Update: Silver Frostpaw/strykerfrostpaw/silverrieko

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

UPDATE: This issue has been resolved! See the update at the bottom of the entry.

Back again, posting an update on my dealings with Silver Frostpaw, who commissioned me back in the spring of 2009 for two con badges. You can view my original post here.

I emailed Silver a while after I posted here and sent him a link to my entry. Needless to say, he was NOT happy that I had brought the issue up in public and accused me of "ruining" him for other artists. He also suggested that I should learn about the situation he is in before I go saying things about him. My issue was, I had no idea what his situation was because he cut all contact with me.

Our full correspondence is behind the cut.

Here is this reply to my email with the link to my first A_B entry. Immediately he went on the defensive, even though I never accused him of trying to scam me in the entry.


Just a short time later (before I had a chance to reply to his first email), he sent this. He had calmed down and said he would like to pay me for the badges. That's great. He also claimed that he has had little or no Internet access, but managed to reply to me twice on the very same day I sent him the link. :\


Here is my reply. I was polite but VERY firm and VERY clear. At this point I have had enough and want this over and done with. I told him that I did not believe I could finish the badges because when I compare the sketches to the work I am doing now, I consider the work sub-par. Yes, I do still have the sketches and am keeping them safe until this is resolved. He replies saying that he will pay for the sketches AND that he wants to commission me again sometime later.


Here I informed him of the total owed and my PayPal address. He agreed to pay me by May 18th. I also declined his request for another commission sometime in the future.


Aaaaand, that was the last I heard from him for quite some time! I was getting used to this. Fearing that this was going to be more of the same, I sent him a polite reminder on the 18th with the total and my PayPal address.


Still no reply on the 19th. I sent another, firmer email. At this point $17.00 worth of groceries would have been welcome in my barren refrigerator, hence my somewhat desperate tone. I was getting very annoyed. I was hungry, stressed, had two sketches that I wanted to mail out. I told him that I would give him a week, and then I would be posting to A_B.


A week went by. Here is the last email I sent him on May 28th, once again giving him the amount owed and my PayPal address.


He replied stating that he could not pay using PayPal even though that was what we had agreed on back in May of 2009. Note: I realize that the price mentioned in that cap is different. That is because the bubble-envelopes I send completed badges in are more expensive. I make it very clear to all of my customers that I am in Canada and only take PayPal for international orders as it costs me money to cash a US check or money order. I was getting more and more frustrated... every email from him was a string of excuses.


He then asked me to wait a little longer because he did not have the money just yet. Okay... this is progress, I suppose. I took that as a good sign and gave him until June 4th. He was happy about this, said it was fine. I had high hopes. Here I explained to him that had he told me that his life had gotten rough I would have gladly put his commission on hold.



Here is where things finally started to click for me. He was sweet and eager to please as long as I got off of his back about it. He was just buying himself more time, hoping I would forget about it or give up. Unfortunately for him, I am a very stubborn lady and I don't take kindly to getting screwed over. Notice that the only time he replies to my emails is when I am threatening to take the issue back to A_B. I HATE doing that... I cannot stress that enough. However it was the only thing that got him talking to me. As long as I agreed to give him more time, he was polite and fine. The moment I began pressing for payment, he clammed up and blamed his lack of Internet. Yet... he replies to my "threats" within hours of me sending them despite claiming to have limited 'net access.

June 4th came and went. I sent him an email late in the day on the 4th. At this point, I was ticked. The thing was, I knew it was coming to this. Yes, I admit that in some of the following emails I am blunt and cold, and even nasty. I'm not proud of it but I think that my annoyance was more than justified at that point.



Sorry about getting the same email in there twice D: . Here he demanded that I take down my previous warning post about him as soon as I get the payment. Alarm bells, much? I told him that I will not be taking it down as that's grounds for a ban. Moreover, I think that YES, even if I get payment this DOES warrant a warning to the community! He also said that he does not want the sketches, but as I have his address I do intend on mailing them out as soon as (if) I receive what I am owed. I owe him that much and I intend that he gets what he paid for, if he does indeed pay. Part of the $17.00 is for shipping, after all.



And that was literally it. No contact was made on or after June 4th. I will no longer be chasing Silver as every time I get the same string of excuses and lies. Yes, I do understand that he went through a tough time this past year. Shit happens. That does not excuse the fact that he ignored my emails until I threatened to post here, broke payment deadlines several times, and played the victim every step of the way. He acted like I was bullying him when all I wanted was payment for the work I did for him. I was more than patient up until the very end.

My opinion is that every artist should be careful when dealing with him, even when receiving payment in full up front. His communication is spotty and vague and he will use every excuse in the book (no money, school, work, crappy Internet). At first I did not believe that Silver was actively trying to scam me and I still feel that he was being honest when he first contacted me for this commission. However, at this point I consider him little more than someone trying to dodge a check.

The thing that grates me the most with this situation is that he did not apologize ONCE for his behavior until the very end, and it was buried in yet another heap of excuses. Everything is everyone elses' fault with this guy. Avoid at all costs.

Many apologies for the wall of text!

UPDATE:

Silver sent me a few angry emails last night after I sent him a link to this post. I don't think I need to clarify these any.


Here is the PayPal receipt as proof of payment. I have edited out his name for privacy's sake. As you can see even now, he is asking me to take down the entry.


Needless to say, I'm happy that I finally got what I was owed but the whole situation left a nasty taste in my mouth. I would not recommend working with this individual.

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

We mods appreciate you telling him no go on the removing of the post. There's no good reason to remove posts, and people trying to bully others into removing posts about them is just all the more reason to warn about them!

You've handled this entire situation very well and I agree. He's just trying to avoid paying you.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

I found it very important to mention! If he's pulling that garbage with me he'll likely try it with someone else and I want it out in the open for EVERYONE to see.

[shynanigans.livejournal.com]

I find it really weird that he makes these claims of no internet, when it says right on the emails that he's using his phone for that. Yeah, it's a monthly bill, but...it just seems fishy to me, like he was just avoiding you. I also don't understand why birthdays are such a big thing, and why people use them as excuses for just about anything. No matter the day, if you owe something, you owe something, and most businesses aren't going to cut you some slack just because of your emotional/financial situations. Commissions are business, even if closer to home or more personal.

For the record, this is one of the easiest posts to read and comprehend that I've ever seen on here. Kudos.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I agree, it's a very well-written post.

[hobokitten.livejournal.com]

And if it's an Iphone, you just have to bum off someone else's wireless connection. No need for the fancy 4G stuff.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

LOL on the birthday thing, agreed. My birthday was the day we had to put our garbage out here last year. :)

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

You want to know something funny? I read the Blackberry signature at the bottom of each and every email and it never really clicked that he was replying from a wireless device (and able to jump online just about everywhere!) until you brought it up. I feel dumb. :D

Also, I'm pretty sure the whole reason he brought up his birthday was in hopes that I would forget the whole thing as a "gift".

[taasla.livejournal.com]

The fact that he wanted to use the payment as a reward for pulling the post down is enough for me not to accept his commissions.

[hobokitten.livejournal.com]

The fact that he tried to use payment as incentive for you pulling this down is a huge red flag for me. I'd say it is a peeve even.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Disgusting, really.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

I read your original post, it was nothing but professional even in the face of frustration. E-cookie for that!

Towards the end, it really did seem to me like he was trying to stiff you. I hope you get your money!

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

At this point, I don't want his money. I don't want anything to do with the guy. I sent him a link to this entry saying as much.

And thank you for the E-cookie! :D

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Well, as far as his bit on not having internet, his posts all have "sent on my Verizon blackberry" at the bottom, which I suppose he COULD have added himself, but it does kind of go with the no internet excuse.

Not that I'm dismissing this or anything. Or saying he's in the right. He's totally an ass because what the hell with the "I can pay Paypal, no wait, can't. Oh wait, yeah, here give me your address AGAIN." Bullshit.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

"Hey you'll get your money don't worry!!"
"hey can you re-send me your Paypal?"
"Sorry! family issues! Don't worry though you'll get your money!!"
"Resend the Paypal please!!"
"Sorry, internet issues! Resend Paypal please!"

Buying time hoping she'll give up on him.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Second paragraph of my comment does say that I totally say he's bullshitting it all. I just pointed out that he doesn't necessarily have internet if he's posting from his phone.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Oh I agree totally

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

His email is a Gmail address, too. It automatically archives everything in a big long thread unless you actively delete them. Sooo... the only reason he would be losing my PayPal info would be if he were purposefully deleting the MANY emails that contain that info.

The breadcrumbs, they are many! :D

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

This is why you always. Always accept money beforehand.
I accept the money and then stream on livestream for the artist.

Don't let people walk all over you. Demand the money up front and deal with him like you would any other commissioner.

As Exunod once said
"I'm a little doormat, sit and stay. Let people use me every single day"

Sorry you had to deal with all that ]:

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

Seriously. Looking back at all that I feel like a fool. It really figures that this is one of the very, VERY few times that I waited on payment until after the sketches were done!

Believe me. I'm TOS'd up the wazoo now. With order forms! And check-boxes! :D

[tillieyo.livejournal.com]

I am really sad to read this. I consider him a friend and he's never seemed like this type, to me. I have a lot to think about.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

Thank you for replying to my original post and shedding some light on why he disappeared initially! It did help me out quite a bit.

He might very well be a perfectly nice person IRL and I hope this situation doesn't foul your friendship. I just wouldn't trust him professionally, that's all.

[chaimeleon.livejournal.com]

(Cyn, people really need to take notes from this post and how clear and easy to read it is.)

Echoing others' sentiment that the whole "YOU GOTTA TAKE IT DOWN" thing is... ew. VERY blackmail-y. :/

As for the emotional stuff- just because things happen someway or another does not excuse his behavior- he has set up a contract with someone and needs to follow through. The power company won't let him skip a bill cuz his boyfriend has dumped him, nor should an artist. It's him that chose to purchase something for that person, and if he no longer wants it doesn't mean YOU didn't work on it!

[marlinkhylacat]

"And if this gets paid, that LJ post is to be taken down immediatly"

Love how he says IF he pays, not WHEN. I think his Freudian slip is showing....

[merlin-the-wise.livejournal.com]

yeah really

[neive.livejournal.com]

Nice to know I'm not the only one that noticed that gem haha.

[lichdog.livejournal.com]

Holy cow, what a handful x(


You took care of it really well, your professionalism shined through your emails. Seriously, great job :3

[thedancingemu.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with this, Coyote, you have more patience than I do :|

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

thanks for the heads up :3 (I don't think I will have him ever commission me anyways but still)...His grasping for excuses was amusing and annoy at the same time o_O;;...

Sounds like he needs to really look into his finacials if shits hit the fan...set his priorities first too...Like I owe ____ money I will set that up before I go out and spend it on a nice new shiney DVD....

But he also could be lying straight through his teeth and not being having any of these said problems at all...and just doesn't want to pay =\

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

Haha, thanks for the compliment! My anal-retentiveness comes in handy sometimes I suppose! I have a hell of a time understanding posts here sometimes, and screencaps always help. SAVE EVERYTHING! :D

Also, yes... it's definitely still a beware. There's no way I'm not sharing it with you folks. I cross-check the tags here whenever someone commissions me (or when I want to commission someone) just in case and I know others do the same. Now it's on the record and it's not going anywhere!

[litheauyer.livejournal.com]

Grats on getting this sorted out! And I agree with everyone else; this was very easy to read.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I've marked this as resolved. However, given how he handled the situation and how he responded to being on here (I don't know if he understands we're not your 'friends' and thus we're mostly unbiased), and still seems more upset about being caught up in his lies than anything, I'm leaving the beware tag on unless you particularly object. He paid you, but I still very much feel he's someone to beware of, so it seems fitting.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

I do not object one little bit. I definitely think this is still a beware, even if I received my money. I approve of this idea wholeheartedly!

I had a chuckle at the friends comment as well. I haven't spoken to 90% of you folks before now. ;)

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

Oh, by the way. Should I go back and edit my original entry as well? I wasn't sure what the rules were about that.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

You can, but it's not required. It might be helpful to update it and link to this entry, but generally if people go looking through the tags, they'll see all the entries, so it's not totally necessary.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

Right-o, I'll go do that. Thanks for your help. :)

[marlinkhylacat]

Wow, he actually managed to make himself look WORSE when he paid what he owed. :/ Definitely one to avoid.

[coyote-feathers.livejournal.com]

I agree. It's a pretty weird situation. Coyote is a big meanie poopoo-head for wanting to buy groceries! :D