Licensing art

[kiriska.livejournal.com]

Okay. Looking for advice about licensing commissioned art to the commissioner commercial use.

So I am potentially going to be doing a lot of art for a guy making a tabletop RPG -- he'll be using all of the art in a guidebook that will eventually be for sale. Since this is something a lot of people want to do and since I don't know enough about the project to really form an opinion about how likely it is to be commercially successful, I would rather not deal with royalty payments that may or may not ever happen and would prefer a lump sum one-time licensing fee per image.

The guy pointed out that a flat-rate fee per image (in addition to the cost of the commission itself) would add up quickly for him, since he would need dozens and dozens of images. I understand this, and I understand that this is a very indie project and that he isn't a big business with lots of funds. I do want to be as reasonable and fair to him as possible, but I want to be fair to myself as well, and in the event that this guidebook is wildly successful, I don't want to have given away usage of the art for little more than what the art itself cost.

So I'm not really sure what would be a good compromise. I was thinking about percentages, like maybe a 5% licensing fee on top of the cost of each image, though some of the smaller images would be something like $20, so 5% is only a dollar, which seems.. silly? I don't know.

Advice?

Comments

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

If this book is self-published (sounds like it is based on "very indie") it's not likely that he'll sell more then a handful; self-published RPG books are a dime a dozen and the vast majority don't go anywhere except the author's mom's attic. So I wouldn't accept anything like royalties or prints-exclusivity in lieu of cash.

At the same time though, you probably don't want to charge the same rates you'd charge for pro work to a dude doing what's basically a vanity project, because the level of distribution isn't really comparable and he probably can't afford it anyway.

I think the idea of a flat rate for the entire book sounds most fair for both of you.

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I agree with this! It's not a great idea to charge the same as would if say...White Wolf or WotC were asking for the same thing. For one guy, if he's spending a few hundred dollars, he probably won't be making it back, and it's all out of pocket from his main job.

If he wants a lot of super complex art and you quote him a high price, after that try quoting him something more attainable but simpler (like just characters instead of full backgrounds or black and white instead of color)

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

Yeah - there are a ton of tabletop RPG systems out there all competing for the same very small market of tabletop RPG players. 99.9% of indies never go anywhere and in all likelihood, this indie won't go anywhere, either. It's nothing against the guy creating it. It's just the reality, and it does mean that accepting royalties will probably get you shafted and charging a pro rate for distribution is probably unfair.

I agree - if he's asking for so much art that the price tag is in the stratosphere and he's balking at it, offer him simpler pictures that still get the job done. Don't lower your prices past the point you're comfortable with expecting money down the road, 'cause you won't get any. Agree on some kind of flat rate that has a small amount for distribution rolled in, and you should both wind up happy.

[kawaiipiepie.livejournal.com]

This frame of mind confuses me, because shouldn't you be charging the same for the work, regardless? Does it take less work/effort/materials/skill to draw/paint commissions for A rather than B depending on how much money they have?

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

No, but I would consider the resume bump and supporting someone trying to make an indie game part of a discount. Some people are okay with lowering their prices on a bulk deal too. It's just all stuff to take into consideration.

For example, I wouldn't charge family quite as much as I would strangers for the same work because I don't mind working for less for people that have supported me.

It still takes me the same amount of time, but it's a different circumstance. There are people who don't take those things into consideration though, which is 100% okay!

[houndofloki.livejournal.com]

I was thinking distribution prices. A distribution fee for a major company with an audience of thousands shouldn't be the same as a distribution fee for an indie book with an audience of like, 10.

[gymnopedie.livejournal.com]

because shouldn't you be charging the same for the work, regardless?

No. It's why you pick and choose who you wind up working for. Paizo, WotC and WhiteWolf pay more, yes, but you also need the chops to be able to get into them. They also require crazy detail, large sweeping scenes, and lots of colors. The smaller guys - the good ones at least that pay not even 1/2 of what the others can - tend to only really require simple, black and white, art because they understand time = money spent. So the easier the art, the less they feel they need to pay someone.

[gymnopedie.livejournal.com]

Unless if you're Elmore, Donato, April Lee, Argyle, etc, the bets you'd be able to make a living solely off of RPG artwork for gaming books is a laugh. I rarely see offers over 25/quarter page from the smaller guys. I just do them because it's something I do (D&D games once a month here), and they keep me on my toes. I draw this stuff for fun. My own personal artwork doesn't require a barbarian horde of amazon women charging a large dragon, so when I do that for an RPG, it's like... practice to keep me from doing the same thing over and over again with my regular gallery work.