(no subject)

[paka.livejournal.com]

Hi.

I wanted to comment and ask your advice about my interaction with Kora. Her FA page is at http://www.furaffinity.net/user/kora/.

In mid-February she asked to comission me for a four page comic, based on the prices I had listed in my FA account. Since I wanted to come across as a nice guy and not shoot down someone's hopes of getting a comic, I initially tried to negotiate things. Since she pointed out the old and inaccurate prices I felt obliged to honor them. I agreed to do it for 'way less than I probably should have been charging. I also failed to ask for any deposit up front. Total payment would have been $15/page, or $60 had I completed the project.

During the past four months or so, she contacted me after I posted my own stuff to FA. When I presented her with four pages of tightened pencils, she requested some minor changes and one major change to p 3 (she did not make it entirely clear what exactly she wanted, and initially I thought I might have to change pp 3-4). She also turned down the revised rough for p 3, although she clarified what she wanted. I'd asked for more money to reflect the rework and she said she could throw $10 at me for it; no more, no less.

On May 24-26, she really started sending me notes. Initially she asked to cancel the project, and I confirmed that. Then she wrote to me that she was extremely offended that I had not asked to continue the project and that she considered that to be a lack of caring on my part. Then she offered me $5/page for my work so far, and I refused, partly because I felt that was a total ripoff and partly because I did not want further contact with her. (Again, she had not been charged anything at that point. I've never been paid anything for this commission).

Then someone - either her or as she claimed someone whom she'd shown the roughs - posted all four pages to FChan.

Then, in a public FA journal post, she accused me of not caring about the project, of never being in contact with her (which I consider untrue), of whining about money (I believe she was getting the bargain of the year) and of not promptly getting things done for her (again, this was basically four months; I've been told that many prepaid commissions take much longer, and have even less customer contact).

I understand that I basically brought myself a lot of this grief by not charging more and not insisting on pre-payment, and I feel bad about that, but I also feel that working with her was annoying and quickly became a real nightmare. Because she posted about me that publically in FA, I feel justified in posting about her publically here. I don't feel that her insulting, accusatory and passive-aggressive attitudes had anything to do with my doing the job (in fact, it really destroyed my interest in working on it), and I really don't appreciate the work involved in scrubbing my stuff off FChan.

Comments

[plushabilities.livejournal.com]

Wait, she canceled, and was offended that you agreed to let her?

That doesn't even make remote sense.

Also, the price she was supposed to pay was very, very low IMO. I don't see any reason for the complaints.

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I agree. If someone cancels they have zero right to be offended if you say 'Thank you very much' and go onto other things.

[hamburger.livejournal.com]

On May 24-26, she really started sending me notes. Initially she asked to cancel the project, and I confirmed that. Then she wrote to me that she was extremely offended that I had not asked to continue the project and that she considered that to be a lack of caring on my part.

Oh, wow. That right there is a huuuuge red flag.

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

That right there is what I like to call a 'relationship headgame'. Specifically, "If You Love It, Set It Free", which is played out pretty much how it sounds like.

... it is NOT something you pull with a commission. Hell, if I were in that same situation I'd consider it rude to argue with a client as it'd be a sign of desperation on my part.

[white-tean.livejournal.com]

To reiterate the gobsmack of the others:

She cancelled the project and then got offended by you not asking to continue the project?

If she's so unenthused as to cancel, why does she think anyone other than herself would be *more* enthused. Does she think her idea/brief/request was simply *that* brilliant?

Geez. I've known people like this, and they *really* bug me.

Also, $15 a page? That's like nothing!

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

Some peopel think their ideas are the bestest in the world, and that you should feel HONORED, damn HONORED to work on their ideas...

So, when he didn't fight to work on her artwork, she took it as on offense that her idea wasn't SO WONDERFUL that he'd want to work on it....

Yeah, I've had that happen too...

[achondrite.livejournal.com]

That's odd O_o I'm actually doing some work for Kora as well right now (a comic and one of my ink-deals). She seems very nice and eager to work with me to make the peices come out to where we're both happy with it... and seems pretty sane as well! In fact, so far, she has been outright enjoyable to work with! Maybe what happened between you guys was a miscommunication issue or something like that... after all, some people can be the best workers or the best commissioners, but end up having a bad experience.

I know that she did take my prices from my journal for 20 flat out to mean flat color, and tried to barter a price for some colors based on that before deciding on the comics, and I've never had someone barter before, but she was very polite about it oO

[plushabilities.livejournal.com]

Maybe she learned from her experience?

Even the suckiest customers have their good moments. Especially if they lose out on something because of their suckyness.

[wishingponastar.livejournal.com]

What's funny is if you read through the comments on her journal entry where-in she bashes the hell out of you, Kora, she thinks you are an art-slave, and the instant your own life, your own wants come into play, you're a bad bad artist, and should have no life what-so-ever.

One thing I wish all these commissioners would understand, is this. We as artists, have lives, and when something comes up, we're not going to drop everything for your art to be finished, specially if somethings stressing us out at home.

You made 80+ something posts of art within the four months, so she says, and if so, really it's no big deal. I can agree to some personal art, after all, you should be allowed as much. The number is not what matters, what matters is you're a human, just like the rest of us.

Not a fucking art-slave.

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

XD

I have commissions of my own to tend to ( over 40 pages worth ). I understand people have lives, but I at least expect the common courtesy of having my messages replied to rather than ignored, something Leu here forgot to mention.

[xianjaguar.livejournal.com]

Ugh.
After reading her journal, and seeing your side of the story, and with the knowledge that she paid NO money down whatsoever, I see that you sir, really got walked on.

I can't believe she had the gall to whine when she didn't even put any money down, not even a small good-faith deposit.
You really should have asked for a deposit up front, but yeah, you know that now.

Sorry you had to deal with such an awful commissioner. :/

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

Hum...*taps her chin* if I'm awful, then why would I offer money for the provided sketches even after the commission fell through?

[digivolution.livejournal.com]

What a hypocrite. Sorry you had to deal with an ungrateful person :/

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Blah, that's silly. I read both entries and feel like she completely took advantage of you.

[fix-the-spade.livejournal.com]

Have you kept any of your notes/emails?

Since both of you are claiming to be saints, it would be nice to see what was actually said and who's done what.

[fix-the-spade.livejournal.com]

Although on balance, it looks like she's ripped you.

[lastres0rt.livejournal.com]

And all this aside, posting the incomplete, not-even-paid-for commission on FCHAN?!

>_< What nerve... Even if she didn't do it, I bet it was a ploy to try and guilt you into continuing or somethin'.

[sunhawk.livejournal.com]

My favourite part of her journal was the response:"The pages were not free since I spent time and hopes on you just for you to flush it down the drain. "

TIME AND HOPES! *LOL* Man I hate draining my hope account dry like that!

It sounds like you need a pre-set explanation of your redraw policies to avoid this in the future. It can be difficult mid-stream to ask customers for more money for redraws, it can come across as blackmail. But I don't blame you for stopping the commission when the commissioner told you to quit. It looks like that was an attempt to guilt-trip you into finishing it, obviously she's mad it failed.

[wyna-hiros.livejournal.com]

That killed me.

No, the pages ARE free. As a commissioner, it looks like Kora didn't spend any time or effort making the pieces, and apparently, didn't pay a single cent for it.

So yeah, Kora, you got off scott-free.

[pinkpuppybelly.livejournal.com]

I now know to avoid this person. :3

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

Whee! I love drama! Well...actually, I don't

Anyway, say what you want, it won't change anything. Diving in the whole "He said, she said" business can be tricky, so be careful on who you trust. I have plenty of other artists to back me up that I'm extremely reasonable and generous to the people I'm doing business with.

All in all, it simply broke down to miscommunication, be it on his part or mine

Also, for those of you that think I "ripped him off", I did not. I offered him pre payment and he declined. After the commission fell through, I offered $20 for the sketches where it was $60 for the inks, and the $10 offer for his rough sketch was still standing...which would have brought the sum up to $30 for the sketches.

Yep...I ripped him off alright, ripped him off by offering to pay then being turned down on both my offers

*shrugs*

[be-prepared.livejournal.com]

Most people who say that they don't like drama really love it.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Well Kora's definitely being a bit of a dick here, what with being vague about what they want and whining even though they effectively got free art.

But, well, it sounds like you tried to be "honorable" by agreeing to prices you did not like, then treated the deal as a second-rate commission, taking lots of time and not talking to the commissioner much*. Sorry but no wonder Kora got a bit frustrated :/

... then again she hadn't actually paid you anything so she doesn't really have any right to claim "poor customer service" because she isn't a customer!

I guess the point is don't take commissions you feel are too low for you, because in the end it isn't very honorable or fair to either of you.

*I'm a comic artist and yes I know how long comics take, but 4 months for pencils seems a bit much, although I admittedly don't know what your usual speed is nor whether you made it clear what the timeframe was

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

No time frame was given. I asked him to work at his leisure, but still at a reasonable rate. I waited 6 months on my commission from Naga, and we kept regular contact no problem, and it didn't bother me.

What bothered me, on top of being ignored, is the fact that he drew, inked, and even colored some nearly 80 pictures since the commission was planned out. I'm sorry, but even not having paid up front ( which again, was because he declined pre payment ) is ridiculous

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

... WHY was there a cancellation and WHY did the images get all buggered up into bits and put on freaking FCHAN.

These are shenanigans I cannot comprehend and I see the party in question here not answer why those two events occurred, only that there was a _small bit of monetary compensation for work given after pointing out and insisting on OLDER commission prices.

While the latter is 'okay' - it only goes so far.

Screw redraw clauses and the like. Make a 'if you bugger up/cancel/act a dirtbag/treat me unfairly/put my art on a *chan sans my blessing' clause that if they DO any of that - you get to post about them here and they can't 'defend' themselves in a manner that's epically failtastic.

Oh and you throw them an invoice for your time wasted. 60% of the original cost for internet shenanigans sounds perfectly decent to me~

[paka.livejournal.com]

There was a cancellation because she felt I was taking too long and didn't show her stuff enough consideration. That's fair; she was and is very upset at me, which is uncomfortable but that sort of thing happens right? I figured that "I don't want you working on my project" meant "I want you to stop working on my project."

I just wanted to forget about the mess and move on. She did offer me compensation, but I didn't take it partly because it was too low, and partly because I didn't want any further contact with her. When she badmouthed me and the FChan stuff happened, I figured I needed to go join Artists_Beware and post my side of the story, before she showed up and slammed me here.

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

You seem to forget though that despite him wanting post payment...after he pulled the rug

-Yes, he pulled the rug. I asked him if he wanted to continue since he seemed to be busy, and that if he were that busy, I could go to another artist if he wanted...he canceled then and there without courtesy of debate or compromise.-

I offered compensation for his time and efforts. I wanted to see him get something in return for the works he did for me.

He didn't take it

Yes, I understand that he got nothing out of it...but that doesn't mean that nothing was offered.

As such, stop blowing things out of proportion. It is what it is...he didn't keep contact and thus the commission was canceled, I wrote a review, he wrote a complaint, and here we are.

It doesn't have to be more complicated than that, because in reality, it isn't

[frisket17.livejournal.com]

Wow o____o;


Thank you kindly for the warning. I'll be sure to avoid them and pass along my recommendations to not do business with them to artist friends.

I'm stunned that she's causing all this drama when she herself did not pay at all for anything. Offer or not, that low of a pay for sequential art is downright offensive. - especially with the quality of your linework (lovely inking). I'm also just blown away that they try and claim they lost "hopes and dreams". ORLY. What is that in USD?

Seriously. Wow. Good luck in sorting this out. You mentioned you had time-stamped communications from you two, if it persists, I would encourage maybe posting them. Either way, my best of luck to you.

-Mel

[kora-atlass.livejournal.com]

Lol! Go ahead and spread the word.

For one, it won't change the fact that he's the only artist out of all 7 I've dealt with that had a problem with me

Second, your shooting yourself in the foot if you sincerely believe that I'm ungrateful and a rat

Third, not everyone will listen to, or care about this drama scene.

Fourth, even IF the word gets around to 90% of the artist community, I still have my previous artists to go back to...and I would be more than willing

Fifth, if my previous artists back down, I can just go with a new alias.

Knock yourself out champ, I ain't gonna stop you ;)

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the warning, even if I was inclined to ignore your experience, Kora's own behaviour here has quite neatly undermined any chance that I would ever accept her as a customer.

[furinari.livejournal.com]

I'm not taking any sides. It's too early to be analyzing things.

[kestral-kitsune.livejournal.com]

oh boy heres another commissioner that thinks that it should be the artists privilege to work with her. One thing i've figured from this is She canceled and like everyone else whose posted so far, she should accept that fact and not bother asking why you didn't push/plead/beg/whine to continue the contract.

I've had cancellations before and the most is they've asked if I'd be welcome to take them on again later, which i've agreed to because later on they did end up fulfilling their end. She hasn't so you're in the right for not pushing the deal with trying to finish. and the fact that she originally got the deal at a discount price and then went for even lower payment only shows she wasn't that interested in it the first place or was trying to see how cheap you'd work for.

If anything right now I would not take her on as a customer since all i've seen out of this is a childish "BUT IM IN THE RIGHT" behavior that is working against her, and her threat to go under another name? Evasion to credibility questioning.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

You're not supposed to repost if something is removed because the mods might have removed it for a reason.

Furthermore, I find 'your' post to be a pure contradiction in terms, 'you' claim not to take sides yet 'you' lay "most of the problem" at the artists feet. I don't think anyone will be fooled.

[perlandria.livejournal.com]

The artwork was reposted to Fchan, in a different and inaccurate but similar area. I believe it was reposted BEFORE this post was made. And Paka was not aware the artwork had been reposted until someone alerted in around the 2nd.

Very NOT classy (and potentially illegal) of Kora.