Paypal fees?

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

This has already been been discussed in this community before- who should pay the fee, the commissioner or the artist? The general agreement seems to be, factor paypal fees into your initial commission price to cover it, because it is the artist who should pay the fees and not the commissioner, as by PayPal's TOS. However, there are many artists I've met who do not seem to have read/know PayPal's TOS and their prices are not factored for the fees.

What should a commissioner/artist do in a situation where, a commissioner sends money thinking an artist has factored in fees, but in fact hasn't payed what the artist was wanting (i.e., an artist wants 4.00$, they only get 3.58$)? It seems like one of those situations that could get ugly if not treated with care. Which is why so far I, as a commissioner, have been paying fees most of the time when buying a commission.

Would the artist have the right to withhold artwork until the full fee has been paid? Or does the commissioner have the right to the commission because it is the artist's own hindsight and ignorance that got them out of some money? I haven't had this situation myself yet but I feel as though this kind of thing will happen at one point or another. Is it a courtesy for the commissioner to send more money despite the TOS or should the artist, well, just suck it up because it is due to their own ignorance of the TOS?

Edit; I suppose the easiest solution for an artist who will not give you art until you pay more money is to open a dispute.

However, let's say you told them all this but they ignore your warning about the TOS. Should you report someone for breaking the TOS by making your customers pay the fees? Is there even a way to do so?

Comments

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I always tell the commissioner to pay the fees. I'm making art for them., they're paying me for my talents, I should not be paying their fees. I'm supposed to be making money, not paying 50 cents every time. [50 cents adds up, guys!!]
Imagine if someone bought a 20$ commission off me.
Sorry but I just lost 2$ out of my own pocket because someone doesn't wanna pay the fee. :\

Always tell em to pay the fees.
http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

[...]it is the artist who should pay the fees and not the commissioner, as by PayPal's TOS. This is not a question of WHO should pay them, but what happens if the artist does not know that they should pay them.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Ohh
Tell them to pay it. I guess :\

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

Raise your prices then, fees and stuff count as overheads and thus are part of your base costs like say materials, new pens and pencils and packaging , if your prices aren't enough to cover your base costs plus provide a decent wage for you then they're too low.

[sovy.livejournal.com]

Just raise your prices to account for the Paypal fee. Either way someone is paying for the fee so you might as well do it in a way that doesn't annoy Paypal and open yourself to some troll reporting you.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

....... What?

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

If you openly state that you're charging X amount plus the PayPal fee, anyone can report you to PayPal and have your account suspended. Or so people have said.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I include the fee in the price.

Example
$26.33

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That will not get your account into trouble. :] You can have all of the $10.51 transactions in your account that you want and state that you're charging a "Gerbil Fee", but the second that "Gerbil Fee" becomes a "Paypal Fee" is when trouble starts.

(Wow, that was a terrible run-on sentence, sorry!)

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

Yes, but you can't say that you're including it.

"My price is $26.33." That's fine.
"My price is $26.33, and that includes PayPal fees." That's not fine.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Ohh okay
Thanks!

[sovy.livejournal.com]

Oops, looks like you were doing it all along! Now I get it. :)

[killercacti.livejournal.com]

the fees don't belong to the commissioner though, they belong to you for using paypal as your payment service. stores have to pay a fee to credit and debit card companies to utilize their services; because of this they factor the cost of these fees into their prices. if they don't want to pay the fees, they don't take credit/debit.

that being said, it's fine if you're discussing a commission with a customer and charge them $5.50 or whatever to cover the fees. but if you charge them $5 and then say "oh hey you owe me 50 cents for paypal's fees," that's not cool

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I charge them including the fees.
Like 5.50.

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

Wait...you include the fees in your price but, "I always tell the commissioner to pay the fees."?

So...if it were 5.50, you would tell them to pay the fees. Which means they are actually paying more than you're charging by having to spend 5.97...

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Example: $26.33
The commission costs $25.00
The fee is what makes it $26.33
I tell them that's what the fee is.
I hope I explained it well, I'm about to go to bed

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

Ah, so you still pay the fee on your end, they're not paying the fee twice by having it in the price and clicking 'I will pay the fee', gotcha.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

No, they do.
|:
They don't pay the fee twice. I know because I check how much I get & I always know exactly how much is in my paypal.

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

Well now I'm just confused... If they click that they are paying the fee and send you 26.33 to cover fees on your end that you must pay, they would paying an extra 1.06$ to send your 26.33...

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

No
26.33 is the total including fees
yes its weird i know but i've always recieved the exact amount

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

Well I can only speak from the paying end, I've never received money over paypal so I wouldn't know how it works on an artist's end...so no clue how that works, but if it works out all well...that's what's important.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

http://www.rolbe.com/paypal.htm

In this case, $26.33 comes down to $25 after fees plus the cross-border payment.

[korsetkoat.livejournal.com]

The way it was worded in the very first post I thought that they had it factored into their price AND still told the customer to pay the fee, though if the customer sent only that, paypal would take away the fees when transferring the money automatically, right?

[nambroth.livejournal.com]

Not to be a jerk, but you're not paying their fees. You are paying YOUR fees... the fees that the service charges you for using it. Just as a credit card merchant account works.
It's really easy... just raise your asking price by whatever percentage you usually get dinged on for fees. Roll it into your price instead of tacking it on at the end, if that makes sense.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I do :)