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artists_bewareI had posted here about a month ago. ( http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/417996.html ) Was having some trouble with the commissioner. About a year ago I was commissioned to do a mask with LED eyes. Nothing complex and the first payment came in quickly and so I started. I usually send progress shots to the commissioner as I go along and things went well enough. They watched me pretty much each day on Skype so they saw the progress of their mask so no progress shots were needed.
They were on a payment plan since they had no job and were on a state paid welfare of some kind. Disability I think. Anyways. They acknowledged my payment plan rules (the initial $125 is nonrefundable as it is used for the materials. Once sculpted and approved, I move onto casting and furring. Once I'm to that stage, the commissioner sends payment two and so on, reserving the final $125 for shipping, etc. They pay me in intervals while I work. All commissioners acknowledge this and have paid me without the need of reminding. I had stated verbally several times, reminding them, making sure I got a response that they understood)
Thing is, I never once received any money in the meantime. The head was close to being finished (only needed the ears attached, back of the head, and mohawk. Since I hadn't received any more payments, I stopped and waited for payments. I told them but still, none came. I worked on other commissions. They left notes asking for more pictures and I sent them one showing where it was at.
Previously that year I had sent them a pair of video goggles in agreement that they would either replace them or pay me back. that so far has not been addressed. They had been living on their credit cards and were close to filing bankruptcy. Still, I finished the head and waited. We talked through notes and they told me that they were seeing the debt help folks and that an account of their was frozen. They said the debt help people had told them that placing me on the list of debts would most likely make it so they would not get the help. he discussed it with them and they said they would turn a blind eye and put me on the list. That right there flew a red flag. They say they can pay me in full via Paypal. I also know that using a credit card with Paypal, that if something happens with either deal, the money can be removed back out of my account and have an investigation started.
They told me that they had planned on going into deeper debt to pay me but if all this is happening I have my doubts. In a way I trust this person but all this going on I'm getting spooked. Several people, artists online, business majors, business owners, and an attorney alike are telling me to drop this commission and cut my losses. I have given them something of equal value to what they paid me. I know they came to me to commission and the goggles were not part of the original deal.
Either way I turn, I've got to do something. The goggles are long gone. They were MyVu goggles(dismantled by their hands in efforts to rig them to something else) so that's a loss of $150. I know I'm not going to get that back. I've put more money into this commission than I have received. They are fighting to get this but I'm getting rather worried about this. They have now taken into habit of verbally harassing me on my gallery pages and submissions. It's getting rather irritating, offensive, and uncalled for. I know I need the final $500 since I'm saving up for a wedding but there are lines being crossed that folks in general shouldn't have to deal with. I don't wish to block this fellow, but am being tempted to do so with each comment left. Their comments range from the blame game to verbal harassment to just plain attention seeking.
What do I do? Do I present the final pictures to the commissioner and see if the deal is still legit? If I go that route, how long does it take for an investigation (if one is filed) do go through or initiate? I don't want to get the money, only to ship the head and have the money removed. I know they have stated that there is a deadline to when the debt help folks can no longer help him pay me but refuses to give a time of when this deadline is. Do I cut my losses, still posting the pictures in reference of what I can do then change the head so I can sell it? I'm in need of help here please..
***Edit***
Here's some screen shots. I reuploaded the picture of the mask so it was larger. My camera butchered the colors slightly, but for those who wish to see the mask, here's the link: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6213/nachtsh.jpg
I would do a video but one, I have a cold. Yes I could clean out the mask once more, but I really try not to handle the masks when I am ill. This one was only handled by the base and two, it's rather large on me and I need a bit of padding to get it to work properly for me haha.
.
(Going to add some information as well, in relation to something I wrote in the captions above. When He had stated he wasn't going to be able to pay, he had told me that there were his credit cards still. We had started this commission in March of 2011 and I received the knowledge of him probably not going to be able to pay the full amount. By that time I was pretty close to being done with the head. That's why I kept going)
They were on a payment plan since they had no job and were on a state paid welfare of some kind. Disability I think. Anyways. They acknowledged my payment plan rules (the initial $125 is nonrefundable as it is used for the materials. Once sculpted and approved, I move onto casting and furring. Once I'm to that stage, the commissioner sends payment two and so on, reserving the final $125 for shipping, etc. They pay me in intervals while I work. All commissioners acknowledge this and have paid me without the need of reminding. I had stated verbally several times, reminding them, making sure I got a response that they understood)
Thing is, I never once received any money in the meantime. The head was close to being finished (only needed the ears attached, back of the head, and mohawk. Since I hadn't received any more payments, I stopped and waited for payments. I told them but still, none came. I worked on other commissions. They left notes asking for more pictures and I sent them one showing where it was at.
Previously that year I had sent them a pair of video goggles in agreement that they would either replace them or pay me back. that so far has not been addressed. They had been living on their credit cards and were close to filing bankruptcy. Still, I finished the head and waited. We talked through notes and they told me that they were seeing the debt help folks and that an account of their was frozen. They said the debt help people had told them that placing me on the list of debts would most likely make it so they would not get the help. he discussed it with them and they said they would turn a blind eye and put me on the list. That right there flew a red flag. They say they can pay me in full via Paypal. I also know that using a credit card with Paypal, that if something happens with either deal, the money can be removed back out of my account and have an investigation started.
They told me that they had planned on going into deeper debt to pay me but if all this is happening I have my doubts. In a way I trust this person but all this going on I'm getting spooked. Several people, artists online, business majors, business owners, and an attorney alike are telling me to drop this commission and cut my losses. I have given them something of equal value to what they paid me. I know they came to me to commission and the goggles were not part of the original deal.
Either way I turn, I've got to do something. The goggles are long gone. They were MyVu goggles(dismantled by their hands in efforts to rig them to something else) so that's a loss of $150. I know I'm not going to get that back. I've put more money into this commission than I have received. They are fighting to get this but I'm getting rather worried about this. They have now taken into habit of verbally harassing me on my gallery pages and submissions. It's getting rather irritating, offensive, and uncalled for. I know I need the final $500 since I'm saving up for a wedding but there are lines being crossed that folks in general shouldn't have to deal with. I don't wish to block this fellow, but am being tempted to do so with each comment left. Their comments range from the blame game to verbal harassment to just plain attention seeking.
What do I do? Do I present the final pictures to the commissioner and see if the deal is still legit? If I go that route, how long does it take for an investigation (if one is filed) do go through or initiate? I don't want to get the money, only to ship the head and have the money removed. I know they have stated that there is a deadline to when the debt help folks can no longer help him pay me but refuses to give a time of when this deadline is. Do I cut my losses, still posting the pictures in reference of what I can do then change the head so I can sell it? I'm in need of help here please..
***Edit***
Here's some screen shots. I reuploaded the picture of the mask so it was larger. My camera butchered the colors slightly, but for those who wish to see the mask, here's the link: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6213/nachtsh.jpg
I would do a video but one, I have a cold. Yes I could clean out the mask once more, but I really try not to handle the masks when I am ill. This one was only handled by the base and two, it's rather large on me and I need a bit of padding to get it to work properly for me haha.
.(Going to add some information as well, in relation to something I wrote in the captions above. When He had stated he wasn't going to be able to pay, he had told me that there were his credit cards still. We had started this commission in March of 2011 and I received the knowledge of him probably not going to be able to pay the full amount. By that time I was pretty close to being done with the head. That's why I kept going)
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no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:06 pm (UTC)Alternately, give them a three month window to pay the final 500.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:07 pm (UTC)I just had to do this with a friend-of-a-friend. I held onto a fursuit she wanted to buy for 10 months, even though she said she'd pay by X date, and was 10 months overdue. I said "Pay me by january 1st or its getting furbid'd". She paid me half and said she'd pay the other half 2 weeks afterwards, and once again I'm sending her a text message saying she's got 2 weeks to pay me the other 400 or else I'm furbiding it and keeping the 400 as a holding fee for that(now) 12 month period.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 07:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:18 pm (UTC)Supposing this is true, cut your losses and drop all contact. Sell the head and the mask. You've given this person more than enough time to pay you back for the work done and in that time period they've harassed you, strung you along, guilt tripped you and broken an item that you sent them for who knows what reason.
And for the sake of other people, please post this person here. I don't know why you feel obligated to keep their identity a secret.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:23 am (UTC)But I would like to see these "harassing comments" because that can change the tone of things a lot.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 07:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-08 02:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-03-08 03:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:22 pm (UTC)or what artslave said, give them a couple months to pay you.. i know youre concerned about them going into debt, but thats really their concern :-/ if hed rather have a mask than food thats his choice.. although i know its s tough thing for you as the maker to think about and decide upon.
i really hope this ends alright!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 05:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 07:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-04 11:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:02 am (UTC)He's had plenty of time to pay you. Plenty. It's nice to work with commissioners and cut deals, but this is sounding a little strange.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:21 am (UTC)The fact that he says there's a deadline on the debt help but won't give it to you is indeed fishy. I am also confused on this debt help business - if this is a third party paying you, have you been in contact with them and why do you have to do anything else except wait for the funds to go to you? Honestly I have no idea how that works :P
Also, I'd like to see examples of these "harassing comments" - depending on how bad they are, yes you maybe should be very clear and firm that the behavior is unacceptable and block them if they continue to bug you about it.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 01:32 am (UTC)*sorry if this is offensive to anyone, just stating personal experience*
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 01:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 02:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 12:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 02:12 am (UTC)Remind the customer they've had __ amount of time to pay and that they still owe __ amount. You're giving them __ months to pay the remainder (I would say two) and if they are unable to pay at that time, it's going up for auction and as per your terms of service, their downpayment is not refundable.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 03:37 am (UTC)I don't like the idea of taking commissions from people using welfare money in the first place, not just for moral reasons, but the fact that they can't guarantee they'll get all the money to you in the end. Put that head up on furbid for whatever else he owes you on it and block him for harassment (but probably tell him the reason WHY you're doing it so he doesn't try to make puppet accounts or send his friends after you or something...)
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 03:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 04:57 am (UTC)Make sure auctions states that if payment is not received in full by X date, the second highest bidder will be offered it at this last bid.
It gives them one last chance to cough up the money PRONTO (plus some extra, assuming you get additional bids), and if not, it goes to someone.
ands its out of your hair, you can stop worrying about it, and have the money and time to spend on the wedding.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-05 08:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 04:21 pm (UTC)Heck I would say block him /now/ to boot, but I can tell you aren't the kind to do that :/ So tell him you need to move on from this and since he can't pay within a month you will be selling the head and that's that. If he gives you grief about it you will block him. And then do so because he will.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 07:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 07:56 pm (UTC)If it turns out he can't pay in full by october then make it clear you are putting it up for bid and he's not allowed to bid on it. Halloween could be a good time to try to resell that!!
no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 07:59 pm (UTC)I highly doubt my goggles will ever be replaced or refunded, pretty much given up on those.
no subject
Date: 2011-02-06 11:59 pm (UTC)Make sure the order gets tracking AND that he scans them, if possible.
It really sucks about the goggles, but IDK what can be done for that if it's not something you've been factoring into the payment for the head. It probably won't go over well to tack that on at this point :(
But do let him know that you don't consider things "Square" on that front (if he pays you for the head)
please put another post to fix the possible damage to my name :/
Date: 2011-03-08 03:08 am (UTC)sorry if any of that didnt come out right/sounded rude
i'm glad everything (seems) to be sorted now well minus u outing my name and makeing me look bad but you can fix that your self if you do as i asked :)
i also look forward to getting my stuff from you in the mail :)
oh and i only put this reply here cos i wanted people to see me say something not to course any issues.
i do however admit i could have handled it better on my side too.
but i do have stress and other issues so things get to me a lot more then they should sometimes :/ - not trying to make excuses tho or i would'nt have admitted it.
i hope if we have any contact in the future it can be on more friendly terms on both sides as i hate to have people dis liking me over miss-understandings.
Oh one last thing sorry this is so long x.x