&quot;Artists Beware&quot;

I'd rather not risk it, FA admins are odd. Also, I didn't message an admin directly, I just opened a Trouble Ticket that hasn't been replied to. Don't really know where to go from here.

From:

shukivengeance.livejournal.com

Dragoneer has been willing to get involved and take care of scammers in the past, as has Arshes Nei. You could try either of those imo. It wouldn't hurt.

From:

I've PM'd Dragoneer, see the latest update up above. ^^

From:

teahound.livejournal.com

Don't do a TT; they pile up a LOT and likely won't be dealt with. PM a mod directly, preferably Dragoneer.

From:

I've PM'd Dragoneer, see the latest update up above. ^^

From:

"We're gonna have a problem"? What kind of a threat is that? Does she think she's a mob boss or something? Is she gonna come break your kneecaps?

From:

I don't really know, but that really pissed me off. Though FA's complete lack of action has also pissed me off. She's just spamming journals right now, and I just don't know what to do. :C

From:

They can be a bit.. slow about responding to this kind of thing, to say the least. Maybe try PMing Dragoneer?

From:

Think I should? I don't really like going to the "higher ups" on stuff like this, it feels like I'm adding to the piles already on their plates. But if you think that's best...

From:

He's been saying he wants to be tougher on scammers, and she is, for all intents and purposes, scamming you. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt. Just make sure you provide him with all the info you have.

From:

I've PM'd Dragoneer, see the latest update up above. ^^

From:

mezzaneen.livejournal.com

Sounds less like a threat and more like a warning, but either way it doesn't sit well with me. That's downright rude of her, and very poor customer service.

From:

And it hardly matters either way. You warn or threaten your commissioners who've been waiting for 9 months? Cool cool. v.v

From:

mezzaneen.livejournal.com

Horrendously bad business all around.

From:

ocelotish

I've checked it out, and while it sounds like her condition sucks atm, that doesn't make what she's done to you right. An artist shouldn't spend money until the commission is complete.

First things first - have you linked her to your entries? If not, do so. Second thing: ask her to set a deadline for the refund or the commission if she hasn't done so. If not there will be consequences. On that same note, figure out what you can and are willing to do. Are you willing to take her to small claims? If yes, tell her that.

On your end, it legitimately sounds like she has no money and you can't get blood from a stone. Set up with her when she can deliver something to you.

Personally, I'm pretty put off by you. You're still bringing up how you're at the bottom of the list. This isn't editing a old entry, this a new one. You're still bringing it up as injury when we both know it's not. You've add the stuff she's done wrong, what about your mistakes?

From:

Fine, even though it was a copy and paste, pick at me for it. I'll edit it, no need to get like that. geez. Also, I'm not willing to go to small claims court over $15, that's ridiculous. As you might have guessed, getting in contact with this artist is nigh on impossible, so any type of "arrangement" will not be read unless I somehow grab her attention with something.

From:

ocelotish

Well, this the third time you've brought it up as an issue. Why should I be nice when you keep repeating something you know isn't true, even if it's in c/p?

If you're not willing to go to small claims court I'm not sure there's much you can do besides wait it out, report her to the mods, or maybe contact other people to see if they're just as fed up as you are.

The best solution may just be to wait until things seem to start picking up a little bit (as I said, blood from a stone), then contact her again. Her journals make it seem like she's in a really bad situation right now, so she's more likely to snap at you. It doesn't mean she should, but unless you get someone from outside to do something about it, she has to be the one to return the money/deliver the art.

From:

I suppose another option for consequences is to leave weekly shouts or something.

From:

But then they're gonna have problems!

(http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y131/Danillama/?action=view&current=mobster-mafia-13.gif)

(Sorry, I can't get over how silly her threat sounded)

From:

I lol'd at that. You have made my day.

From:

I know XD
But then OP just has to set a trap hold their henchmen for ransom ;)

From:

foxhack.livejournal.com

Shouts can be deleted and ignored. :(

From:

Of course but that still requires more attention than the seller may want to give, and may warn off others who do manage to see them.

From:

neolucky.livejournal.com

I hate to say it: But if you're not willing to take this any further, don't like bothering "higher ups" over this sort of thing, and can't find any way to get in contact... then perhaps it's time to drop it and chalk it up as a $15 lesson learned. Also, I agree, you've mentioned the whole "bottom of the list" thing more then once, and thats not really relevant to the issue anymore. Next time you update it'd be better to update this entry instead of making new ones.

I just can't see you getting anything out of her at this point. So just wait and see if Dragoneer does anything about it when he's back from the convention.

From:

I edited it over 5 hours ago. Leave it out. >.<"

I have contacted 'Neer. If he won't do anything, then I can't do anything anyway.

From:

foxhack.livejournal.com

I've read enough of this artist's shenanigans here to finally unwatch her.

This is friggin' ridiculous. Sorry, I can't stand people who pull stuff like that off...

From:

Yeah, I was going to get my refund/art and un-watch her. It's ridiculous.

From:

holydust.livejournal.com

Meh. I was going to play Devil's Advocate a little, because I still hear October 2010 or November 2010 and my brain doesn't process time well, so I think "Gosh, that's just barely the end of last year", but then I realize it IS halfway through 2011 already.

I see this on A_B a lot. Burnout leads to stress and anxiety, leads to ignoring shouts and notes, leads to avoiding FA and letting the sh*tstorm swirl instead of taking care of it before it turns into a Big Damn Thing.

I wish I could say I automatically go "ugh! Scammer!" when I see these situations, but I don't. All I think is, "She is making this so much worse than it needs to be." Yet another artist ruining their reputation when all it would take is a personal reach-out to every client who is currently waiting. It's honestly all it takes, and it's so much easier than being committed to radio silence and the inevitable addition of MORE angry shouts, more angry notes, and A_B posts.

I wish artists would understand that it's better to take one day to try to get your sh*t in order and reach out to whoever is waiting than it is to keep running. It just gets worse if you run. It always gets worse.

From:

Yeah, I mean...I didn't want to have to do this, EC made me the first piece of art I ever got, and that was free. But since October 2010? and not a word? I can't just stand around with my thumbs up my ass. I hope she gets more on the ball, because she is a good artist. All she needs to do, as you said, is just let everyone who has been waiting a long time that's she's sorry and will be working on them soon.

From:

starcharmer.livejournal.com

I gotta agree with you. I've had problems with real life messing me up commissionwise for YEARS, though I always tried my best to at least keep in contact with people and I was never rude. I've only ever had a few people get upset with me about the wait [to my 'face'] and most people seem really understanding when you're honest with them and keep in touch.

From:

That's correct. The main reason I'm so annoyed is that I literally haven't heard anything about the commission from HER (A friend of hers sent around asking for commission details again) since I ordered the damn thing. It's just been delay after delay and no contact = Customer not happy.

From:

snippetchick.livejournal.com

Oh boo hoo. Poor diddums has taken on too much work and now feels stressed. Cry me a river. I've experienced burnout, severe enough that I received paid compensation for it in fact (work related, pressures put on me, not due to work that I solicited beyond what I could manage). I know what it feels like, and I know what causes it and also how to move past it.

I do think that stress/burnout is an excuse in the short term. I think it can be used as an excuse for a few weeks, but not several months of nothing. If it's that long, there are deeper issues at play. If you can't deal with managing your workload or communicating with commissioners, then working as an artist is not the right career choice.

I've noticed quite a few people who might be good at art, but are hopeless at customer service, negotiation and communication. These people should not take on commissioners as taking money for art is all about communication, negotiation and provision of good customer service.

I don't always think 'scammer' in these situations, but I do think, 'artist needs to learn that actions (or inactions) have consequences.'

From:

I agree. Not much else to be said. Lol. :D

From:

trimblecat.livejournal.com

You know, with all the commision issues that pop up on FA, (And other places) I'm suprised nobody has tried to creat a commision system. You know: User A and User B log as both a comissionee and a comissioner. User A logs when they Pay, User B logs when they finish the commission. They both check a "Commision successful" box. If one of them refuses or has a problem, they try and work it out, and if that fails, contact a mod.

It just seems more organized than this whole running around with heads cut off situation that goes on here. Disputes exactly like this one could get solved so much faster, and hell, even artists would benefit from an organized list.

Apart from that little tangent-I know how it feels to be burnt out. I think anyone who does art knows what it's like. But if you owe someone you HAVE to get off your ass and finish it. You're not obligated to take them for a 9 month ride. You're no exception. You get payed, you HAVE to get it done. Burn out? Sure, take a week off, clear your head, but don't mope around whining about how commisioners are nasty when you're not doing your JOB. Also if she's so stressed why is she closed to comissions, yet open for REQUESTS and COLLABS from watchers and other people?

Something stinks...

TL;DR? Short version: FA needs some sort of system with all the buisness managed through it, and this Electrocat person is taking on free art things despite being burned out/not taking care of things she has been payed to do first.

From:

I'd like a system like that too, unfortunately, FA is a lazy site, and so hasn't changed anything in many years. Her being open for requests and stuff is also retarded, as she seems to do them more than her actual commissions. I've contacted 'Neer, but apparently he's at a convention. Also, check my latest update, she's taking a "Few extra days off" because now she has Insomnia...suuuuuuuuuuure.

From:

keaalu.livejournal.com

Just to play Devil's Advocate, antidepressants (especially the newer ones) do quite commonly cause insomnia, and if she's only just started them it could be vaguely believable that she's having sleeping problems.

(Added up with the rest of the problems you've been having, though, I agree it's suspicious. She could equally have read the patient leaflet and gone "aha...")

From:

Hardly makes up for the other problems that she's been causing. But yeah, I guess it could be true.

From:

lilenth.livejournal.com

Actually a lot of the newer ones are more likely to cause Hypersomnia not insomnia, they even prescribe certain ones for insomnia because of that fact.

From:

keaalu.livejournal.com

I know. I was just going from what I see in my daily practice (*is a hospital pharmacist*); I was just making the point that if she's claiming insomnia, it's not TOO out of the realms of possibility, especially if she's on an SSRI.

From:

ocelotish

I think they wouldn't have that as then they are somewhat responsible for transactions and you'd have a reason to get money from them.

From:

foxhack.livejournal.com

That would involve getting FA in the transactions.

Something tells me the site is simply not ready to deal with such a responsibility.

From:

trimblecat.livejournal.com

Unfortunately they're probably not. But in the end they do end up getting involved anyway. Starfinder, Electrocat, killmytv, I mean, all these people result in admins getting contacted anyway.

They either need to cut buisness transactions from their site completely or go whole hog on it. Eventually FA may end up getting in legal trouble BECAUSE of all the scams that are run through the site.

I know 'neer doesn't like to play the bad guy, but someone has too. There is no benefit from not putting your foot down when things like this happen. He either has to take care of it then, or make a system to take care of it later. One that's perferably public.

From:

I'm not sure this really makes sense... people would hate it if they banned anyone from advertising anything on FA, and I think it's reasonable to allow people to use the site to advertise.
Making a site /in the business of commissions/ is a WHOLE nother can of worms though! Think ebay, etsy, etc - except it'd probably have to be a shop, an auction site, and an escrow service all in one to really cover everything well XD
No, I don't think the site is "lazy" for not taking on that particular function (other features and security holes, argue as you will, that's a different topic). As it is, the admins really don't HAVE to kick blatant scammers off the site, but it's reasonable that they do so in extreme cases, at least.

From:

sazume-neox.livejournal.com

I know how you feel.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/hmWmd.jpg[/IMG]

She owes me since then. I've gotten the screencaps, but when I later checked on them, I received an error message saying that they do not exist. I have sent her several notes asking about the progress on them. I have yet to this day here something back from her. I have commissioned other artists prior to that. She is the LAST artist that owes me art. I noted the other artists who have started working on them, and gave me a set date when they will get them done. She's constantly opening up for commissions and it really fucking aggravating. I even sat up in her stream and watched her draw some commissions they people have paid right then. I wanted to call her on this, but I did not feel like being attacked by her audience.

I know that if I don't get my commission done, or hear a word from her before this week is up, I'm gonna directly post to her what she owes. If that doesn't get results, this thread should.

From:

You should note 'Neer too then, methinks. You can try going down the route I went down, but all I got was a threatening note. :c -- Definitely sucks what she's doing, and I know too well that she's picking up things in stream and doing them instead of working through her huge backlog. If you want to shout on her page and link to this, you're more than welcome. I'm not having any more contact with that woman unless 'Neer doesn't note back.

From:

sazume-neox.livejournal.com

So, I posted a shout on her with the link to A_B. Of course it got deleted, but she also wrote a journal about what she's been going through.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2376571/

Of course, her pity party of fans/friends are coming up into her defense.
Hilariously, she clearly states, to those "people" that there won't be getting a refund. How fucked up is that? I say, completely. It's unfair to treat your costumers like that, but to spend the money firsthand and not have enough to pay a refund, that isn't right. It's stealing if you ask me.

My other favorite part is where she is mocking people into getting her banned. It's more saying "Go ahead and get me banned. You'll never see your money or your art." 8 months ago she wasn't feeling this way, but here it is now and she's still going.

From: