[identity profile] txcountrybelle.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] artists_beware
I apologize in advance for how bad some of these captures turned out; my laptop’s quality isn’t that great.

Who: Mitha

Where: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/mitha

What: Fursuit head commission

When: First note on FurAffinity regarding commissions was sent September 19th and the conflict occurred until the end of her FurBuy auction October 25th at 10:30pm
Situation: So I found Mitha randomly scrolling through recent uploads under the fursuit tab on FurAffinity. I saw her work, liked it and sent her a note about a possible commission. Keep in mind I’m a broke ass college student, my money is limited right now. So Mitha made a deal with me, I would buy the 2 sets of fur needed for my fursona, foamy to go around the eyes and 5’ thick foam to shape her muzzle and then I’d only have to pay her $250 for basic labor charges (not including shipping).

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/EvepWm5.jpg

So I went out and spent roughly $100 buying supplies to send to her, all the way in Alaska. Before they arrived she began basic construction on my head. As she was moving along in the process she told me that she had found 2 extra pieces of thick foam to use for the muzzle, so whatever I paid for the 5’ thick foam I should dock it off the $250 since it wasn’t going to be used on my head, to which I happily agreed but then changed my mind; saying that she could keep it as a tip for how great she was to work with and how fast she was moving. And about a week later the head was finished.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/iOjLOtk.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/gj4ELaH.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/zI4uz24.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/wExzZt3.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/PAXSjDe.jpg

Everything was fine until it came time for final payment. I had a last minute complication come up and I was in dire need of extra cash, so I brought up her original proposal of me keeping the $20 I spent on the 5’ thick foam. To which she told me no because I was replacing her own stock of foam with everything I bought. I was confused and a bit irritated because as a commissioner is was not MY job to replace her materials, even though I had bought some to send to her. She also lied and said that she did end up using the 5’ foam I sent her for the lower jaw, which is complete bs because she had the lower jaw formed and attached LONG before she asked me where I had bought the 5’ foam from due to is good quality

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/1mX616U.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/eNlAuco.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/9Msh8fq.jpg

She then started to argue with me about how she didn’t quote me for all the other materials she had to use like the duct tape, 2’ inch foam, tread, fleece etc and that the 2’ inch foam was $20 in itself “yet it wasn’t on the list of materials” I sent her. If she had wanted me to buy those extra materials she should have said so when we first agreed for me to buy some of the materials. The $250 I was paying her is supposed to help cover material cost as well as labor, so she had no reason to bring the other materials up.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/4rWl27i.jpg

At this point (October 15th) the head 100% was completed. When I realized I wasn’t going to win the argument against her about gaining the $20 back I agreed to send her the requested $250 + $30 for shipping that I owed and requested her PayPal info. Well several days went by and I heard nothing from her, which on my end looked like she was avoiding the conflict we just had all together. I sent her MULTIPLE messages asking where she was, what her PayPal info was, letting her know that I was trying to send payment and if she was avoiding me due to conflict etc.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/uR8eY9B.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/BuWyxZL.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/ny3vGA3.jpg

When I finally got a response I was suddenly being accused of harassment and that I had not paid for the head yet, even though if you look at previous statements of proof part of the agreed payment was me sending her materials to use which basically equaled out to a down payment on the head. She also pointed out that I was trying to short her money, which I had stated multiple times that I was fully prepared to give her the amount she was asking for and then she proceeded to cancel my commission. Which irritated me even more because the head was already fully finished, the only thing left was to mail it.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/OdNfbJn.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/pqZRsTj.jpg

She refuses to answer any of my messages in regards to what she now planned to do with my fursona’s fursuit head as well as having a civil conversation about what was going on. I was advised from a friend to wait a day, let things cool down and then try again to get in contact. But much to my horror someone commented on a recent journal past asking if I was no longer getting the fursuit head because it was LISTED ON FURBUY. Sure enough, she had gone and listed my fursuit head online without any regards to me.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/9uOLKJm.jpg
Proof: http://i.imgur.com/WLSllzM.jpg

All my attempts to talk to and with her had failed, including getting a refund for the materials I bought for her which she had said she would send the fur back with my head. So I turned to authorities and informed her that I planned to do so. But of course because she lives in Alaska there was nothing the law could really do about it here in Texas. At this point she had blocked me on Skype, FurAffinity and had prevented me from bidding/ commenting on the auction. I couldn’t just let someone else walk around in MY fursona. So what did I do? I had my absolutely AMAZING friend Matt bid on the auction for me. I’m pleased to announce that we won the auction, thankfully, and she arrived at my house safe and sound.

Proof: http://i.imgur.com/7IdhroC.jpg

If she was so dead set on selling the commissioned head than she should have at least taken the eyes out and painted them a different color or done something to alter the head so it wasn’t exactly like Sasha. But no, she went and relisted my fursona for someone else to come and buy. So this is a post to let people know that if you commission her and somewhere along the line a conflict comes up you run the risk of losing your fursona’s identity to someone else because she’ll just go and resell your character online. This was a VERY close call and this post is just to let people know what I went through because I don’t want anyone else have to experience the same pains I went through.

Date: 2016-01-27 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sian tiley (from livejournal.com)
That is VERY wrong of them To Sell off the suit without edits , I will make sure to avoid them.

Date: 2016-01-27 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahtaur.livejournal.com
Since comments are back on I'll restate what I said before.

The artist is in the wrong until they refund you the cost of the materials (roughly $95 or so) or comparable mats, there's no question there. But you screamed at them and threatened them and I'm not surprised they wanted to wash their hands of you. Bombarding them with several aggressive messages a day (?!) does not make someone want to work with you.

Legally, there is absolutely no law that says they cannot sell that head to whomever they please without altering it. It is a physical item, no different than a painting of your character for example. Ethically, they probably would have been better off changing some features before selling.

It's not uncommon for fursuit makers to sell parts in order to recoup money - the artist may have been doing that to refund you, although we don't know until they communicate with you, which they should really be doing.

Date: 2016-03-29 02:25 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ljmydayaway.livejournal.com
I don't think OP screamed or threatened them (from what I can see right here - which who knows if it's the whole truth - I just don't consider 'you're not helping your rep' to be a threat since clients can just be kind of like that sometimes... maybe I've just become numb to it after working in customer service for so long), but they did need to CHILL on the messages.

OP, people aren't always at their computer even if Skype says they are, and even if they are, they have the right to ignore you for a bit. Especially on the weekends! Artists' jobs are their art - they have to take a break from that sometimes too, just like how you get to take a break from your job. They aren't robots that are able to respond within a split second to every message.

Next time, either scroll back through your skype messages or give the artist a couple days to reply! Don't just send messages every hour until they respond. Not cool.
Edited Date: 2016-03-29 02:30 am (UTC)

(frozen) mod comment

Date: 2016-01-27 07:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
Just a reminder that any further comment deletion or tampering will result in moderator action.

(frozen)

Date: 2016-01-27 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laughsatthunder.livejournal.com
Why were comments closed earlier?

(frozen)

Date: 2016-01-27 08:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dragontripmon.livejournal.com
This is what i wonder considering there were two comments yesterday.

(frozen)

Date: 2016-01-27 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
Hello, we've already handled it with the OP. Let's stay on topic, please.

Date: 2016-01-27 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] laughsatthunder.livejournal.com
Now that I've re-read the whole thing and can post comments again...

While it was wrong of the artist to re-sell the fursuit head as-is without making edits and they didn't reply to your messages (they mentioned living paycheck to paycheck, maybe their internet was cut off?) there's something about this post that doesn't sit well with me. I feel like a whole chunk of information is being swept under the carpet.

I'm also going to second leahtaur, you seemed to be incredibly pushy and aggressive towards the artist. I actually felt uncomfortable reading your messages. If my client bombarded me like that every hour or so for an answer when I'm trying to sleep or work, I don't blame her for not wanting to answer (although several days (from what is being shown)? Way too long).

I wouldn't want to do business with either of you. Sorry.

Date: 2016-01-27 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] enn shaw (from livejournal.com)
I think this is a beware of both the OP AND the artist.

Beware of the artist because their crappy communication, and should've refunded you for the cost of the materials. They also should've edited the item before selling it off.

OP because of their lack of patience and the aggressive message bombing proves that.When you're sending several rude messages a day, people will not want to work with you. Maybe something was going on in their life and they can't always respond on the fly, when you want it. They do have to respond at some point when they are doing a transaction but you have to be patient with them.

Date: 2016-01-27 10:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tyrano-tiggs.livejournal.com
Artist was unprofessional but wow you were aggressive with the constant messaging, sometimes not even 20 minutes after you'd sent a message so I would wash my hands of you too to be brutally honest.

Date: 2016-01-28 05:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] revalie.livejournal.com
Yikes, your behavior is unacceptable as a commissioner. The artist listing it for auction is also totally unacceptable, but your behavior is super out of line here as well. Messaging multiple times a day and even threatening to call the cops is ridiculous. I hope you can learn from this experience and gain some professionalism and grace as a commissioner in the future.

Date: 2016-01-28 09:10 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nisaetus.livejournal.com
Echoing what everyone else has said here, honestly. The artist should refund you the cost of materials as keeping them is unprofessional and wrong, but dear God screaming at them and bombarding them with messages was completely unnecessary and I would have dropped you as a commissioner too if I was getting messages literally within an hour of each other demanding a response. Skype does not show you if your messages were read or not; the artist may not even have been online to see them and your tone leapt almost immediately to aggression. That's frightening and does not reflect well on you as a commissioner.


Edited to fix a stray period, sorry.
Edited Date: 2016-01-28 09:11 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-01-28 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thejackaolf.livejournal.com
Yikes, I have to agree with everyone else, yes they should have refunded you the mat cost, and likely should have changed up the head, but ohhh wow, your behavior was unnecessary and wildly combative. I cant blame the artist for cutting ties, if shes in Alaska, and with these storm fronts going haywire everywhere its very likely she lost power/net, and I know for a fact Skype can go wonky and list you as online/idle when you have zero internet. bombarding them with hostile messages and threats is a quick way to make them cut all ties, they should have responded and done something to the head but I can see why they did it.

TLDR: The maker was in the wrong, and so where you.

Date: 2016-01-28 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thejackaolf.livejournal.com
Whoops sorry, didn't mean to make this a reply.

Date: 2016-02-01 02:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaossal.livejournal.com
Selling someone else's character is horrible! Yikes! That's a instant block from me! No matter how your customer acts you can not just go and sell there character! Beware very well warranted!

Date: 2016-02-01 06:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leahtaur.livejournal.com
The description of the auction has not been included but by the sounds of it, the character was not being sold like an adoptable - just the head which the buyer could make up their own backstory about. I know it's not considered an ethical thing to do in the fandom, to sell something with the likeness of someone's character, but I think it's important to make the distinction between selling something that happens to have the likeness and actually selling an adoptable with express permission to "own" and use it as a character. Big difference!

Date: 2016-02-02 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chaossal.livejournal.com
Has more then the likeness if its the exact head of there fursona since they did not make any changes to it and anyone who buys it of course would also want to make it there character and get art of it too, the body would end up different but its still not a good feeling seeing somebody take your sonas head and just put it on another body.

Date: 2016-02-02 05:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ailurucanis.livejournal.com
I feel as though this deserves a little more depth to this story. Source - Mitha and I were in talks at this time, and she had consulted with me on several occasions for help with this situation.

Mainly, by adding some points txcountrybelle had left out. First thing though, i'd like to point out the Mitha had agreed to have the head completed and sent by Halloween, giving her a little over a month to make the head from start to finish. She was also haggled down from her commission price DRASTICALLY which she only felt obligated to do out of sympathy, and the fact she was excited for her first commission. I told her from the get go agreeing to a commission with someone who tells you they're a broke college student and wants a discount was a horrible idea.

Now, some of the things that were left out that I was aware of, was that she had been harassing Mitha multiple times daily for updates throughout the ENTIRE commission process, having her private stream work on the head, and, as you can see, started to become incredibly rude when she would not reply promptly (as in, within moments). As far as I remember, the only time she wavered in her replies was when she began to feel harassed. She wanted to cancel the commission long before the 15th. Commissioner also refused and made excuses to not pay her, of the likes of "money is tight" or, non-existant, and whatnot. She had felt very conflicted because she did not want to work without payment, but she had promised to complete it by a deadline so she worked on it reluctantly cause she didn't know how to handle this sort of thing yet.
Might I add, even as Mitha was about to ship the head in the mail, the commissioner continued to with-hold payment, and ONLY began to wave money around (that she claimed she didn't have earlier) when Mitha initially threatened to cancel the commission due to her excessively intrusive and rude behavior. I urged her to go through with the commission as it was as good as done at this point. Mitha had said she was tired of this, but would ONLY follow through if upon mentioning the cancelling (among several other alternative options she had given her) that the commissioner would take the terms lightly. She did not, and snapped at her which it was THEN Mitha revoked any choice the commissioner had on how the commission was closed.

On the terms of the cancelling, I had advised Mitha many times that she had every right to cancel, but she had to ship her the unused materials (as a form of refund, persay) as she barely used anything that was sent anyway. I also many times told Mitha she MUST alter the head before attempting to re-sell. Why she had blatantly ignored those points, I cant say entirely, except that I know she was mentally exhausted from the whole situation (and y'know, her phone being rung at 5-6am in the morning and throughout the day with her commissioner from hell demanding to have her suit head). So, im not really here to paint Mitha in any kind of shining armor, cause I was pretty disappointed myself at how she flipped the bill for the head...

But, just figured y'all could use some extra info for consideration.

Date: 2016-02-02 11:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] celestinaketzia.livejournal.com
Wow, that's some serious things. Are there screenshots of this behavior?

Date: 2016-02-02 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kayla-la.livejournal.com
If you are still in talks with Mitha, you are free to tell her she can come in here and bring up these points (though having proof would really help). That said, you're right, regardless of bad behaviour, you can't just keep and not refund anything when you cancel. Not much would change that fact.

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