Commissioners not giving much info?

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I'm extremely sorry if this has been posted before! I tried to check, but I'm pretty tired and may have missed it.

What do you do if a commissioner doesn't give tons of info, then asks for changes to a sketch, inks, etc? Though I get asked mostly during the sketch stage. I know that when it isn't a big deal, especially on a sketch, you might as well just do it. But what if it's something bigger or you don't have a lot of time on your hands?

What I mean is, let's say they ask for something specific, like a pose. You asked for a ref picture since you weren't sure what they wanted. Instead they say they could just describe it, but not say much about it, then don't like what you sketched.

Or, another situation, they ask for specific colors or clothes, then change their mind later.

If I'm not making too much sense, please let me know and I will explain differently.

Comments

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

If they start out saying "I want this pose/clothing/colours" then change their mind after you sketch it, I would likely charge a fee unless it was quite easy to fix. I have a max of 3 changes anyway before I start charging for revisions ($8 each).

If you don't think they are giving enough info, you just need to press them for it. And if they still won't and then complain, have it in your terms that you can start charging them. I offer 2 full resketches then charge $15 a time after. Make it clear to them that the more detail they provide, the closer you can get to what they want, and the less chance of incurring extra fees.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much the same as above. I do make a point to say "When I asked for info, you said _____, and it's not really my issue if you've changed your mind"

I offer 3 changes, then a 5$ fee (i should probably up that to 10$ sometime soon) for each change after

[thaily.livejournal.com]

On a sketch, sure. I ink after the sketch is approved, so I don't make any significant changes after or during inking. Colouring I can only change if it's digital, so no go there either without (quite a lot of) additional payment.

If they want a lot of changes you need to charge extra and tell them to wait longer for the additional work to be done.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

I tend to coax it out of them as much as possible before I even put pencil to paper. Comes with experience, you learn what you're going to need later as far as descriptions go.

*edit to add*, depending on the piece they get a certain amount of free changes in sketch phase. I take in on a case by case basis or based on the size/price of the commission. Pretty much if I keep asking them for details and they won't give any, and then they say its wrong I will remind them of what they told me so they know what I had to work with. Usually that will result in a very sheepish "I'm sorry you can leave it as it is" or "I'm sorry just this change and then it will be fine" or they'll pay for more changes. Generally I've had good luck with just being honest that hey, I need all you can give me in order to give you what you want.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Lot of people have a "___# free revisions" policy, after that they charge. I think that'd work well in this kind of case.

[kalika-tybera.livejournal.com]

As others were saying above, I'd charge an extra fee after a certain number of revisions.

I used to get this issue a lot, but I've since started using commission forms (you can make 5 free ones on Formsite.com and it's really easy) where they have to fill in all the fields and I make them required so if they try to leave one blank and try to submit the form (which gets emailed to me) it'll tell them they have to fill it out first.
That way it's harder for them to be vague.
This is what one of my forms looks like:
http://fs17.formsite.com/KalikaTybera/Conbadges/

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Have you ever had commissioners complain about your form? I made up my own form a while back and the first two commissioners I asked to try it out seemed intimidated by it, even though yours demands more info than mine.

[xylophagous.livejournal.com]

Where's yours? Just curious, I can tell you if I see anything too demanding if you want. Although people might just feel intimidated that they have to type something out vs shooting a note with a character reference People are lazy, myself included. (But then again I don't think I've ever asked for changes on any art I've gotten)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I do have a reference picture part and I make the desc optional if they have a good reference sheet.

I'm actually gonna make an entry here in a few minutes asking for critique on it if you wanna look out for it!

[the-lest.livejournal.com]

Perhaps they're intimidated because they have to write more? Bearing in mind I haven't seen your form... but for example if the form just asks for an answer to "hair:" then they have to write something like: "long, reaches the base of her spine, wavy but not too curly, red colour with orange highlights, long bangs", whereas it would be easier with a longer form to write something like:
hair length: long (to base of spine)
colour: red w/ orange highlights
style: curly, with bangs.

Same info, but the form does a lot of the actual thinking and figuring out for them, and it's not so easy for them to miss or forget things. :)

[kalika-tybera.livejournal.com]

Nope, I've never had someone say anything or complain about my form (although I do require it if they want a commission, it's where I get a copy of them agreeing to my ToS which is important to have in the files just in case).

Honestly, if someone isn't willing to take an extra couple minutes to fill out a form that will supply me all the info I need to get their commission done as accurately as possible (because I DO want to make sure they're happy with the result) then I probably wouldn't want to accept the commission anyways.
The form makes it such that I don't have to email them 5 more times to ask simple details that should have been in the initial email (people always used to leave out important things, sometimes even gender or species of the character!). I think having a clear cut form actually saves time, even though it may take a couple extra minutes initially, and it's a great way to keep information organized and clean so I can reference it without missing details.

[the-lest.livejournal.com]

Hahah, got to love it when they leave out super important stuff like the gender and species... and then show you reference images where it's impossible to tell XD

[thaily.livejournal.com]

"Hahah, got to love it when they leave out super important stuff like the gender and species"

This.

Also, giving an incredibly detailed description of their genitalia in both regular and aroused state for a badge commission or something. And then not mentioning stuff like eye colour.

[the-lest.livejournal.com]

woah, luckily I haven't had that particular experience yet since I only take commissions once in a blue moon.

Also love it when they use poetic descriptions. Like saying "topaz coloured eyes" or "summer coloured hair" XD

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

That happened to me too. No one directly said anything, but you could tell. I didn't like you could only have 5 forms filled out at a time for free though, since I need more. I stopped using it and put a form on my FA instead and told them to go back if they forgot something. But, that too is still intimating. So I use tiny little ones sometimes.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

It's funny because it's all information we'd be needing and asking for anyway.. but something about putting it on a form seems to scare people away.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I think it has to do with it being so...business like? It's of course, good to be as business like as possible, but people are more comfortable getting to talk to you personally. Which is what I do now unless I do like, special discounts in my journal, where I ask for a small form to be filled out.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I figured that. But I take commissions so rarely and I suppose I'm okay with one or two people being a little intimidated if it means the rest follow through, since this is SO MUCH MORE convenient for me. It all goes to my email and then I can label it and go back to it, instead of having to search through different emails to find tidbits of information like before. I hated that.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I hated it too. I use gmail now, so all my emails with the one person are stacked together. Easier to find info.

[kalika-tybera.livejournal.com]

Well, I do this for a living, so for me it is business. I do of course deal with the customers personally beyond the form (I always give updates and approval sketches, etc), but it's just easier and safer for me to cover myself with the forms and the ToS. I've been using them for almost a year now and never had anyone scared off to my knowledge, thankfully.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Whatever works best :3 I might go back to forms later on, but I kinda like just using gmail more personally at the moment. It is a business for me too, but I've only been doing it for a year and I'm really young, so I guess it's just a bit different.

The only thing I do hate about the form site though, is that only 5 forms could be filled out for free. I usually get more commissions then that.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I get around that by having results sent to my email, and then just deleting the results stored on formsite itself. It doesn't need to keep them if I already have a copy. That frees it up and you can use the form indefinitely that way.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I used to do that too, but um, accidentally deleted it since I was used to cleaning out my hotmail ^^;

I think I might be better with my gmail though, since I don't delete a thing.

[pekingfoxie.livejournal.com]

I really like that order form. Good idea, I think I will start to use one too.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

If they want something changed insist on specifics, like a reference image for the pose or the hex code for the particular colour. If they're being vague when they obviously have envisioned something specific for what they want it to be it's really not helpful. I think sometimes commissioners don't realise that artists aren't mind readers =p
It is best to just politely explain that reference images are best as there's less room for error when you have a visual aid.

As for me I've never had to charge for revisions because I've never had anyone who wanted anything altered drastically, just minor tweaks. Most people either allow multiple revisions during the sketch phase but once it's inked don't change the lines, or allow only X revisions, and the only exceptions to these are when the artist has got something wrong about the character.

[solalia.livejournal.com]

Oh gods I hate that. I start charging if it gets excessive. If I make a mistake I will happily fix it for free, but if it's just a fickle customer? I'm not going to end up billing myself out at $2 an hour because they want 100 changes. I know you want to be accommodating, but don't fall into the trap of giving your work away for next to nothing.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Oh no worries, I do have rules about each stage in a commission. But I've just heard from people that when it's just a small or easy change, it's better to do then not. Good customer service, ya know? But I wasn't sure what to do if it's worse then that.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

I charge 'em for major revisions, charge 'em after a certain number of small revisions.

If they couldn't be clear, they need to cough up the dough for changes. If I'm not at a salaried company, then they don't get to treat me like it, lol.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

if they ask for a change to a sketch, that's fine. no big. just don't let it get too ridiculous; if there are a lot of revisions you are within your right to ask for more compensation, i think.

i am more firm on changes made to something completed.

i recently had a customer i ended up refunding, partially, because revisions were continually asked to be made on a completed project. they approved the sketch, i completed the work, and *then* they started asking for changes. i did charge extra for revisions but after too many i realized i just wouldn't be able to do what they wanted after all.

tl;dr sorry

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I have a commission form that I've been trying out. Apparently, asking for all the information you'd need to make an accurate commission confuses most commissioners. It's frustrating because I look over the form and it's all stuff I need to know, so I'm not really sure how I can change it to make it more friendly. It's all stuff I'd have to ask them at some point.. why not get it up front?

You can use formsite to make a form for your commissioners to fill out. Otherwise, the other commentors have given good suggestions. Just don't let yourself be taken advantage of!

[the-lest.livejournal.com]

You could always do a sample form, fill it out for your own character so that you can show them what it should look like, and give them an example of the type of thing you are looking for. It might also make them feel more at ease to know that the person they're commissioning has done the form too. I find it can sometimes help. :)

[skogul.livejournal.com]

Typically, if someone doesn't give me enough info or reference to work with, I'll ask if they can give me a bit more, usually specifying details which they didn't expand on so I get a better idea of what they want. Saves time dealing with revisions and whatnot later.

If the client is particularly anal about things and wants a ton of revisions, I have been known to tack on a few extra bucks just for the additional labor. I've never really had anyone change their mind so much that it made them impossible to work with but, if I did end up being commissioned by someone who just was never satisfied with what I showed them, I'd suggest maybe I wasn't the right artist to work for them and maybe they need to look around for another who can better address what they're asking for.

[misteroffense.livejournal.com]

With my commissions I have instated a 'change fee'. I ask that commissioners give me ALL required info in a note. If they leave something out of the note that they ask me to change later, then the fault is their own and not mine. So...I ask them for a small inconvenience fee to change their commission (note that I usually don't bother with a fee if it's still a sketch).

I do animated icons (and larger animations) so it's a REAL pain to change things once animation is completed. So my fees can be a little steep (in some people's opinions) as much as $5-10 extra for a change.

That's just what I do. I'm sure there are other solutions. But if you do the fee, post a journal stating that you will now be charging a fee if people want to make changes later or 'forgot' something so that you can refer back to it later (and don't have to retype it to everyone who commissions you).