Warning, Bad Client: TyVulpine

[inaliwhitewolf.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone!

I wanted to alert you of a client that I just had a very negative experience with. I do not know how he will treat other artists in the future, however, I thought people should know of this.

While I am awaiting my other screen name of Spirit Creations to be approved on here, I thought I'd just post on this screen name. Back in early October, I was taking commissions as I was having to move across the country and I needed some extra finances. Cool beans. The commission was for a high-detailed character with background for $100. Normally, I charge $200, but I was having a sale. I also included a free deadline where the commission would be finished in otherwise January or February. TyVulpine agreed to commission me. He paid me and filled out the commission form I sent to him.

In December, Ty sent me a note on FA asking me why his commission hadn't been completed. I reminded him that the commission he purchased had a deadline of Jan/Feb. I said that I am not to be held accountable for his lack of responsibility in reading the journal in its entirety. I stated *very* clearly in that journal that these commissions would be started in January or February. I even used bold print when the deadlines were due so the client would be sure not to miss it. He then noted to me that on my queue, he was last in line. I told him that those were not necessarily in order, but since he was first to pay, I would make sure to start his deadline commission first. After all, that is what is fair. He then replied back that I have no later than February 10th to finish his commission. He and I agreed (wow... demanding a deadline when I already gave free deadlines? That is not very kosher!).

About three or four days ago (Feb 4th, I believe), I was working on his commission sketch and I had to ask him a few questions about his character, as his references were confusing. This is what he replied back to me on February 5th:

"Forget the commission. I've waited long enough. "

This is what my TOS (which was linked to in my FA journal *and* it is in huge bold print on the top of my commission form that the client *has* to electronically sign and agree that he/she read the TOS) says:

"It is the responsibility of the customer to make sure the measurements, address, and/or art information is correct. Any problems with shipping, fitting, or incorrect artwork that may occur from the mistake of the customer will not result in a refund or a remake of any art or fursuit item."

and

"The customer must read my rules and guidelines and electronically sign that they have read and agree to my terms on the commission form. If the customer has indeed not read the terms, I will not be held responsible for any miscommunication during the commission process."

Okay...? I do state in my TOS that every client has the right to cancel their commission at any time, but I also state that if I did any work on said commission, that I have the right to deduct whatever amount from their refund. Since I did the sketch, I will be deducting $35. I went to send him a note on FA, and after I thought out everything I wanted to say, I pressed send. He had blocked me on FA. Why was this necessary? So, I emailed him my reply. This is what I said:

"I'm sorry hun, but you clearly stated that I had until Feb 10th to start your commission. It is only Feb 6th. I started your commission on the 4th.

I am well within the deadline that we have agreed upon. It was your initial mistake not to read the journal in its entirety where I stated that all commissions would be finished in Jan/Feb. That is not my fault if you failed to read the journal before agreeing to commission me. However, you did pay first, so I moved you to the top of the deadline list, in which you stated that I had until Feb 10th to do the commission.

Well, here I am, before Feb 10th, and I almost have the sketch finished. I just needed to ask you those few questions regarding your character. It will not take me long at all to color it.

However, you *do* have the right to cancel, as that is clearly stated in my TOS, if that is your wish. However, I will not issue a full refund, as I have completed the vast majority of the sketch. I will complete the sketch and send it to you, if you do wish to cancel. Since you purchased a $100 commission, and sketches are $35 (they are actually higher now, but they were $35 when you ordered from me), then I will refund you $65. As of right now, I am broker than a bum, but I will get the money to you ASAP.

So, we can otherwise finish out this commission or cancel. Please let me know what you wish to do.

Also, why was it necessary to block me from your FA list? Seriously. I will be awaiting your reply.

Inali"

This morning, I received yet another shout on my FA page from him. He said:

"You already know my answer. Paid you right away, ended waiting 3-4 months and ain't seen hide nor hair of commission. No more waiting. You had 2 chances. You don't get a third. All further emails will be deleted unread."

I went to reply back to him that he has no *place* to be issuing me chances because he is the one who wasn't responsible enough to read the big bold print in my journal that stated the commissions would not be started until Jan/Feb. He needs to take responsiblity for his own mistakes. Yes, he WOULD have to wait three or four months for his commission, but that is what the journal clearly stated. January or February deadlines. Of course,  he re-banned me from his FA page. I did everything in my power to appease this client but it seems you can't make him happy.  

This is absolutely infuriating me. I don't care if he wants to cancel. That's fine and that is his right, as stated in my TOS. I'm just angry about the lack of logic here. How am I even supposed to refund this guy if he won't read any of my emails where I ask him how to refund him? The only fault I can see from myself is that I did not completely any of the commissions in January, but I am having issues with the Confuzzled con book cover and have been slammed with that. However, I am still within the deadline right now on all deadline commissions, and even the deadline that he demanded of me.

According to my own TOS, the client stopped the commission, which would only result in a 50% refund. However, since I did quote him $65, I do think it is only fair that I refund him that amount.

WHOA!!!! Actually, I just went through my PayPal history. The client NEVER paid me $100. He only paid me $50 (unless that is why he said I didn't have to paint a background, and to him, $50 was in full), which was half of the commission price. I will refund him $15 after deduction of the sketch price.  At least I have his PayPal address now.

So, if anyone does business with this guy in the future, just be careful with him and make sure he has read all the stipulations before agreeing and signing a contract, which yes, he did sign!

Comments

[alcyione.livejournal.com]

I'm confused - when did he inform you that you had until the 10th to start it? (or am I not reading correctly?)

I'm sorry you had to deal with this guy. It sounds like he's just throwing a little baby temper tantrum. He's not acting reasonably OR professionally.

ALSO! 3-4 months is NOT long to wait on a piece of art. Not long at all, especially considering you do really quality work.

[melloyellowduck.livejournal.com]

I'm confused - when did he inform you that you had until the 10th to start it? (or am I not reading correctly?)

She said he informed her of the due date in December

[spiritcreations.livejournal.com]

Yes, he notified me of the deadline of February 10th in December.

He also just sent me a lovely email saying that I treat my clients horribly (lolwut?) and that all he'd ever see me do is post journals on FA about some TV show or something and that I need to get off my butt and do commissions! He also swore a lot in that email to me. What does TV have to do with doing commissions? I work all the time on commissions (five or six hours a night *after* eight hours of work... usually while I am watching TV! I also upload commissions *constantly,* so I'm definitely not lazy. I think he's one of those clients that expects artists to be machines and work 24 hours a day on their piece of art. Ridiculous.

Either way, he was refunded his $15. He told me he doesn't care about the sketch. I can use it as toilet paper if I want. For honor's sake, I will complete it and send it to him.

Hey! Thanks for the compliment hun. :)

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

I really don't what Spirit thinks of me. She is but one artist. I've had dealings with plenty of other artists, and not one takes 4+ months for a commission, and they all are just as good, if not better, than Spirit. I chose Spirit to do the commission because I wanted a new look for Ty Vulpine. Instead I got a big headache that I didn't need. But what's done is done, and I'm moving on. Spirit can feel free to whine and bitch about this all she wants.

[spiritcreations.livejournal.com]

I am very glad you had a chance to defend yourself, hun.

However, again, the journal said you would have to wait three or four months for the commission. Why did you agree to that when you thought waiting that long for a commission was ridiculous in the first place? That is what I do not understand. You created your own headache hun. I just tried to bend myself backwards to appease you when I did not have to do so. I could have told you "tough crap, it'll be done sometime anywhere in January or February," but I let you demand a secondary deadline and I worked within it.

I don't think anything of you hun, except I will never do business with you in the future, which is cool. I'm sure you don't want to do business with me, either. :) Otherwise, I have nothing against you.

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

(Anyone that wants to see what artists I do like can check me out on FA, same username there. I have about 200+ artists that I'm watching, and have commissioned several of them.)

[armaina.livejournal.com]

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/477614/
http://inaliwhitewolf.livejournal.com/115622.html
Quote: "Commissions will be started in January/February."

I too would like to know why, when it was explicitly stated in her journal that commissions were going to be -started- in Jan/Feb that you somehow felt that you were entitled to demand a due date much sooner. If you didn't want to wait that long you shouldn't have commissioned her.

I would understand the confusion if no start time or time frame in general were given, or if it was well past the start date, but when looking back at the original journals with the offer, this was hardly the case.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

It's perfectly reasonable for a commission to take 4+ months when YOU ARE TOLD BEFORE PAYING THAT IT WILL TAKE 4+ MONTHS.
And why on earth would you agree on a deadline then get pissy before that deadline??

[bladespark.livejournal.com]

Heh. I still say he's a nimrod. And he doesn't seem to have any actual defense or excuse or reason for his behavior other than "I didn't want to wait, waaaah." I would love to see his explanation of why he can't read simple English, since it was made very clear that he was going to wait 4+ months before he gave you a cent. I mean I know what your wait is like, and I've never even commissioned you! (I would someday, but I don't think I can afford you. :P Not that your prices are unreasonable, but that I'm broke!)

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah. It's great hiding behind a computer screen and an alias where you can call people "nimrod" all day long without fear of retaliation, isn't it?

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Wow, what a Bitchy McBitchypants, I'll definitely look out for that one. O_o

I've had the same thing with someone, only they didn't request a deadline. In fact they told me to take my time. I got sick, had a broken boiler, had to take in an abused rabbit but stayed in contact and after a month she demanded money back and claimed she paid more than she did to try and get a bigger refund. Rude bint too.
Wonder if there's any relation ^_~

[thaily.livejournal.com]

As a side-note, my sucky customer also went "OTHER ARTISTS ARE FASTER!" which is completely and utterly irrelevant because one artist =/= another artist and as long as the artists give some warning about how long they take and stay in contact it's all fair.

[space-mutt.livejournal.com]

Ugh, what a baby. You handled this a heck of a lot more polite than I would've.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please refrain from name-calling.

[wyna-hiros.livejournal.com]

Wow at this client. Thanks for the head's up, the warning's definitely warranted.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

i will definitely avoid this person in the future.

[hobokitten.livejournal.com]

This is another person added to my 'Avoid list'.
Not only do they fail to comprehend things that are put right in front of them, which they do agree to by commissioning you, but they seem not to value an artists time.
As you said, we aren't vending machines who sit back and do nothing but draw all day.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

If someone blocked me from contacting them before I had a chance to offer a refund, I wouldn't refund any money at all. >> But that's just me.

How incredibly rude :/ sorry you had to deal with that. I'll definitely be avoiding this person (if I can remember who it is*).


*MODS: my offer to tag entries with people's names and whatnot still stands.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

Wait... and he only paid you HALF on top of that? Uh, what? I suppose he might have been thinking he'd pay the other half when you were done, but unless you two discussed that, that sounds a bit... well.

Needless to say, the fact that he's being so dodgy and noncommittal to painfully apparent information is a bit distressing. I'm very sorry you had to deal with his unprofessional manner in the face of all the information you so helpfully provided.

[spiritcreations.livejournal.com]

I believe he paid me only half because he did not want a background, which is fine. :)

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

Spirit is the ONLY artist I've ever had a problem with about a commission. Other artists like HollyAnn (http://www.furaffinity.net/user/hollyann/), Jon Lupus (http://mysticfox.com/) and Richard Matheson (draws Tales From The Mynarski Forest) and DCS of Ozy & Millie fame I've repeatedly done business with (commissioned or bought art from) and never had a problem with them. Ask them yourselves.

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

I mean you acted like you were running off. Sorry, my mistake.

[spiritcreations.livejournal.com]

You mentioned that I no where posted the conversation you and I had regarding the secondary deadline. Here are the conversations you and I had in December. Do I need to take a screenshot of these to prove their authenticity, too? I'd be more than happy to.

These are direct quotes. Copy and paste. Verbatim.

December 24th from you: Was looking at the current schedule over on your website, and saw that I'm not scheduled until the very end of the list (sometime in Feb at the earliest, if that), and really don't feel like waiting that long, and would like to cancel and get my money back.

Dec 24th from me: Just to let you know, that is the February two months from now, not like... February 2010 or anything.

Also, when I posted those commissions sales, I mentioned in bold print that those commissions would have a January/February deadline and not to purchase if you were not okay with that.

However, if you really want your money back, that is fine and your right. Right now, since it IS the holidays, I'm going to have to do something to come up with your full refund. I'm still in a very bad spot from the move and helping mom with her new doctor as she doesn't have insurance right now, which is why I took those commissions in the first place, but I'll do my best to get the money ASAP.

Please let me know what you want to do. Merry Christmas.

Dec 24th from you: I know it's the holidays, but when you said "Jan/Feb" in the comission info offering, I figured Jan, as I had quickly paid in full and replied to the journal advert quickly, but if you can't come up with the refund money, I'll wait on that, but I'm just not happy seeing my commission in Feb (especially since I had checked there before, and I was the only one listed in Feb, and now there's several others ahead of me, though may just be alphabetical). If I'm near the beginning of Feb, then I might change my mind, if I'm towards the end of Feb, then I don't care to wait. I paid in Nov (I think), and have to wait 3-4 months for something like a simple drawing is IMO unacceptable.

Dec 24th from me: I could slide you in in January since you were one of the first. That is only fair. :) Also, the month deadlines were not in order, just what month I needed to finish them. Since you were one of the first to pay, I can bump you up to January.

Unacceptable or not, I did still note that there was a deadline for Jan/Feb, which you agreed to by accepting a commission. That is a free deadline, which I normally charge for.

Please let me know what you want to do hun!

Dec 26th from you: Okay, I'll wait til Feb 10th, but if there's no sign of it being started, then I'll cancel.

So even though I stated that I could do it in January, you gave me a deadline for Feb 10th. YOU gave me that deadline. Since things were nearly impossible in January for me, I knew I could start the commission in February, as long as I got it done on the 10th. You have absolutely no leg to stand on. I even *updated* you in January regarding all that was going on via my global updates. I know you received them.

[haricotvert.livejournal.com]

I'm avoiding this client completely. not only because of what happened with you, Spirit, but also (and w/ more impact) the way he's responded throughout this post. i'm not impressed by the childishness at all. save it for the playground. when you enter into a business contract, behave businesslike.

[hobokitten.livejournal.com]

This right here.
Most of the time, unless posted several times, or it's something I wouldn't even want to chance dealing with, I would just keep it as a little note. You know a 'Hey, this guy has been a hassle before, so don't prolong it if they start this with you' sort of deal.

But really, after seeing this behavior, I wouldn't want to work with him even if this is the first post about him. His attitude is atrocias and childish. If he had said his piece in a mature and calm manner, I would have shrugged it off.
But they yelling, the snarling, and the blatant lack of respect has just added him to my 'No' list.

[weirdmisty.livejournal.com]

Wow, thanks for the post. After looking through all the wanky comments that this guy's left, I can see he's not someone worth ever doing business with. I'll be sure to pass this post on to my friends so they no to avoid this guy, too.

[feather-dancer.livejournal.com]

Indeed, when you're told Jan/Feb that strangely means January OR Feburary and I find it bizzare it could be read any other way. Plus setting a 10th Feb deadline then complaining before that's even reached it's taken too long refund now. Mean goodness, would it have killed to just wait to the deadline if such a fuss was going to happen?

Definately one I'd avoid, I really dislike the idea of dealing with anyone who will get into an instant swearing fit and abusive when completely innocent. Still got a giggle out of it!

[aerfox.livejournal.com]

Fuck, don't even refund him the $15.

[solid-squid.livejournal.com]

Or just as a set deadline fee, since he set his own deadline outside of the artists and the artist already stated she charges extra for that.

[banka-flavored.livejournal.com]

I am very sorry for what you have been through with this client. They were immature and ignored you're TOS while denying that they did anything wrong. I am going to save this post to my lj memories so to warn other artists if this person tries to commission them.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

I think I see the misunderstanding here, but that does NOT in any way excuse Ty's behavior. Reading the emails, I can understand how one might see this:



"from me: I could slide you in in January since you were one of the first. That is only fair. :) Also, the month deadlines were not in order, just what month I needed to finish them. Since you were one of the first to pay, I can bump you up to January."


As meaning it will be complete in January. I see his adding the Feb 10th deadline out of frustraition, not as a "this is when I want my commission by."

Multiple times now, he did offer the defense that as the first payer, he understood it to mean that he was first in line, and instead found himself last in the que, which he emailed her about. For someone who already had a long wait, this might have seemed irritating, especially if anyone who payed after got theirs first (which I believe was addressed by Spirit that the others were NOT before his). While this is not the best defense, it lets you get into his state of mind and see why he reacted so poorly, and why he "hasn't given a defense." He really has answered, but it seems to be an unacceptable way of answering the question to most people. Not everyone is a good writer or debater, and this needs to be taken into account before blatently attacking someone. Sometimes the best of ones ability isn't enough to appease some people, but that's no reason to call him stupid. To be honest, the bandwagon behavior of some people on here makes me question their own maturity as well.

Tys behavior in this thread is unacceptable and does make me leery. Not because I think that he's incapable of goodd transations, but because I would worry what would happen when things go wrong. Nightmare customers are rarely nightmares every transaction, but it's the ones that go awry such as here that are a good indication of a person's character.

If Ty were to understand that this was a misunderstanding and give an honest apology with an explaination of why his behavior was wrong (after all, it is stressful seeing a post about you and it's easy to see how to better react only once the dust settles) then I would consider this to be a misunderstanding and a case of someone feeling attacked, thus regaining some of my respect.

Cliff version:
-Ty has posted an argument and it did make some sort of sense
-was last in que, didn't understand why and asked, was told January as completion month (that's how I read the email that was posted by Spirit)

-some people have been just as big of ases as him
-I'm sure if Ty were to calm down (hard with all the insults in his direction) and think about it I'm sure he'd apoligize, but feels too attacked to really consider the matter
-apology = gaining my respect.

[spiritcreations.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I don't care that Ty wanted to cancel his commission. In fact, it made things a bit easier on me this month. I even state in my TOS that clients have the right to cancel. :) It was his attitude towards me that made post here. I'm sure he has had great transactions before and will have good ones in the future, but if things do go wrong, like you said, it could possible turn into this.

Even thought I said I could slide him up in January, which yes, I did say and even pointed out in other posts here, he did give me a deadline of Feb 10th. He has no right to blame me for taking long when he knew of my Jan/Feb deadline, and especially since he gave me a deadline of Feb 10th. He was the very first deadliner sketched, which I told him repeatedly. Out of all of the Jan/Feb deadlines, I sketched him first. January was a very difficult month for me in all aspects (in which I updated all of my clients, including Ty, about), but as long as I was within my Feb 10th deadline, I'd be good as gold... so I thought. X3 I just didn't like his attitude and his constant blaming me for taking so long when I clearly stated that the commission did have a 3-4 month wait. I also didn't appreciate him demanding a deadline of Feb 10th, which I believe he had no right to do. I said Jan/Feb in my initial journal and that should have been final. Jan would be nice, but Feb still counts, too. :)

I hope that your post does enlighten others of Ty's defense. I also understand what he is saying, which is why I had been trying to do everything I could for him. If he had remained calm with me, I wouldn't have posted any of this. Even today, after the transaction was canceled, I sent him his sketch and asked if he wanted anything changed or if he liked the sketch. He took it as a peace offering, which it wasn't, and said he might think about having me correct the sketch if I take down this LJ entry (which I don't believe you can here, I think the mods have to do it). I did refuse to take down this entry. I did the sketch, so I kept $35. Since I did do the sketch, I believe it is only right I make sure the client likes it. I do hope that he has more pleasant transactions in the future and I'm glad you were able to see his side of the story and post in his defense on what he was trying to say. It's sad he just couldn't say that to begin with.

[tyvulpine.livejournal.com]

This incidet has been put to rest with an apology from me to her.