, here is what Fur Affinity can and cannot do in these situations:

Fur Affinity does not mediate business disputes unless it involves mass scamming; however, we make notes of each reported dispute. When the number of disputes reaches our threshold, then we open an investigation.

When the investigation is opened, we reach out to all of the users who reported a dispute against the accused to verify information is still current and relevant. Then, an Administrator will contact the accused used with the evidence provided and start a mediation process.

We cannot guarantee that you will be compensated for any losses and we cannot force users to compensate you as we have no control over these users nor their assets. However, users that we find to be guilty of scamming or reluctant to reimburse or finish agreements may have their accounts banned and their access to Fur Affinity revoked.


*******

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

He's now announced he's taking a hiatus due to 'drama', so it looks like the people he owes art to will be waiting even longer now.