Beware: Adiago

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

Update: In lieu of many conversations, I am in the process of updating my ToS to be more clear and a bit more lenient. Definitely thanks to those who have voice their opinions on this matter.

A couple days ago while I was livestreaming, I put up a few journals advertising that I would do cheap $5 sketches on stream for people that showed up and asked for them. A friend brought Adiago to the stream and she commissioned me for a piece, said she was happy with it when I finished, then left for bed.

Last night I was aimlessly browsing through Tumblr and found the sketch that I had done for her, edited and colored. I asked to take it down, because I don't really like to see my art other then places I post it for personal reasons, and it was quickly taken down. I thanked the person and went on my way. A quick and simple thing.

I then went to the submission that Adiago had posted up on her Furaffinity account and left a comment.






In the end, all I honestly cared about was if she would take it down from her gallery. It would have been nice if I was asked about it being edited or whatever, but I don't mind enough to make a super big deal about it. I would have rather gotten a message from her saying something like "Hey I edited and colored this, can I post it?" rather then finding the image on Tumblr.






My reason for this article is just to warn people of her, and I honestly would not like anyone else to have to run into something unfortunate like this.



This is her edit


and this is my original image

Comments

[heysawbones.livejournal.com]

She... did pay you for it. And credited you. And you didn't make your ToS readily available, or confirm that she understood it before doing the commission. Is she overreacting and being a sassy jerk? Yes, possibly, but what are you going to do?

People who are more experienced in this may disagree with me, but from over here, it looks like you should probably just let it go, and make sure that people understand your ToS before completing work from now on.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I am going to do just that. I'm going to just be all "yeah w/e" and make a ToS that people have to read through before even asking to commission me to avoid unfortunate situations such as all of this drama.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

So she not only recolored it without your permission, she modified it? And is now going 'nyah nyah you dummy now you done it and i'mma post it everywhere BECAUSE I CAN nyah nyah btw ur blocked'? Tactless. I'd never want to do art for them.

I'd approach an FA mod and ask if at all possible it could be removed because unless she paid for the rights to the image as well, she hasn't a foot to stand on. Because you know, there are laws about that too.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I'm going to talk to a mod for sure. The only thing she bought was the sketch.

[hellebore.livejournal.com]

Can I see your ToS?

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

It's not a super fo srs legal ToS but its essentially what I'll do an not do and such like that http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1663312/

[grimmhooke.livejournal.com]

I agree with the above to a degree, and while she's not technically in the wrong, what she did is in pretty bad taste. The way she snapped on you is even more telling of her maturity.

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

>Last night I was aimlessly browsing through Tumblr and found the sketch that I had done for her, edited and colored.

When people commission you, are you the owner of the work or are they?

I'm most likely not the only one developing kinks in their stomach from reading your post, not in regards to the Adiago but yourself.

Adiago appears to be a fine commissioner, I believe this post should take this comm-mystiqe

[uberangus.livejournal.com]

If I am remembering correctly, under law Adiago does not own rights to the image unless she bought them as well as the services. As she did not obtain any such rights or permission, Adiago is wrong.

Fine commissioner? With the attitude she's taken?

[blackberrypie.livejournal.com]

Talk about attitude. I don't get why they feel they need to be so self righteous. While I do think the edit looks nice, the art is of their character but it is not their art. I'd try making a more clear TOS vs a do or don't list for next time and make sure they read it first.

But with all that said, I'm sorry they acted how they did. Simply asking someone to pull an image down should not warrant that kind of attitude.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I do have a ToS ( http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1663312/ ) she just wasn't shown it, my fault, I should have made sure. I think this situation coulda... definitely gone a little bit smoother.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

To be honest? I think you may be making a huge deal over something very small. Why didn't you just note her privately and explain that you felt uncomfortable with her editing and coloring the image? I would think as long as she credited you, and respected the fact YOU drew it should have been enough. Why can't she repost it anywhere? I think since she purchased it, she should certainly be able to show it off, so long as credit is given.

So where does ownership lie? It is her character, it was a bought image. You did draw it, and you still retain the rights...but she's not making monetary gain from this, nor is she claiming to have drawn it. Reposting commissions is incredibly common on FA.

Frankly, it was of her character correct? What if she wanted it colored and posted as a reference for other commissions? I realize it's irritating not to be told but I don't think you -have- to be. It would have been nice of her, but not necessary. I'm not sure I see what the problem is, and feel that you're stirring up the pot, when you should just let it go.

Her response was no less then immature, of course, but you did go after her publicly, which may have gotten her on the defensive. Tos or not, I don't see the issue. If anything she was proud of what she'd purchased, and possibly wanted to show off and get your name out there - this is how you get more commissions some times!

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I will definitely look to the posting into galleries issue, maybe ill just drop it, because you're very very right. I should have noted to her, but it didn't start off as me trying to stir up anything, so i suppose i didn't find it necessary until it started getting worse. I should have switched to a note.

[hikitsune.livejournal.com]

thanks for the heads up. what a nasty person that commissioner is.

[digivolution.livejournal.com]

Everything aside, I agree with the comment above, what a terrible freaking attitude that commissioner has. Her comment pretty much translates to me as "OH NOW I'M GONNA POST IT EVERYWHERE AND YOU CAN'T STOP ME NEENER NEENER" 8/

So let me get this straight, was the person on Tumblr Adiago? When did she put the sketch up on her FA? I guess I'm just confused mostly at her reaction to all of this. Is Minxy a friend or something? Did you give the art to the commissioner or someone else? I guess I'm just confused lol

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

The tumblr was of someone completely different that puts up random furry themed artwork and photos and such. She put the sketch up, two days ago or something? I'm not sure. Minxy is a mutual friend. I asked her to pass the drawing on since she wasn't online, I figured it would get to her faster. Probably bad judgement on my part, or I was feeling lazy to note XD; my bad on that issue. That I fully understand.

[maryseif.livejournal.com]

Wow what a horrible attitude she has!

Just because you buy art does NOTnotnontonotnotttt mean you have the right to recolor/modify/post without permission.

It's not hard to ask first!

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

And that's all I really ask.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

Accused publicly or not, her response was both immature and just plain nasty.

I trust you have figured out how to avoid this in the future, having read the conversations between you and the prior responders. Good luck!

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I've definitely learned from all of this! I will be changing a bunch of things, and with how I do business. Thank you!

[dazen-cobalt.livejournal.com]

Now me personally I love it when my art gets posted other places, I mean that helps get your name out and increases the changes of getting more watchers/commissioners. However not everyone is going to like that. so that's more than acceptable.

I think you might of went a little overboard. The only thing she did was horizontally flip the image and splash some colors over it from what I see. Nothing flat out "modifying"

I hope you don't take this as me downplaying things nor am I trying to be disrespectful, but I really just don't see the big deal about it.

still tho her reply was less that stellar

[uberangus.livejournal.com]

She didn't flip the whole image, just the head.
That doesn't have much to do with anything, just figured I'd clarify some

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

Overall, as a commissioner, I can honestly say that I've never had an artist tell me that they don't want me reposting their art in my personal gallery. However, I've seen artists who operate in that way, and it's not a big deal to me, really.

All-in-all, I think your commissioner has one of the worst, most childish attitudes I've ever seen, regardless of whether or not she's in the right in the matter. If someone asks nicely, there's no reason to fly off the handle like that. >.>

I'm glad you were able to find some areas in your ToS to improve, but I'm very sorry you had to encounter such a nasty person.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

Everyone has different opinions, and its what makes each other who they are, so I value opinions of different people quite definitely, and especially from this article. I've learned a lot to take with me from this whole thing, and on one hand, I'm glad it happened. But I dislike the situation and how it happened.

[sovy.livejournal.com]

She doesn't own the image. Unless it is a work-for-hire job or you explicitly give the person reproduction rights then the copyright stays with the artist. In this case it is illegal for the commissioner to even repost the image, unaltered, in their gallery on FA.

Saying that I would totally commission Adiago over Mystiqe. I know there is drama surrounding her but I never had a problem talking with her and commissioning art from her. I am not as concerned about getting the "Take my artwork off your gallery or else..." treatment from her as I would from Mystiqe. This entry is more of an Beware: Mystiqe than Beware: Adiago. =\

[uberangus.livejournal.com]

Mystiqe is, if you missed the above comments, in the process of reworking her TOS to remove the 'don't repost' clause.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. Her. She's kind of known as a drama llama, though she has been quiet for a while. Adiago is also Sevva-Phoenix.

Honestly, I'd just drop it with her. She holds grudges that last YEARS.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I'll be doing just that. Aside from this article and putting up a better ToS I will do no more with this issue. What's done is done, amirite?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

It's not work for hire, she does not own the rights to the image, nor is she allowed to modify it. A contract has to be produced in order for her to be the owner.

With that said, perhaps calling her out publicly was not the best idea. However, her complete tantrum makes me want to avoid doing work with her.

If you -really- want it down, you can contact FA mods. The by you for you rule only counts if the artist has given the person permission to upload the work. =\

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't care if she hadn't been so.. very dramatic about all of this. But honestly, I just don't care anymore. Whats done is done, I've learned my lesson. I'll be making a clear and more defined ToS for further use. Although this was unfortunate, some good came out of it, and that is all that matters in my mind :)

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

Beware is very warrented. That's not OK for a commissioner to do. For one, she's in the wrong about it not being illegal--the artist retains reproduction rights but it's the attitude that REALLY rubs me the wrong way. Definitely trouble ticket it, as she needs the rights to repost it it's also abusing the block feature to continue arguing with the artist after blocking too I think.

She should never assume she can edit and repost (especially as an artist herself!) without reading your TOS so claims of ignorance are moot. As though reposting weren't enough, the editing without permission is illegal. Artists retain what is called "moral rights" to a piece, which means that it can't be altered, defaced or changed in any way without their permission. She also cannot assume that for five dollars she's bought the right to the piece. It's unfortunate that as an artist she is not more familiar with copyright law--art is not the same as goods.

I have no idea why people here are giving you flak, you are within your rights. It sounds like you should have PMed her (was she the one that commissioned it?) but at the same time two wrongs don't make a right. My one critique is thus: In the future, you might have better luck approaching errant commissioners in a more straightforward business-like manner. Point to your TOS, and also say politely "excuse me but posting this violates my TOS *link to TOS* could you please remove it" which invites less commentary. Don't beat around the bush.

[mysticglowstik.livejournal.com]

She was the one that commissioned the piece, and I have long realized how at fault I am for not sending her a note, rather then commenting. But I will work on doing just as you say, bring more straightforward with issues. Thank you :)

[tornaderman.livejournal.com]

thats one of the nastiest attitudes! Wow. Not much else to say that hasnt already been said

[solalia.livejournal.com]

Uhm, yeah, it's already been said, but what she did is totally illegal. I don't see anything wrong with having your TOS tell the commissioner to ask permission before reposting the art, but a lot of people are honestly too lazy to do it and act like you're a big meanie for making them ask. There are a number of reasons you might want to know where the art is reposted and I usually just explain it to the commissioner if they have an issue with it. It's not just so I can be a big turd to them, it's so that I can keep track of where it's legitimately posted, that way if anyone is using it without permission, my art isn't being abused and their characters aren't being abused. Big whoop.

But yeah, she was really in the wrong and her attitude is, uh, most impressive. Not in a good way. She doesn't even have any right to be reposting it in the first place, let alone modifying the work.

[raai.livejournal.com]

Her attitude seriously needs to be corrected.

[raai.livejournal.com]

Also that journal she posted was actually so immature, man. Beware indeed.

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

Okay, way too many people commenting on this case without actually looking up the legalities at play.

I live with a professional graphic artist who does full-time contract work for companies. And as pointed by several informed posters here already, commissioners do NOT own the copyright to artworks they commission. The copyright remain with the artists - artists are allowed to use the artworks they created in any manner they like, including selling prints and such, even if the "characters" were not created by them (this is something a lot of commissioners do not realize, and make a big deal out of it when an artist they commissioned started selling prints of their commissioned artworks). If a commissioner wants to own the copyright to an image, they have to pay the artist for it (at a rate specified by their contract), and there is usually a timeframe for such copyright purchase as well - after it expires, the copyright goes back to the artist.

This is not an issue of common courtesy. It's the law.

In the fandom, most commercial activities that goes about aren't of huge financial value and most artists are fairly lenient about having their works reposted. Personally? I am pretty lenient about it myself. I never cared when commissioners repost pictures I did for them in their gallery. It puts a smile on my face when they ask me if they could, and my answer is always yes. But even if they don't ask, I don't make an issue out of it, since I don't see a point to that.

As for coloring/modifying without permission, that is a big no-no. There are several reasons to this - for example, I offer collab commissions with another artist, who colors my line art. Every once in a while I get a request from a commissioner who wants to commission a line art only, and have it colored by a different artist (so it would be cheaper than what my partner is offering). I feel disrespectful to my partner if I let my commissioners do that, so I usually turn such requests down - and in this case, I have the legal rights to turn such things down, you see. :) This is only one of the few examples as to why artists' copyright to their artworks should be upheld - at least when it is relevant to do so. Except in very rare instances, I do require people to notify me if they wish to color/alter an artwork I did (even if it's a work they commissioned), and post it publicly. If they want to color/alter it in private and never post it, there's no reason for me to know (or care, for that matter). ~_^

Regarding the case described in this entry, the commissioner is technically at fault (I don't think she did what she did maliciously, she just misunderstood the copyright law), but I do think the artist was being a bit aggressive as well. There are easier ways to make people understand and cooperate. :) But, since it's come this far, I think the commissioner needs to be informed of how the copyright laws actually work - perhaps send her a PM about it? If she still refuses to take down the image, then get the FA mods involved to take it down.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I tried to inform her about her misconceptions about copyright. I even quoted the illustration handbook, and actual US Copyright law. She was adamant that I was wrong and the clause that copyright exists at creation is wrong, and we're all wrong. I was in the middle of trying to grab a good source for Moral Law (as this is what this covers, irrc), but she deleted the image in the meantime.

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

Hoooly shit her attitude is just plain childish. There is zero excuse for the lip she gave you.

I don't get why people are giving you flack for not wanting your stuff reposted without permission, I don't like it when people repost my work either. I know it's commonplace on FA but that really doesn't mean every artist should be expected to be okay with it.

[bagheera.livejournal.com]

I think people are just used to sharing whatever they want on the internet. :) Copyrighted materials are being redistributed illegally all the time, the only difference is... if you are caught downloading illegal MP3s or movies, you don't ARGUE with the record companies/moviestudios. You swallow your pride and admit you did something wrong, and possibly pay your fine.

I don't think most people realize the same copyright that protect music and movies also apply to artworks. The case surrounding graphic art is especially blurry to most people because a lot of artworks that are shared/reposted aren't of commercial nature. The most common argument I see from people on imageboards and whatnot is "The artist isn't making money from these artworks so we aren't causing them financial loss; besides, they get free exposure".

There are plenty of reasons other than financial loss for an artist to not want his work reposted without permission. :)

[hamburger.livejournal.com]

Okay, this is tap dancing into personal attack territory here. No name-calling, folks.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I think this is a beware for both of you, neither party handled it well.

You mishandled this by not handling it in private, people are more likely to explode if you accuse them in public, expecting everyone to know your ToS when common practise is to allow reposting, and being surprisingly aggressive about it what with the swearing and everything. Don't swear at your clients, even "dammit" is kind of unprofessional and looks aggressive.

She mishandled it by being grossly misinformed of her rights, misquoting law and misunderstanding it, assuming things and acting poorly as well as insulting you.

In general most artists allow reposting, admittedly she went a bit further than most by altering and colouring the sketch (though personally I think the position of the head does look better in the edit) but most people would have assumed they were okay to repost since it's a commonly allowed ability.

While artists do enjoy a lot of rights when it comes to art, and I personally do advocate artists protecting those rights, at the same time we also need to consider our clients. People don't buy art just so they can enjoy it privately, they buy it to show case their ideas a lot of the time. You may need to relax a little bit on this point if only because having rights doesn't always mean it's advantageous to use them all the time. Sometimes being nice to the clients can bring in more work.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

The OP has already decided to update her TOS to allow for reposting, or for something more lenient than she currently has. Maybe she should edit the entry so that people can see it 'cause a lot of the discussion is about how "I wouldn't commission you because of this" even though she has mentioned she's changing it in a couple threads.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

now that i know who adiago really is, her attitude makes sense to me. she has quite a history, that one.

i'm surprised that so many people are chiding you for this. not Noting her aside, this is entirely her doing. and i'm not so sure a Note would have changed the outcome of this anyway.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I suspect it's because there are also some issues with how Mystiqe handled it, as bad as the client behaved it was in reaction to some not quite acceptable messages from the artist.

If I'd reposted a commission not knowing the artist's ToS didn't allow it and gotten Mystiqe's first comment here posted as a comment on the submission? I'd be a rather unhappy client myself; I wouldn't act like the client did of course but I'd screenshot the comment, pull the picture and certain at least consider posting it here since I wouldn't appreciate being talked to in that manner