Scotty_Stripes

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

WHO: Scotty Stripes

WHERE: This occured over email, address can be provided if necessary (rules say not to?)
However FA accounts are: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/scottystripes (old account: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/staar )

WHAT: Fursuit Concept art through www.NeonSlushie.com

WHEN: Commission order was placed October 11th, paid for the 13th, and completed the 25th.
Initial contact was all fairly pleasant, but as soon as the commission was completed, things went sour fast. Customer filed for a chargeback even after I made the requested changes to the artwork.

PROOF: I have included every email that has been exchanged between us.
First Contact/Commission Form: http://i.imgur.com/e9uCjeC.png
A few back & forth emails, all pleasant: http://i.imgur.com/qjnEzyh.png
Commission Completed: http://i.imgur.com/taCvBtB.png
Finished Image: http://i.imgur.com/CN0L6jF.png
*Things go Sour... http://i.imgur.com/TeKRT5V.png
I fix the mistake: http://i.imgur.com/5kFk0L2.png
Customer Files Chargeback: http://i.imgur.com/NiWssCa.png

EXPLAIN:
Everything is pretty self-explanatory through the screenshots, but for those of you who do not feel like reading it all:

Customer, Scotty Stripes, commissions me for a basic reference of their Zebra character. I charge them $80 ($50 base price, +$25 design fee, +$5 extra complexity fee) -  they pay several days later, and the commission is completed on schedule.
Scotty is very unhappy with the outcome (mainly the stripes) and lets me know that. I say it's not a problem and I'm happy to work with them until they are satisfied with the art.
Scotty becomes very hostile and voices that they feel they were scammed. I again tell them I can make the changes so they are happy with it.
I go ahead and fix all the stripes to their specifications, only to find that they filed for a chargeback.
I have tried multiple times to contact them and request they cancel the chargeback but they have not answered me. I feel very wronged here. I am going to be out $80 and many many many hours of work.

I realize that I am not perfect in this situation, they did request more realistic striping than what I initially gave them. However, my job is to make designs that can transfer easily into fursuits and realistic zebra stripes are not something that works well for this. I was more than happy to fix my mistakes, but I feel the treatment I was given in this situation is extremely unfair.

What can I do now? What can I say to paypal to get protection, before that chargeback clears? Last time I had a customer file a chargeback, I lost because my products are digital only and not physical items. Is there anything I can do? I really need advice.

And I really did feel I needed to warn others of Scotty Stripes and their behavior, so other artists and fursuit makers can avoid having this happen to them.

UPDATE: The chargeback did not go through!

"The case [customer name] opened regarding a payment to you has automatically closed because it was not escalated before November 16, 2015. Any funds associated with this payment that may have been on hold is now available."

So the money has been returned to me.

Scotty Stripes has still never contacted me, apologized, or canceled the chargeback, so this beware is still plenty relevant. However I am super happy that my money was not taken from me!

Comments

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Wow he went from zero to 60 in like one second, gosh! That's a beware definitely well warranted.

I do have a suggestion though. While we were reviewing this we couldn't find an explanation of the fees and charges anywhere on your form, nor in the email sent, or on your Terms of Service page. We did eventually find it on the character design page, but a client may not see that right off the bat. I definitely suggest adding that in to avoid people like this in the future.

Edit: Also as for your question about Paypal, I do suggest calling them and explaining the situation to them. Always call Paypal. I am not sure if it's kicked in yet, but digital goods were due to be added to their protection list.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Great suggestion. I will try to make that more clear!
(It is on both my examples page and my character design page! But I can make it more obvious, for sure)

[gatekat.livejournal.com]

Doesn't Paypal have a method to challenge chargebacks?

I know in one case they did help the artist who was scammed this way. It wasn't a return of their money, but the extra fees were dropped. They might help you out.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

They do, but last time this happened to me paypal sided with the customer despite them being clearly in the wrong- simply because my products are digital and not "physical". :(

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Goodness, he got abusive really fast. I admit that I likely would have refunded him by the time it got around to that second letter full of insults and told him the commission was canceled.

I agree with Cel that you need to be more upfront regarding the different prices, but the beware is very much warranted. He was out to hurt you, when all he needed to say was 'Can we redo the stripes?'. There was no need for so much venom!

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

I WAS tempted to refund him but I had already done so much work! Perhaps I could have offered him a partial refund...things I will consider for future situations like this (heaven forbid!)

[sacch.livejournal.com]

Wowwwww those comments in response. That's not critique, some of the comments are flat-out aggressive and it just gets worse as you go on.
I'm really sorry this happened to you. The reference sheet that you did is adorable. Beware well warranted on that client.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Thank you ;^;

[vioskotty.livejournal.com]

As others have said please CALL paypal about resolving it instead of email, it may not be guaranteed but there have been better results in settling disputes that way. I do wish you the best of luck, the kind of language they responded back to you with was uncalled for with the constant insults and they hardly addressed possible fixes.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the suggestion. I may not like phone calls but I think in this situation I should do it!

[darkunisha.livejournal.com]

Holy crap Batman that tone turned sharply like wow. My mouth fell slightly agape at the tone they were using and just how harsh they were being. That was completely uncalled for, sorry to see that you had to deal with that. :c

As for Paypal, I would make copies of all the e-mails that were sent between you and the commissioner, from the beginning to end and call Paypal, explain what happened. Send the e-mails if needed to explain, as well include the image to show that you had done the work.

Might want to include the breakdown of the price, anything that would strengthen your case. Wish you the best of luck, and I hope Paypal leans in your favor!

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the suggestion!!

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Hoooooooooooooly shit.

Call Paypal ASAP!

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Geeze Louise that guy was unreasonably angry.

[clockmagic.livejournal.com]

I'll be honest (so please take this with a grain of salt) even though he gave you the option to simplify it up, based on how simple it ended up becoming, nothing came off as semi-realistic in the end. So I don't know how you would have been able to really tackle this with him being satisfied. Too simple and it's not semi-realistic like he preferred and too complex and it would be too difficult for your makers to work with.

I mean in the end his tone was off the wall and he could have expressed himself in a much better way, but I don't know how you could have done this right either (maybe less stripes than the revised image but more than the toony one?).

I'm no pro in either category (art or costume making) it's just what I got off this.

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

Right, I feel like they're the kind of person who will never be satisfied.

But yes, there are better ways to express that you don't like something than straight up hostility. :(

[digibat.livejournal.com]

Make sure to post this up so that he doesnt go commissioning some maker with the sheet since he didnt pay for it

[fawkatronic.livejournal.com]

WOW!
From zero to a million in a second. Even after you said you would make changes and work with them to get what they were looking for they just continued on their angry tirade and insult flinging.
Beware WELL warranted.

[gaturguts.livejournal.com]

I keep hanging at them complaining about the 12 days wait time, like.. geez, I've waited a month(s) and even up to a year for some pieces. 12 days is a FAST turn around, especially for a reference sheet.
Beware well warranted. Yikes.

[crystamartin.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Artists aren't machines, they don't poop out art at a regular interval 24/7. I always expect artists to take a few weeks to do a piece and if I need it for a deadline, I make sure to be upfront with the artist about that required date - and give them reasonable time to do the art and meet that deadline.

Really, if he didn't specify a deadline, and it's clear he didn't from the post, 12 days is up there with the fastest turnarounds I've experienced.

[kashidom.livejournal.com]

Looks like this customer doesn't have a clue what "concept art" is cx ..good beware!

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

Wow, that was really.... Aggressive. Beware super well warranted, I would never want to work for someone who spoke to another artist that way. Or another human being, really.

Sorry OP :(

[kazeno-taka.livejournal.com]

"I'm not intentionally trying to be a bitch here..."

Yet they continued spouting unnecessarily rude insults.

There are plenty of ways to be much more civil and polite when discussing why you're unhappy with a commission. Accusing the artist of 'scamming' them and 'jacking the price up' and 'spending 12 days for THAT level of work' is not constructive, it's insulting. Honestly it sounds to me like they never intended on having you fix the piece and let you keep the money in the first place - their tone drips of "I just want a refund".

That said, why would they expect you to create something in a different style than is in your previous examples? They said they expected "semi-realistic", even after they said "use your discretion" and "I trust your judgment". What did they expect? The art provided was the same style you've done before. Did they expect you to suddenly add full shading and a non-toony body? I feel like they were set to be disappointed from the start, not because of any fault of yours, but because they commissioned an artist with a style that didn't mesh with the image they had in their head.

Sorry you had to go through all this. Your responses were 100% professional and your adjustments on the commission - in my eyes - fixed the marking complaints they had. I hope you're able to reverse that chargeback, because you provided what you promised and that money is yours.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Every time I read this I cringe a little more each time, beware well warranted. The language was so unnecessary.

[brosiusra.livejournal.com]

Beware well warranted; there was really no trigger for that nasty attitude. You were nothing but courteous and it really seemed like you were trying your best to keep the customer happy.

Please keep us updated after you call PayPal. I'd hate to think that this person got a free, complicated ref sheet after that sort of behavior.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

While the customer is in the wrong, I feel you should have listened to them and not dumbed down the stripes. It's not YOUR problem if a maker can't work from what the buyer requested, but it is your problem when you change what was asked for. he specified multiple times realistic, and although he said you could choose, I would have ran it pasted him before hand. (If you did, I must have missed it as I only saw clarification on the eyes)

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

I fully agree that I'm not perfectly in the right here. I absolutely could have done better from the start!
But I certainly wasn't expecting this kind of backlash. Usually if things need to be fixed after the commission is done its no big deal! Probably about 60% of commissions I do have to have changes made as I'm usually designing characters for people and I'm not a mind reader. Could have been the case here, could have just been no big deal and would have been fixed quickly if the client wasn't so rude.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

You handled this so professionally and SO tactfully. His comments were super rude and aggressive right off the bat. He didn't like the interpretation of the stripes- I understand that, and I can see where he's coming from. That said, you were making your interpretation of what would look good on a suit based on your knowledge, which he was aware you were doing. It's not hard to ask for changes.

He didn't have to accuse you of ripping him off (especially considering how clearly it is stated WHY he was charged what he was, and that he's familiar with your work).

A simple discussion of why he is unhappy with the stripes and asking to make it a bit more realistic, perhaps even explaining he's planning on having airbrushing done would have sufficed and made this a fine transaction on both ends.

Additionally, his comment about the wait time makes me wonder if he's ever commissioned an artist (or any serviceperson) before. There's no shame in asking clarification about wait times, though I can't imagine he thought you were working day in and day out on one single reference sheet (for $80 no less)!

Beware well warranted. I hope paypal sides with you, because this is ridiculous.

[dirtiran.livejournal.com]

You handled that horrible attitude so well, well done D; Beware well warranted, yuck.

As to the charge back situation, I am not entirely sure myself and I have definitely heard that Paypal rarely helps digital artists.

I actually work with someone who worked for paypal for quite a while, so if you haven't had success by the time I see her on the weekend. I will ask her opinion on if there is any way to handle the digital goods issue :)

In the mean time, I do suggest calling them directly and let them know that you have all the evidence of communication on hand (to show you submitted to the clients demands and was still charged back without warning.)

[whoop-zi.livejournal.com]

i am super super impressed with how patient you were throughout that entire exchange and i hope that with this beware people can not only avoid this person but also want to give you their business!

i hope paypal sides with you, but i'm also wondering if somehow you rework the lineart to be a different character and sell it, if they don't? i can't believe how disrespectful this person was. i'm so sorry you had to deal with this.

[enn shaw (from livejournal.com)]

LORD, DAT ATTITUDE. I can't comment without trying not to call this customer names, but MAAAAAAAAN.

[sapphistscot.livejournal.com]

Yikes, that reaction is so hostile! Kudos for keeping your cool. If they're looking to get a fursuit made, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the maker they choose because I could see that turning out really badly if this is how they react to a reference image they're not happy with.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

https://i.gyazo.com/817fcaf018187b4240ff32954fa2b88e.png

I kind of noticed this on their page. Is this person a member of A_B?

[blot.livejournal.com]

Yea, I saw that too and side-eyed it heavily.

[scottalottosay.livejournal.com]

I understand if they wanted the stripes to be changed, but that is definitely NOT the way to go about asking. You even fixed the stripes for them after they were extremely rude and aggressive (which nobody should have to deal with), but they still filed a chargeback after all of your hard work and willingness to fix it. They didn't even ask for a refund, they just screamed at you and tried to take back the money.

I'm not saying this is what's happening, but some people will work with you, but then they file a chargeback after they receive the work in attempts to get free art. I don't know what went through their head, so I don't know if this is what the goal was (maybe they seriously didn't like the stripes and handled it in a REALLY poor way), but I just wanted to make you and other people here are aware of this sort of thing for the future.

The thing that really gets me, besides the obvious harsh behavior, is that they kept complaining about the wait time and price. 12 days of waiting is a really fast waiting time! You even said it usually takes 10-14 days on average. Then they claim that the reference sheet is worth $20 at best. They already agreed to the artist's price, knew what style you did (they said they looked at your website and basic reference sheets), and you even changed it for them after they said they didn't like it!

Let's pretend for a second that you really did charge $20 and it took you 3 hours to make. That's not even minimum wage where I live. You would have made less than $7.00 an hour. You said you worked much longer than 3 hours on it, though, so it would be even less than that if you charged $20. But since that didn't happen, let's look at what really happened. They paid $80, and you said that you worked on the reference sheet for three days. I'm not sure how long three days is since I really hope you slept during that time, so let's say you worked 4 hours a day on it (but you probably worked on it for longer). 4 hours a day for three days is 12 hours, and they paid $80, so that means that you made the exact same amount as in my previous example (less than $7.00 an hour!) You could have charged them more, but they decided to complain about an already amazing price.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. They commissioner displayed extremely unacceptable behavior, and you remained polite and professional even when they were not. I really hope you get your $80.