Unsure about Pricing Logos and Children's Book Illustrations

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Hello!

Recently, I have been asked for two commissions, and I'm not sure how to handle pricing them. I purchased the Graphic Artist's Guild Handbook, but I can't seem to find a case that relates to the first one. I could be overlooking something, though!

1) Someone has asked for me to draw a logo, a mascot, and 4 pieces of art relating to their business. The 4 pieces are just going to be various electronics on transparent backgrounds. I'm not sure what to quote for a price, so I looked it up online, but I could only find prices just for logos and not for the mascot or the 4 extra pieces. I thought that mascots would fall under logos, but I'm not completely sure about that. All of the art will be used in signs and on their website. What do you think I should charge for this amount of work (logo, mascot, and 4 pictures of art)?

2) I have been asked by an author to draw illustrations for their children's book. I saw something pertaining to this in the handbook, but I'm at a loss because they want 40-50 pictures. I have no idea what to charge for that amount. I received advice that said I should charge a different amount per a page in case the author wants more detailed pictures for some of the pages. I'm going to meet with the client Sunday, so I will update the post with any new information. What would be a good price for a commission this size or what should I charge per a page?

Thank you for your help!

EDIT: Case #1 went through. Case #2 is in limbo. The client decided on 5-6 illustrations and wanted to pay $250 + royalties for the book. I was not sure if that would be a good price for that ammount of art.

Comments

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

I edited the post. If you have any opinions on if $250 + royalties is a good price, then I would love some input!

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Royalties are too much hassle unless it's a big company. Juding by their ridiculously low price they are not big, and you're very unlikely to see substantial payouts on royalties if any. If they can't afford to pay more than a paltry amount per image then they can scale back their project or bring their expectations to more realistic numbers.

[kashidom.livejournal.com]

I'm going to second this, however I'll also add that, seeing how you even consider $250 for your art and time, it does say a few things about your own work and your perceived value for it.

Out of curiosity with this new information I had a quick glance at your off-site gallery (which I won't link to) and saw that you're in for probably work that goes well over your head for a realistic deadline — you're looking at something within tight timeframes and your ranking doesn't look at the professional level (especially in regards to dedication/consistency) to keep up with that kind of a demand without burning yourself out. It simply doesn't seem feasible for you right now.

To be frank, I would strongly recommend you either share the project across artists of similar levels and collaborate as much as you can or cancel this request. If you decide to collaborate, negotiate how you will share the funds and workload and work as a group effort rather than an individual — whoever signs has their name on the line.


Another thing to consider, given this low offer, is that they might not intend to publish your work fairly, as in making more profit off your labour (being a startup/small publisher for example), not being so intent on publishing at all unless the whole thing is already great enough, generally not being super serious and suchlike.

You mention it being "a children's book", which likely means that the value they attach to your stuff is already pretty low compared to industry standards (being in line with your own value for it makes this a real problem) and they might not treat you with the respect a published artist deserves/needs, add to that the entry level inexperience and you have a disaster waiting to happen — they're fairly likely to screw you over sooner, so unless you have a solid contract (which will likely scare them away) it's not really worth the effort seems me, especially since the whole experience is going to be pretty much a learn-the-hard-way-as-you-go ride for you.


Final line on this whole project is: work on your consistency and "artistic stamina" so that you can actually keep up with a large batch of at least similar pieces with a previously established (and very rigid) conceptual style — best is to invent one that differs from your own for the practice. If you're confident that this goes smooth you can attempt something half-serious, such as a donated project or a collaborative effort with a story writer for a non-profit published set, such as a webcomic. That's going to give you a lot more experience and keep things fun for you, compared to this overkill project that may burn you out and will likely make you want to give up on art entirely.

As for price in itself; by the 10th+ piece or so you're probably going to regret the $250 already.

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your input and your concern about the workload! It was a lot, which was why I was concerned about a fair price. Also, getting burned out was also a concern of mine, so I definitely wanted a fair price for something like that (It was essentially a graphic novel at that point), see what deadlines I would be working with, and what kind of art they wanted before I gave them a price.

I'm not sure if you saw the update, but I would not have been doing more than 6 pieces of work. I like to have multiple sources, so I asked other people. I wanted to make sure, because, let's face it, $250 is a low amount for illustrations.
The publisher had charged them a lot to print the book. And, I'll admit, when I heard how disappointed they were I second-guessed myself with their price. Someone advised that, if I thought it was worth it, to give illustrations that weren't going to be as involved. However, I didn't think that putting out work to be published that I wasn't proud of.

As far as content/consistency is concerned, I completely blame myself for not keeping my gallery up to date and not updating regularly. With all of the random updating with out-of-date work being posted along current work and experimenting, that gallery looks all over the place. I neglect to update regularly and have a solid, consistent style. I need to change that. There is always room for improvement.

Being taken advantage of was another thing that bothered me with the price. I am inexperienced in this field when it comes to pricing art. I quickly found out what I should charge vs what people want to pay varies a lot. Even with the book, I lowered the price a lot, because I am new to this.

[kashidom.livejournal.com]

Oh, in that case the price seems fairly reasonable. I personally know an illustrator who offers inks and quick colour work for a similar price per piece (royalties not included) at easily a fivefold of your average level. She's on the low end because her work doesn't sell much, she doesn't have time and she also doesn't offer published illustrations though, because of the hassle, but that's a different matter than creation pricing.

Updating/maintaining your galleries properly might be an effort worth taking up when working professionally, though who am I to speak when I have unstable moods? (I burnt out, nothing is ever the same after that!) Alternatively, you could keep an updated portfolio which avoids the embarrassment of a gallery :P

[cidal-fun.livejournal.com]

You say that they already paid a lot to publish the book, does that mean it's a "vanity-publishing" sort of thing? If so, you should forget about earning much more than they pay you, as vanity-published books rarely sell well. If it is a vanity-published book, it also won't have the same level of recognition for you as the artist that any other type of thing would.

I'd say find out the name of the publishing company and where and how the book will be sold/advertised before you move ahead with anything.

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your input!

I looked up the publisher as soon as I was sent the manuscript, and the company presented itself as a self-publishing press. I tend to lump vanity and self-publishing presses together (they're not necessarily a bad thing, but I wouldn't use one to publish). I was told something similar regarding sales and royalties from a lot of other people, too.

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your advice!
I had a similar feeling, asked around, and got a similar response. For $250, I was told to scale back the detail and probably turn in sketches, which I didn't like the idea of. I wondered if anyone had any similar opinions of doing that, but not a lot of people suggested it.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Your comment "the publisher charged them a lot more" speaks volumes. It's been quite a while for me, so others are free to correct me, but this reeks of self publish. Self publish means put out the money up front and don't even hope for royalties.

[cidal-fun.livejournal.com]

I think you might be thinking of vanity-publishing. My mind jumped there as well, and it's definitely a red-flag for not earning money from royalties. The author may believe their book will be succesful, but realistically they'd be lucky selling 100 copies from a vanity press.

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Yep, it was a vanity publisher. I keep hearing similar things regarding the royalties, too. This post has definitely given me a lot to think about. Thank you for your advice!

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

Mm, the only thing I can think of, instead of turning in full sketches, would be to turn in something like a storyboard* instead, for each page, and perhaps a couple rough sketches of, say, the main characters.

If they've seen your portfolio/galleries, then they already know where your skill level is at.

*I'm talking like, stick figures/doodles. Enough for them to get an idea of poses and such, but not anything they can run away with or use.

[miryhis.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the idea! I'll definitely consider doing that for future projects for the first WIPs.