BEWARE: Z-flesh

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

WHO: Z-flesh on deviantart

WHERE: http://z-flesh.deviantart.com/

WHAT: A digital icon commission paid via paypal.

WHEN: January 4th 2017

EXPLAIN: So I had posted a journal on deviantart asking if anybody could make me an icon for $1 or so I could use on tumblr of a video game character I really like. The game is somewhat unknown, so I cant find any free to use icons and I wouldn't feel right using somebodies artwork without asking, not that I could even find fanart of them.
Z-flesh had commented saying they were willing to do it. After showing me examples we agreed on the price of $1.50 for the icon and they had noted me with the email. Fast forward to January 24th. I have gotten no word at all about the progress of my icon and I was getting a bit worried. So I noted Z-flesh and was told they have a messy sketch done and thats it. They made the excuse that they "lost the note" for why they never contacted me but deviantart has a feature where you can star important notes, and I gently told them to perhaps do so incase it happens again. I also asked to see said sketch, and they never replied to me.
I checked their "who I owe" journal and found I was not on it. It is now March 3rd and I decided to contact them again and they, once again, used they excuse that they couldn't find me (despite me telling them to star my note). They said its finished and that they'll post it when they get home from school, but I'm a bit skeptical and feel that they'll 'forget' to do it again.
I will update if they actually post it or not, but either way, very unprofessional. I feel it is not my duty as the buyer to continue contacting and hassling them to finish my art, and they should of taken steps to finish it, let alone remember who I am. Even if they do post the icon, i'm leaving this up to warn others. I also feel the need to add, in the time span they were suppose to be doing my art (and owed nobody else) They had posted multiple ych's and accepted other commissions.

PROOF:
NOTE: My deviantart is tiny-forest-prince. So that is me.
Them offering to do the work and providing examples

Them sending me their email and me confirming I sent it.


Me asking for an update and them just...never replying.

Their to do list, which does not have me on it.

me messaging them today (March 3rd) and asking if it was done, and them telling me it is but 'wont be uploading it today'


The suspicious amount of hidden comments on their gallery (just extra. Makes me suspect somebody else perhaps didn't get their art)

even more hidden comments on their commission journal

take it as you will. I'm just not very happy about this.

EDIT: so they posted the commission...After all that time...and after me giving them a link to what the character looks like AND giving extra info on how i want them to look...they managed to draw the complete wrong character from a different game in the franchise... i'm a bit exhausted.

EDIT2: So after being told I should, I made myself ask them to redraw it or give me a refund.
me doing so with help of a template I was given

so lets see where this goes I suppose. I'll update when they reply. if they even do.

EDIT 3: so they've replied with this and claim the character they drew is the one I wanted... now I just feel like I'm being picky. I mean.. to me, as an avid lover of the video game and it being my favourite game, It looks nothing like the character. I cant tell if its just me being overly precise and picky or if it really doesn't look right. I'd appreciate some help. This is the character I wanted (specifically asked for them to have a pony tail or hair bun due to his long hair) Close up of his face/hair and this is what they drew Am I being picky or does it really look nothing like what I asked for? to me it looks more like the MC of the third game, which is this guy. Either way, they still didn't even offer to re-draw or edit it, just said it was what I asked for.

Comments

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

You're still within Paypal's window I believe. You should open a dispute against the artist to get your money back.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I feel like its not exactly worth it since its only 1.50$. I'm more so disappointed yaknow?

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

I read your comment to them on their submission of the commission of the incorrect character. I interpreted your comment as being happy with the commission and you didn't even ask them to redraw the correct character. Now, don't get me wrong, the artist really dropped the ball almost every step of the way of the commission process - but if I were the artist, I'd want to know you were displeased to this degree with the commission.

They are in the wrong but I feel it is unfair to make a beware post about an artist but then not even let them know you are displeased with the product. They have absolutely no way of making it right to you if you don't tell them you want the correct character drawn.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I understand that,, im just a very anxious person and was scared of the backlash that they might give me if they hear I was displeased with it. Especially considering they would have to..well... Redraw the entire thing. It's sort of in my nature to try to just pretend I like it,, which, I admit isn't really that great. I wasn't pleased with the outcome at all..I dont even like the third game. But I feel like considering it took them this long to do the one icon and its not even right, if I ask them to redo it I'll be seen as rude at worst and in general I likely wont even get it..

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Without contacting the artist that the image in question is wrong, then they have no means of resolving this beware.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I understand, but please understand I do not think I can force myself to tell them. When I say I am anxious.. I am not lying. I have generalized anxiety which I have to take excessive medication for, and confrontation is... hard. I don't think I can force myself to tell them to re-make it. If others think I should then I may try but... I dont really fancy having a panic attack yaknow?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Hi! I understand you have anxiety, so we decided on a compromise. You can either tell them to do the correct character in more clear terms, or you can choose to save yourself the trouble/anxiety and accept the icon as it is.

If you choose to go with the first option and it's resolved, we'll mark the post resolved as we do. If you choose to go with the second option, that's okay, but we'll remove the Beware tag.

Ultimately, to be fair to the artist, they need a chance to resolve the issue, so we think this is fair. Let us know what you'd like to do!

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

i mean..I dont feel its fair to remove the beware tag since the actual post is about their poor communication and lack of contact. But I guess i'll try to tell them? I dont know how to word it though and it makes me horribly anxious thinking they might straight up deny me or worse.. I feel like me telling them the character was wrong should be enough, just because I was kind about it doesn't mean I liked it yaknow? it is cute, its just not correct. Iunno, maybe im just bad at social cues or something. If its really so important that I tell them then i'd appreciate some help to try and figure out what to say to them without it sounding like im mad

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

If they deny you a refund or a redo, that just validates your beware on them, don't you think?

But at the end of the day, we're here to try and get a resolution for those who post here. I know its hard, but once you do it the ball is in their court.

"While the icon itself is very nice. It still is the wrong character so I was wondering if I could get a redraw of the icon to Sparrow.

I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks!"

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

ahh alright.. i'll go paste that to them and try not to panic too much. Hopefully they dont respond rudely.. I have a feeling that they will say they'll redraw it but just wont. Will it remain "unresolved" until they complete the correct drawing? I've never actually posted here so im not sure how it works.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Please do not do it publicly. I was about to add that in when you replied. At this point it really needs to be kept between the two of you.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

The problem with your original statement is simply that it makes it sound like you're accepting the icon as it is even though you mention it's the wrong character.

I would send them a private note vs. another public comment, as they're more likely to be defensive if they feel like they're being embarrassed publicly. Simply ask them politely if they would be willing to do the icon you actually paid for. If they say no or don't do it, you don't lose anything you haven't already lost, and will definitely merit the beware tag.

If it helps, you can use this:

"Hi! I wanted to note you to ask if it would be possible for you to redo the icon to be what I originally asked and paid for (insert references to character you wanted here). The icon you did do is nice, but it isn't what I asked for. If you would rather not, I would take a refund of the 1.50 to (your paypal account). Just let me know!"

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

ah, thank you.. I'm glad people here are understanding how nerve wracking it can be. I'm just really scared they'll get mad at me, but I'll try noting them. At least through notes if they're rude, they're kept and I can add it.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

They are in the wrong but I feel it is unfair to make a beware post about an artist but then not even let them know you are displeased with the product.

When this item was in the queue it was focused solely on the lack of contact, not the fact that the commission itself was wrong.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

Thanks for understanding. Its mostly about lack of contact and how long it took. The fact that the art is wrong just adds to my displeasure but its not the focus of the beware.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like this shouldn't be posted to the community. Just meant it more as a piece of advice to the poster for the future.

[hunty belmnt (from livejournal.com)]

I read your updates and saw that you did contact the artist asking to redraw the character in question or refund you. This is going to sound harsh, but you really have to speak up if you are not satisfied as a customer, whether if it's $.50 or the cost of a damn car note. I know its hard when you have anxiety, but there are some really awful artists out there that are just out for money and WILL walk all over you, unfortunately.

With that being said, I hope something pans out for you.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I understand, but when an artist fucks me over I sorta just...give up. Especially with something like this. They took months to draw it and it was the wrong character, its barely even worth waiting another 4 months for it to be right since it was just $1.50. plus with my anxiety, it feels not worth the panic attacks of them getting angry at me. But due to what people were saying here, I decided to go ahead and ask them anyways, even though I feel like an ass for doing so...

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

You're entitled to get what you pay for. You're not an ass for trying to assert yourself.

And regardless of the price. Z-flesh answered your ad, so they accepted that whatever job it was would only cost so much.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I suppose you're right. Though they just told me that it is what I asked for when, to me, It looks nothing like it. Maybe i'm just being picky,,

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

Since they are refusing to make it right... if the money matters to you, file a 'item not as described' on PayPal. Otherwise I guess just chalk it up as a loss and don't commission them again.

I think it is deplorable that they are claiming what they drew is what you asked for... when you are saying that it isn't.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I dont think it's worth going to paypal, but I do want the beware to stay up so others know that they are not exactly the greatest to commission. Hopefully others can find this before commissioning them.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I don't understand why they would lie (they acknowledge in the comment chain with you in the submission that it's the wrong character, as well as in their description), but beware well warranted, and they'll be keeping the beware tag for refusing to fix their mistake or refund you (and well.. the lying).

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

Do you think I should tell them that it is not correct? or should I just leave it? I feel like causing more drama is useless since they seem to not be willing to fix it.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

It's really up to you and what you feel like doing.

If it were -me-, personally? I would ask them one more time for a refund and point out to them that they already acknowledged it was the wrong character. If they refused again, I would chargeback, because I wouldn't want them to think it's okay to lie right to my face like that and get paid for it, even if it's a small amount. You can't force them to fix it, but you could still chargeback, and then spend that money on a more responsible artist.

Deciding at this point that it's no longer worth your time is a valid choice, however, especially since it's such a small amount. You've pointed out the problem to them and asked them for a resolution, which was the right thing to do. They chose not to do the right thing. That's on them.

That said, it's not really 'drama'. Please don't write stuff like this off as drama. It's a business transaction.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I agree.. I think I may just let it go. I asked them to fix it and they wont, and I've never dealt with charge backs so i'm not exactly comfortable with doing so incase I do something wrong. They dont even seem to realize what they did was wrong and it seems useless to try and convince them. Thanks for all the help though,, at least the beware is here to warn others.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

This is off topic but for anyone looking at the comparison from what you asked the artist to do and what they provided you can't really tell without a deviantart account. I went to load up the link and it won't show anything without signing in. I don't know if you want to upload it elsewhere though since it's not your art to distribute.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

hey thanks for letting me know! not sure why it'd do that, but since Ipaid for it, I feel its alright for me to re-upload. So I did so to the site i used before, gyazo. try the link now and it should work!

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Alright, I see it now.

I don't think the end result looks a lot like the character you wanted but I also think sometimes stylistically it's hard to make a human character very distinct in a headshot, especially if you aren't used to doing face studies. I wonder if part of this might be the artist's level of skill, since they got some of the core features right (mainly the hair, skin color) but their face style is not very visually distinct.

It makes me think that if they try again I don't know if they could get closer to what you want. Does most of their faces look normally like that? It might be a typical product for their skill level.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

They stated in the description that the character is from Fable 3, not Sparrow from Fable 2.

"This character is a hero from one of the games I used to play, "FABLE 3"."

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I see, I am not sure why the artist did it though. I think it can be edited to look more like the other character (mostly color correction, eyebrows and squaring the chin) but I couldn't really tell what was different otherwise (since you got a white-skinned human with brown hair that parts in the middle).

Edit: That's up to the artist, though whether to refund, redraw, or edit.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

another thing is i specificall stated i wanted him to have a pony tail or hair bun since his hairs long, and they didn't do that,, the hair is also parted wrong and his eyes are a much brighter, icy blue. then again, this may just be because I know the character well and im picky? im not sure.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Pony tail is definitely doable at that angle. I kind of wonder if the artist wasn't paying a lot of attention because of how cheap the commission was. I do hope you get what you want.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

yeah thats what I was thinking. Iunno, it's just disappointing. Thankfully a friend of mine drew the character for me so I got an icon. It's just disappointing it wasn't from the artist I wanted and paid for.

[kstormcrow.livejournal.com]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about this one; while I agree on the general sentiment of the wait and shoddy communication being completely unacceptable, I feel like the 'wrong character' part is a lot shakier.

When looking at the commission art as compared to the two characters in question (hero of Fable 2 and hero of Fable 3), the commission looks a LOT more like the requested character; the character's bangs are long, symmetrical, the eyes are the correct color. Things like the omission of the requested ponytail is obviously an issue, but that part could be fixed up easily enough. It... it really doesn't look like the Fable 3 character at all, from hairstyle to eye color, I think the only way anyone would think that would be based on them putting Fable 3 in the description, which could have easily been them misremembering which Fable game they'd played back in the day when they were younger (it's been quite a while, hasn't it? I never played those games but I think it's been at least a few years since Fable 3 came out, and the artist is 17 now so they were probably a kid at the time).

I think this is a bit more of a matter of expecting a better likeness than the artist could provide at their skill level and with the restrictions of headshot-only (which isn't to disparage the artist, only to say they probably haven't gotten to the point where they're really strong on specific likeness). I'm not saying that $1.50 means the commission doesn't matter, because it does, but it also tends to correlate with a lower level of artist skill and I think in this case that's sort of come around to bite the commissioner in the ass in terms of the character being super recognizable.

I know a lot has been said about 'the artist is lying, they admitted to drawing the wrong one in the comment but then claimed that Sparrow is who they drew in the note!' but I think that's honestly more of a matter of miscommunication than anything. The comment doesn't specify the characters visually, and the artist may have taken the commissioner's word for it that they messed up; in the note they're actually provided with a visual reminder of who Sparrow is, and had the chance to properly realize 'but that IS who I drew'.

Again, I think the communication and delay issues make the beware completely justified, but I think that the 'which character is it' part was a lot shakier and REALLY don't like that the commissioner didn't bother addressing that before posting this, anxiety or no anxiety. I appreciate that the mods required that part to be addressed in order to keep it in the complaint.

Probably wouldn't commission this artist, DEFINITELY wouldn't accept a job from this commissioner.

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

Now that you mention it, I agree that the icon is likely supposed to be the character that OP asked for. Perhaps his ponytail is simply supposed to be behind his head, as it would be in perspective.

OP, this artist still screwed up with the whole process leading to the artwork as far as the long wait and lack of communication go, but I do think this artwork is as good as this artist can do and they tried to match your description as best they could. It's still worth the beware to mention their unprofessional business practices.

I hope this isn't out of line but in future, paying something more like $10+ for an icon will likely net you a better experience (this is what I tend to see icons go for anyway.)

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

Personally I think the artist could of done a bit better to make the likelyness match better (make the bangs morecorrect, the eye colour is way off, actually show the ponytail as requested etc) but I do agree more or less. this beware wasn't even about the art. I never even wanted to ask them to re-do it. But I was told I had too, so I did. The beware was originally made about their lack of communication.

[tinyforestprinc.livejournal.com]

I actually agree with you honestly. The original beware isn't about the character, its about the communication. I was told though I had to ask them to re-draw or fix it when I honestly didn't even want too, so I sorta just did what I was told.

People seem to forget the beware WAS about communication. Thats the sole main focus on it. Yeah, im disappointed how it turned out, and to me,who loves the game, it looks nothing like the character. But to somebody who doesn't know and love the game to me im sure the could see how it looks alike.

all in all. its just a 'well shit' situation. I put the beware out to show others to just be wary since this artist has little to no communication skills and aren't willing to listen to what is asked of them and has poor organization skills. Thats all.

[kstormcrow.livejournal.com]

Okay, well I'm glad that you agree this is primarily about the communication and wait time issues, it seems like the character likeness came up after the fact and perhaps became a bit too much of a focus in the edits and comments until that's the impression that readers get left with-- like I said, the communication issues are definitely something that people should consider, so it's good to have that part out there.

I guess my recommendation would definitely be to look over the gallery of the artist really carefully when doing a commission, and try to consider how well they're going to be able to handle your subject matter; I know in this case they came to you, but I know you probably gave them at least a cursory look before agreeing. Idk how much they have in the way of headshot work, but that can definitely be tricky since a lot of times it's the outfit that can make a character really recognizable unless the person is A+ at faces. If me not being intimately familiar with the character is gonna be the difference between 'that looks like Sparrow' and 'that doesn't look like Sparrow', then it might be the same situation on the part of the artist.

Either way, I hope that you guys can get this resolved properly, and better luck in the future!