&quot;Artists Beware&quot;

Hey all, sorry for the slow reply to this thread.

So, I'm going to start with this: I have fully acknowledged this situation. I messed up about 1.5 years ago and just took on way more than I could handle in the midst of personal life issues, but I am not here to tell you my sob story.

The facts:
- I have apologized multiple times, both publicly and very sincerely to each person I refund as I have sent the money back to them. I know that this does not fix anything, but I know I messed up with this and am trying to make amends.
- The original list of people I had to refund was at 10, it is now down to 3. I'm pretty sure that says that I have been taking action on this. (Which is why I might think that this AB post is a bit unjustified, but I'll go with it.)
- The reason I do not reply to multiple PM's, emails or notes is because I have expressed quite a few times that I will be contacting the person who is next to be refunded on the list as I have the funds to return to them. Maybe that isn't the best way to go about communication, but I'm easily stressed out by having to say the same thing over and over again.

People are refunded as I have the funds to spare. I do not make a lot of money and I have bills and things I have to take care of. The few remaining people on this list have been waiting the longest, I understand that, and I am sorry that you all have been disappointed and let down. That was never my intention. So far I have been able to refund at least one person every month the past few months, and I hope that this is the continued theme.

All I can do is try to make the best of a bad situation, ask for you to continue your patience, and hope that you all can hold on just a bit more.

Thanks,
- Seiska

Edited Date: 2016-07-25 08:29 pm (UTC)

From:

canidaesku1i.livejournal.com

I hesitate to reply directly in most cases to anything, but...

As much as you're taking control of the situation in other venues with other people, the fact remains is that the OP hasn't received their refund and feels your communication has been subpar. Only you put yourself in this situation and apologies only go so far - the fact remains is that you shouldn't even have spent the money because it wasn't yours to spend. Anything else is tantamount to stealing and 100% justifies a beware.

Going forward, I sincerely hope you re-evaluate how you do business and either not take payment until the commission is done or not spend the funds until you've made the product the person has paid for. You may have life expenses but commission money isn't intended to be a no-interest loan.

Also, it might help if you gave OP an ETA of when they can expect the refund instead of avoiding them or giving them a big question mark (there might be more people ahead of them but that makes them no less entitled to a refund than the person who actually made a beware about you).

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Thank you for your comment.

I agree with you. Since this ordeal happened, your suggested method is exactly how I conduct business now.

The OP was contacted earlier in the evening about an ETA, and I will be adding ETAs to the other two people who have been waiting.

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weisk.livejournal.com

Just a small comment, in one of your previous posts on Wolf Home you stated that people were free to make an AB against you...

"If you feel the need to post me up on AB, do it, [...]"

http://i.imgur.com/5ndSmkv.jpg in abouts the middle of this screenshot, from April 2nd.

It doesn't seem very fair of you to say that this AB is unjustified, regardless of that comment (although it does bug me that you made that comment previously, but now that one has been made against you, you say you feel is unjustified). Your financial situation is no one's problem but you're own. You're acknowledging that you're not responding to those asking about their refunds, I would also make an AB at that point given the length of time. :S

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My reasoning behind my statement goes along with a bit of my own thought process. If someone is feeling like they need to be justified, then they should do what they believe is right (obviously so long as that action does not cause any physical or emotional damage). It was in no way me throwing my hands up and saying that I didn't care about the situation, but I can see now how it could be construed as such. I might not personally agree that it is a justified reason to put this on AB, since I've been steadily working on the refunds. But I'm also not blind to the fact that it is reason enough for another person to think so.

I'm well aware that my financial situation is my own problem.
I have acknowledged people, albeit in a much more public fashion. It was a fairly broad announcement and probably needs to be updated, since some time has passed.
The length of time is tied directly into what and when I can afford to make a refund.

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kayla-la.livejournal.com

I'm legitimately confused to why you think you refunding -other- people means the OP should no longer have a complaint?

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Because it was a list that I have been working down in the order of people I took commissions from. I'm not sure if I've ever said that they were not completely validated to a complaint - I've only said that all of this is acknowledged and steadily being taken action upon.

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kayla-la.livejournal.com

I think we're going to have to just disagree on the idea that you being aware you did a bad thing makes a beware unjustified, or that you refunding other people is relevant to the OP and their case at all. If you can say they're validated to a complaint, that's enough to validate this beware.

I'm glad to hear you're working on it, however.

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I don't mean any rudeness or offense here, I've just been wondering the same thing as kayla_la, and I'm trying to understand your response.
What about that list you've been working down has any bearing on this client? It's great that you're working on it, and it could perhaps give other clients assurance that you will eventually refund them, but that's still not direct action on *their* business agreement with you.
I'm not saying you need to refund everyone at the same time or anything- working down a list of refunds make total sense. But do you see how, despite that work and despite the list, not addressing the specific case with this specific client-i.e., ignoring communications from them- doesn't give them that assurance? Even if all you can tell them is, "I'm working on refunds, here is where I am in the list, I know you've been waiting a long time but please be patient", that looks *worlds* better than just ignoring them. I know it sucks to have to respond to everyone's inquiries over and over, possibly repeating yourself a lot in the process, but that's the nature of this job, especially when backlogs happen and people start wondering what's up. One can't simply assume they will gain assurance or patience from watching that list get refunded, and they can't assume you will refund them just because they are on that list. Communication with specific clients is still important, no matter how tedious the process becomes.

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digivolution.livejournal.com

I'm glad you're working on refunds, and refunding others does show you're dedicated to working towards refunding OP, but OP hasn't been refunded so IMO a beware is warranted here. I think once OP is refunded this can be marked as solved but as of right now they have reason to be upset.

Edited Date: 2016-07-27 08:45 am (UTC)

From:

weisk.livejournal.com

Regardless if you're working on refunds, the fact that this was an issue in the first place, and that fact that you seem to have communication issues seems beware worthy on its own. I would be more than cautious working with you after seeing this situation between you and your customer waiting on a refund.

It's great that you're working on refunding your customers, but that doesn't mean nothing happened.

Really glad this beware was made, if you feel like complaints aren't justified simply because others have been given attention/refunds.

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seems to me that the artist has done everything possible to make this right. it is just unrealistic for people like the OP to expect every cent the artist makes to go into refunds. the fact that the artist is completing other commissions (in order to do refunds) is her choice. the refund list has been worked on, and is continuing to be worked on.

I know for a fact that wolfhome is an incredibly toxic place, especially for artists. Seiska made the choice to discontinue selling artwork there, a choice she has every right to make. by taking other commissions on FA, she is working on refunding those on wolfhome.

take a step back and think about how it is on her side. whining about it and making it personal is doing absolutely nothing for anyone.

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totschrei.livejournal.com

I hate to chime in, however, this isn't helping either.
Yes they are in the right direction. Yes they are working on it.
But the fact still stands: They completely ignored OP's email when OP just wanted a response.

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because the artist plainly states that she will contact people when she reached them on the list.

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totschrei.livejournal.com

That still is no excuse.
If you ordered a pizza from pizza hut, you have every right to call them as many times as you want to see when your pizza will be ready.

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keaalu.livejournal.com

It's a little disingenuous to say the OP is just "whining" about the fact that the artist has had an interest-free loan from them for over a year.

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based on what was posted publicly on wolfhome, I still consider it whining. to each their own, I suppose.

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signy.livejournal.com

How dare a customer expect to receive what they paid for and complain when they still haven't received the item (or a refund) after a year has passed. Clearly, they should just continue to wait patiently and hope the artist will eventually do the right thing. Maybe.

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Yes, it is her choice, but the fact remains that choices lead to consequences. It's very well-known among professional artists that taking on more work to pay back old work is a sure-fire way to get yourself deeper into debt or an unprofessional reputation, and has been that way for a long time.

I can understand how working in a toxic place is rough- I speak from personal experience. It does not change the fact that she is responsible for her actions as a professional, regardless of what website they play out on.
As far as I have seen, nobody is taking this personally. This is a business agreement gone sour, and people are free to comment on it, following A_B's guidelines, and that includes the OP. Business goes sour sometimes, professional arrangements don't always stay professional, but that doesn't mean it becomes personal.

From:

celestinaketzia.livejournal.com

Plenty of us know what it is to be on her side as we're freelance artists. We still manage to get our work done and keep clients personally updated. Updating 10 clients on a personal basis is not a hard task to do; it's part of the job regardless of the place you're choosing to do business on.

From:

canidaesku1i.livejournal.com

The money /does not/ belong to them until the product is completed. A person taking a client's money before any work is done is stealing, plain and simple, and Seiska shouldn't have spent the $40 until they were done with the poses. OP is entirely justified within their AB. I don't care if they've refunded most of the people or 500 people, the fact remains is that the OP hasn't got their money that shouldn't have been spent in the first place.

I don't care how "toxic" a community is and while the artist has every right to stop selling there, it gives them no excuse to snub their current clients because of it. At the end of the day they still owe work.

From:

jellyfishee.livejournal.com

How is it unrealistic for a customer to expect a product they paid for or their money back?
This artist did not 'earn every cent'. No product was ever produced, that money belongs to the customer, it is merely in the possession of the artist.

From:

likeshine.livejournal.com

Saying the OP is whining is incredibly passive aggressive. They were ignored by the artist multiple times, were waiting well over a year too, and this was their last resort to get their money back. I'm thinking you're a friend/fan of the artist and that is cool, but they still need to be held accountable. The OP just wants their refund. How is that making it personal?

I have been in the artist's shoes. I've been a freelancer for over 10 years now. Communication is the key to my business. I'm not the fastest artist, but I keep people in the loop. Journals don't reach everyone. Tweets don't reach everyone. Direct contact is the only way.

From:

kayliimae.livejournal.com

As someone who's been waiting for an artist to reply to her commission update since April herself (and considering an A_B because of it) it's VERY important I feel that artists remain in contact with commissioners. You have their money, so it's worth the time it takes to reply to an email even if it's just to let them know you need a little while longer. I can see that it can be frustrating to say essentially the same thing to them 'I need a little while longer, sorry for the wait!' but I think the assurance that your client is not being ignored is worth way more than the silence.

I'm not always keen on looking up an artist's journal to see what their commission update is. I have a trello so my clients know where they are on the list, but I tell them that they are always able to contact me if they want a better timeframe. Communication seems to the biggest reason why a lot of artists are on this site, and it could be easily resolved with just a little response back.

Edit: Saw a typo! XP

Edited Date: 2016-07-26 07:16 pm (UTC)

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shrugs, having known both parties for a number of years j am well aware the level of professionalism that has taken place on both sides.

perhaps my "whining" comment is too strong a word... but I still think things could have gone a lot better on both sides. I understand being frustrated, but coming at an artist with that level of aggression *constantly* is not the way to go.

From:

jebboy.livejournal.com

Do you really know the full levels of professionalism that took place during the whole transaction? Did you have access to both sides' private and public messages?
I highly suggest you not speak as if you know exactly what happened when it's rather obvious you don't.

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and I highly suggest you don't assume that I *don't* know. :)

I'm done with this, honestly. I only wanted people who seem to be jumping on the conclusion wagon to pls stay in ur lane.

ps, the "newness" of my account has nothing to do with anything. I have been on lj for years and simply made a new account after quite a long hiatus.

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I only wanted people who seem to be jumping on the conclusion wagon to pls stay in ur lane.
People are free to comment on this posting, within A_B's guidelines, with their opinion on the matter based on what is shown. We are not "exiting" our lane in doing so.

ps, the "newness" of my account has nothing to do with anything. I have been on lj for years and simply made a new account after quite a long hiatus.
I assume you're referring to my comment, as jebboy did not mention the newness of your account. My point in mentioning that is the account was made very close to the time the artist was commenting on this posting, and usually when that happens, it's because the account was made to make comments on the post to defend said artist. I've seen it many times since I began watching A_B, which is why I said that. I did not intend to upset you, I was simply pointing out something I had seen many times before, as it lined up pretty closely with past events.

From:

jebboy.livejournal.com

You are not the artist nor are you the OP of this beware.
Therefore you really don't know.

The phrase staying in your lane honestly applies to you more than anyone here. We are staying in our lanes,you are not.

From:

likeshine.livejournal.com

From:

sweet-melon-bun.livejournal.com

Please tell me how every few months is *constantly*??

Edited Date: 2016-07-28 06:20 pm (UTC)

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I read the correspondence provided, and speaking as a professional artist with 8 years of experience working with all kinds of people (at all levels of patience), I do not see any "aggression" at all. I see a concern for the status of their business transaction that only gets more justified as time goes on, but I do not see aggression.
Perhaps knowing the artist personally- something I suspected from the first comment, considering the newness of your account here- has affected how you have perceived the tone of the client.

From:

hunty belmnt (from livejournal.com)

I can't comment without swearing and being rude to the others so I'm gonna stay quiet on that.

Sorry you're going through this, OP.

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