Beware: Dao

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

WHO: Dao on IMVU/DauxyCheeks on FA/Xashy on DA

WHERE: This took place through Facebook through her personal profile. This is her IMVU account, the products were to be made and delivered through IMVU. IMVU for Dao
My IMVU account, where the products were supposed to be delivered

WHAT: This was for a custom furset for IMVU. Custom AdSkin, kini, ears, tail, hands, feet products. I sent her my reference and all of the mesh links she would need for the set. She said $30 was fine, I sent her $32. (As I normally send a couple of dollars more to cover fees) Here are the screenshots of our conversation that took place via Facebook. Dao1, Dao2, Dao3, Dao4

WHEN: I first contacted her December 5th of 2016, December 6th I canceled my order and was blocked, December 7th I filed a claim with PayPal, December 15th I received the email saying she provided tracking information and the case was closed, December 17th first appeal denied, the last email I received by from PayPal was March 23rd of 2017 saying that my second appeal complete with screenshots of my IMVU account was denied.

PROOF: PayPal Case, First Appeal, Second Appeal, Blocked FB, Friends Only on IMVU, MY IMVU INV - SEARCHED, IMVU STAFF CONFIRMED NOTHING WAS SENT FROM DAO

EXPLAIN: Well I posted an ad in one of the furry Facebook groups asking if anyone would be up to making a furset for me on IMVU. Dao (Facebook name omitted for privacy) messaged me via Facebook messenger and I sent her the mesh links and the cash for what I wanted. I had a personal emergency come up and needed to cancel. I felt bad for having to cancel, but I thought since she stated she had another set to finish before she got to mine maybe it would not be too bad. To my surprise, she tells me she finished the skin and already submitted it to the IMVU catalog without even showing me first. I was a little confused by that but decided if she could just show me proof/show me the skin then I would let her keep a portion for her work/time. That's when things got odd because she told me I was really putting her in a bind and that PayPal was where she paid her bills? I did not find that to be appropriate or relevant but it was right after she said she would "get that processed" for me that she blocked me. I tried typing out a response and I got the little pop-up message telling me "this person is not receiving message from you at this time". I honestly took that as a big red flag and consulted with my friends and family on what I should do/did. I waited a day for the refund/reversal and then just went to PayPal to make a claim. It was going to be a dispute but at the time since she had me blocked I thought a claim would be best. I waited until the 15th, that's when I got an email back from PayPal telling me the case had been closed because the seller (Dao) had provided tracking info and confirmed I received my merchandise. I was confused and very frustrated, it was a digital product I ordered. How could they have taken tracking info from her and say it's confirmed when I have proof showing I have nothing in my account from her? I decided to call again and appeal my case. It was shot down almost immediately, on the 17th they had denied my first appeal stating that the seller had provided "compelling information" for my case in their favor. In truth, I gave up for awhile. I figured she just won and I was never getting anything back. I just got ripped off for $32 for nothing. Then a few days ago I had to file a dispute for a totally different issue and the supervisor I spoke with said I should send more screenshots and appeal again. I didn't even know that was an option but I figured I might as well. After another hour or so on the phone the supervisor told me she would contact me directly. Well, that never happened and some representative named "Bob" sent me an email yesterday telling me my screenshots did not prove anything. So I guess I'm just posting this here in hopes to either have this resolved or at the very least share my experience with you guys/potential customers of hers.

Comments

[pearlad.livejournal.com]

Hey hun. You should include the proof that she blocked you and that you never got your product that you posted on FB

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

Editing! Thank you Pearl!

[scourge (from livejournal.com)]

Just a thought, but check the tracking info she gave paypal. If it doesn't line up with your actual address then you should be able to prove it's false.

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

I never saw a tracking number. I have asked the people I've spoke to on PayPal multiple times what it was she sent them to confirm delivery and they just kept saying basically that they weren't at liberty to disclose that information to me. The last supervisor I spoke to did mention that it had something to do with my email address? I searched back to around that time frame from 12/05/16 to 12/20/16 for any messages from the seller and found nothing. The only emails that came up when I typed in her name were the emails from PayPal regarding the claim.

I got tired of hearing that she provided "compelling information" and proof that I received something I didn't so I spoke with this last supervisor for over an hour. I had to explain that the products I was supposed to have originally received were to be delivered through the IMVU site----not my email. I explained exactly what it was that I paid for, where it was supposed to be delivered, and she was looking at my inventory screenshot asking me questions for confirmation. I really felt like she understood, that someone finally understood.

And then Bob responded and said the screenshots of the **conversation** did not prove anything.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

I wonder if you can dispute it as goods not received. If she provided a tracking number (impossible), can you claim it never reached your physical address?

I'd keep calling, tbh. Somewhere along the line, she falsified something, since you obviously can't mail out a digital item.

That last bit about putting her in a shitty situation is all kinds of unprofessional. If she showed proof that she'd finished it, she'd be justified in keeping the money. But then, if she's finished it, why don't can't she just show/give it to you? Spite? Leads me to think she didn't finish it at all, in which case she should not have spent the money and refunding you shouldn't be an issue.

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

If she finished the skin, she would be justified to keep a portion of the $30 for her work. As it stands, I've received nothing from her and she kept my money. that's why I'm so frustrated. As for the tracking stuff and calling I have called maybe 6 or 7 times now to talk to supervisors and claim agents about this. I've repeated myself to them so many times it's ridiculous and that's kind of why I just gave up after the first appeal. When I decided to do the second one and I finally got someone who sounded like they understood my case I just ended up getting the same response.

I'm starting to think maybe they're using using the incorrect terminology or have a different meaning when they said tracking info to be honest. Because that last woman I spoke with mentioned a screenshot of an email to me? An email from the seller I never received maybe? But when I tried to ask about that for clarification she told me she was not allowed to share the screenshot with me. (??)

And yeah, I felt her response to me was very unprofessional and kind of odd? I mean, yes it sucks when something happens and things get canceled but I would never guilt trip my customer over it. I did apologize and yeah I felt bad about having to cancel but I had no choice. Since she didn't refund me right away (like the next day or so) I had to sell some things to take care of the emergency I had. That's fine, but I still needed to get my money back...and when I realized she fought me on it I was confused to say the least.

[scourge (from livejournal.com)]

Was it paid with PayPal balance or credit card because if it was a card I say fuck PayPal and go straight to the card company.

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

It came from my bank card, but my "bank" is electronic not a typical bank. Everything's run through the card itself. Customer service reps don't speak English very well and it's a headache trying to get them to do anything. If I demand a chargeback for this they would insist on conducting their own investigation /and/ I would be without my card. I don't want to claim fraud when it's not. (At least I don't think this would constitute as fraud?)

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

If she finished/delivered it, she would be entitled to all of the money. She fulfilled her part of the contract.

But thats a moot point, since you've neither been sent the skin nor seen the finished product. It is bizarre to me that she would not simply send you the completed work.

Did they explain how they were able to verify tracking for a digital commission? I'd love to hear how the artist managed to mail something that foes not physically exist.

I'm not sure if you can file a second claim for the same transaction, but if you can, I'd legit file one under "goods not received". And escalate it until you get results. She can't just keep money and not deliver a product.

Otherwise, perhaps go through your bank/credit card company?

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

If she finished/delivered it, she would be entitled to all of the money. She fulfilled her part of the contract.

But thats a moot point, since you've neither been sent the skin nor seen the finished product. It is bizarre to me that she would not simply send you the completed work.

Did they explain how they were able to verify tracking for a digital commission? I'd love to hear how the artist managed to mail something that foes not physically exist.

I'm not sure if you can file a second claim for the same transaction, but if you can, I'd legit file one under "goods not received". And escalate it until you get results. She can't just keep money and not deliver a product.

Otherwise, perhaps go through your bank/credit card company?

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

This is really not surprising considering her first beware here even though that was resolved the behavior coming from her was quite unprofessional and nasty.

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

I've read the other beware you're referring to after all this stuff happened with me. I really did not want to post here, but I kind of felt like this was the end of the line for me personally. As this platform should be used as a last resort (from what I've gathered that is).

I do not know this artist personally, and this was my first interaction with her business wise for anything. All I wanted was a furset, I had to cancel, and I should have been refunded. If she sent me proof that she did the skin I offered to let her keep $7 of the $32 which was a very generous compensation. $2.75 with the 45% off sale on IMVU will buy you 5,000 credits alone. It's around 1k~ to submit a new skin to the catalog.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

If she had sent you proof that she completed the skin, and delivered it to you, she would have been entitled to 100% of the $32.

Obviously that didn't happen here but keep it in mind for future transactions - if the artist does the work they get to keep the money, even if you do decide to cancel.

[xsnowlotusx.livejournal.com]

Going to have to correct you there....
A typical furset custom on IMVU is in 5 separate parts.
1. the skin
2. the kini (this is basically an outfit made so you can be a full furry without any bits showing)
3. The ears
4. The tail
5. A matching hairstyle

There can be more if ordered, but that is the typical structure.

Anyways...
If the skin is completed that is only 1 part of the whole commission, as each individual item is textured separately and submitted individually.
As such, there is no way for them to be entitled to a full price if only 1 part our of say 5, is completed.
She may be entitled to 20% of what was paid since she did 20% of the total commission, but not 100%.

So unless they got the ENTIRE set, there is no way anyone can say that the artist is entitled to a full commission price.

And I am saying this as a former furry developer of IMVU who still occasionally sells custom fursets there.

[lucifinia.livejournal.com]

There's a way to SHOW that it was never made or submitted.
Even if it's hidden.

Just saying.

http://www.imvu-e.com/services/cv/index.php?hidden&developer=74844924

[parasolhyena (from livejournal.com)]

Please be careful in the future. While this artist seems to be stringing you along, if you commission future artists and they complete the work before you want the refund, most artists will want to be compensated for their time. $7 is no where near compensation for a completed $32 commission if they had completed it. Most artists would not refund you. If they had even half completed the work the artist would ussally keep some of the money.
I am sorry this happened though and I really hope it gets resolved.

[fawkatronic.livejournal.com]

IMVU creator here:

I think you are misunderstanding (or maybe I am misunderstanding you, if I am I apologize). An IMVU furset is made of multiple parts, the commission in question is made of six parts according to OPs post. Even if the skin had been completed (which there seems to be no evidence it was even worked on) it was only a portion of the entire commission (in this case, one product out of six that were part of the whole set). Seven dollars out of a thirty dollar commission (the commission was only $30, OP gave them the extra $2 as a tip because they expected the commission to go well) is not bad. That is almost a quarter of the commission cost.

Submitting the skin DOES cost IMVU credits. However, there are ways a creator on IMVU can recoup their time and credits put into the commission (like how other artists could make something into a YCH). The creator could override the skin's textures and rename it to use it for another custom or a public sale fur. The developer could also modify the work they had done to make it different enough from the character and use it to make a new fur so their work is not gone to waste as well.

[parasolhyena (from livejournal.com)]

Whoops my apologise i did misread one part, I initally thought they said, the artist had claimed to have complete the whole commission not just the skin (also agree, there is no evidence they have done anything, so op should get full refund. )
Now If they had only completed the one skin that does make much more sense and I believe that partial refund would have been totally fine.

[trunchbull.livejournal.com]

Assuming you told PayPal that it was a digital item, the fact that PayPal decided to trust whatever info was being spit out by Dao AFTER she gave a tracking number for an intangible good is suspect in itself. Very disappointing.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Paypal has allowed digital goods to be covered since the dispute window was changed to 180 days. So long as the seller can prove the item was delivered digitally. The big issue is how did the artist "prove" it?

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

This might be its own sort of discussion in and of itself, but I always wondered and worried if artists can lie their way out of a paypal dispute and not deliver the goods, and what to do in paypal disputes?

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with this considering that question just reminded me of a beware that was posted on here last year in march about an artist lying to paypal. Which turned out to be an entire mess itself.

Payment

[rara tigris (from livejournal.com)]

Hey don't forget that INVU does not allow their products to be bought with real money or i should rephrase that they do not allow custom items to be sold with real money and the items need to be paid via IMVU credits.

Re: Payment

[azeryth.livejournal.com]

She is taking new custom orders for USD too.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/23277826/
Or if she decides to remove that from her submissions:
https://gyazo.com/7374de8395bd910711d7c8727f8ab293