Advice Needed! @_@

[cowsgomoooooo.livejournal.com]

Hi there!

I’m new to this place, but I’ve been lurking around for a while, and now I come to you for advice.

I commissioned an artist off of Deviantart when she made the announcement that she was going to close her commissions indefinitely. I paid her in full. The only thing is that this has been over a year ago (I commissioned her in May of 2010). This artist also happens to be extremely popular which is why I’ve been hesitant to say something about this directly to her.

My issue is not that it’s taken over a year for her to do my plush (she’s only barely started on it), but what she’s been doing in the meantime. When she posted her last call for commissions before she closed, she did warn that she has a long queue and it would take a while for plushes to be completed. She also stated that she would not be taking any more trades and that paid work gets priority over trades. Plus, she honestly does not seem like the type of person who would just randomly disappear on me with my money. So I was prepared to wait for a while for the plush to begin with.

However, during the year of the time period that I’ve waited, she’s made several different plushes for one friend as just either gifts or trades, who happens to be a moderator of a community that I am a part of which has also deterred me from mentioning anything. I JUST saw a discussion between the two in which they agreed to do a trade where the plush would be done by September which is in around a month.

I’m aware that she has her own work on the side, and she has a right to do what she will with her friends, so plushes will take a bit,  but I’m just a bit frustrated that she’s made at least 5+ plushes for this person as either gifts/trades when her queue is more than 50., and these people have been waiting for at least a year AND most of them have paid her in full. If she can get those plushes done for her friend within weeks, surely she can make a plush within a good time frame for her line of commissioners?

I’m at a loss for what to do or say. So I just wanted to know what the community’s stance is on this situation, since I’m not really sure what the “rule” is when it comes to commissioners and their personal transactions with their friends and then transactions with customers.

Thank you ;o;

Comments

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

I think if someone is clearly dragging their feet on working on prepaid work you have a right to be miffed. I guess for me it comes to a combination of degree, timing and honesty. If they are fulfilling earlier commitments, then fine, though the fact they are doing trades before paid work *when they denied this would happen* is a problem, as it essentially means they were lying. The odd gift here and there I don't think you can really say much about; artists deserve free time even with a queue and can work on personal stuff in that time. If they're doing loads of these with a big queue it'e more problematic again.

Taking on new trades though is totally wrong when you have a big queue, paid in full AND you said you wouldn't be taking trades so you could get the commission work done

[everainsley]

Pretty much this.

Also: "This artist also happens to be extremely popular which is why I’ve been hesitant to say something about this directly to her."

Please don't be afraid to confront them because they are popular. They're the same as some artist who has no kind of "name" at all. If they take money, they're obligated to complete the work (in a timely fashion) or return your money if they can't do it.

[glacidea.livejournal.com]

she's not dragging her feet as she finishes a fair amount each month of prior commissions. This was to help out a good friend who has been hit hard by death and money troubles.

[dyst-eudaimonia.livejournal.com]

Have you noted her and asked her about her progress?
If not, you should.

Whether an artist is popular or not, that doesn't excuse them from being accountable. If she took a queue that large, she should have been ready to work. She also should have realized the risk she was taking with such a large queue. If someone takes on a commission and doesn't do the work, they will inherently lose their good name.

You should not be afraid to ask for something you paid for, especially if you have been waiting for this long, and you have paid her in full.
You have every right to check in on her.


Honestly, if I were you, and she is doing things like that, if you want to try and give her a chance to redeem herself, go ahead, taking the high road is always a good thing..

But after a year, and not progress, I believe you have every right to ask for a refund since you are not getting your product like you expected.

[glacidea.livejournal.com]

Thing is, she has a list on a website she gives to commissioners that lists status of their plush and others that is updated fairly regularily. She has a huge list but does work through them. She has her DA where she posts everything that is finished. She rarely ever does personal plush from what I've seen. This was to help a friend who has had more than her fair share of bad luck.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

I just want to say that you shouldn't be afraid to politely ask how things are going just because an artist is popular.

You aren't harassing them. You aren't demanding anything unreasonable. You aren't even telling them to upload the finished piece RIGHT NOW. You just want an update.

In my opinion, you should first ask for an update. Don't mention trades. Mention her closing commissions only in a polite "how does that effect my order?" way. Then depending on what she says/how she reacts, you can request a deadline that she can adhere to, or a refund.

[antoj.livejournal.com]

just by reading your post i know /exactly/ who you are talking about and i have to say there is nothing to worry about as far as getting your plush!

i'm pretty sure she was upfront about the queue being long and that it would take a while to get the people near the bottom done. and i remember some people asking her these questions in the past as well... she is still getting commissioned slots done though. if you watch her project page (wont link since you didnt leave the name lol) she posts a lot of them every month or so. :o

you can definitely email her anyway. i've gotten a few completed projects from her...! she is super friendly and definitely will not run off with your money.

[glacidea.livejournal.com]

I know who this is about and she is good on her word and very sweet. She takes time because her work is professional. I can understand that it might be frustrating to wait for something you are excited for, but it is well worth the wait. If you have questions, contact her. She's very sweet.

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

you are so scared of her and i you made a new LJ account? @_@ what kind of people do you think we are? people have confronted her right on the community before and i assure you they are still fully fledged members. even friends have asked me and her about it before.

whomever you are, you can feel free to talk to either of us directly -- on your actual LJ name even. if you just ask her about your plush, she can tell you what is going on with it.


but i can explain a bit from what i know. she makes around 50-60 plush a month, commercially, from her commission queue, and as gifts/trades for her own personal reasons. its her full time job to make plush, and she assigns herself sort of "9 to 5" working on commissions or commercial plush. anything outside of that she works on whatever she pleases, including plush for friends or rush plush slots, etc.


point is plush for people like me, or winners of her rush plush auctions, do not take from her time she is working on commissions. that being said, i 100% understand why you are frustrated and angry, tho i don't think its worth an artists beware post? i thot this comm was for ripoff artists. @_@


anyway dear, aside from that, like everyone else here is saying. you should never be afraid to speak up against someone you feel is wronging you because they are "popular". i can assure you some people have called me a dickwad to my face and they are still members. people confront her about this all the time too, believe it or not, you're not alone.

just go talk to her-- using your real name ;)-- and i hope you'll be pleasantly surprised. hope i could be of some help in the meantime though :D

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I do think that's a perfect way to work. I work the same way, from in the morning t'ill 5, then I can do whatever and I have weekends off. It does help for people who have a lot of work or get burned out easily.

But, just to let you know, it's not only for ripoff artists. This place is here for a little of everything, from rude commissioners/artists (and I mean REALLY bad, not just a bit) to asking for advice. Here it seems more like they want advice, though all they needed to do was ask the artist themselves. I've noticed a lot of people seem to have trouble talking to artists, especially popular ones.

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

i think it's a good way too, and not just because i am the "friend" mentioned in this post who this artist makes dolls for often XD this artist is ridiculously professional and really does make 50-60 high quality plush per month which can be seen on her updates LJ :D


and i see! thanks for explaining. as for people being afraid to talk to popular artists (or moderators) i know how it is... people are completely terrified of me and i just mod a community about toys @__@ it must be ten times worse if its some popular artist with thousands of favourites per piece.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

There have been warnings on artists that take forever working on fully paid commissions but often post stuff for others.

While your friend's case most likely is different - i figure its a valid post since the OP is asking for advice in the first place

And to be honest, those cases I mentioned tend to include artists that keep taking commission after commission and finishing them arbitrarily.

In the end, I'm pretty sure this will marked as resolved soon enough.

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

yah i understand :D i think that's a good thing really! and if people need confidence and reassurance to talk to a popular artist then by all means.

i think this artist takes about 5 or so gift/rush slots a month on top of her like 50 commissions she makes per month (not new commissions, she really has closed those).

most artists can barely make one plush a month though, and if you don't see this artist's progress i can really imagine how pissed off it must make a person to see they keep making plush for friends like me or little projects around a community. that'd probably annoy the crap out of me even if i did understand all the circumstances, being perfectly honest. but i am kind of impatient.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I think this post was kind of unnecessary as the OP was looking for advice and being as polite as possible, and not using the artists name. Your post feels a little defensive and I think it should have been kept private if you truly wanted to do some good.

Saying that, I think the artist has kept people waiting far too long, and though the OP should have contacted her sooner, the -artist- should have contacted her within that year just to make sure everything was going smoothly.

I understand when people are afraid of speaking up about "popular" artists, because some of those artists then will turn around and not finish their commission as a result, or they may fear a backlash...or heck, someone coming in to defend that artist (As you are doing) even when the artist IS in the wrong.

I do hope this gets resolved, but it sounds as though this artist took on way more then she should have and needs to start contacting her outstanding orders to either refund, or fulfill them.

[denkimouse.livejournal.com]

well, since i am mentioned in the post myself, and i know the artist well, i probably was being a bit defensive. but i am not angry or anything, and i understand where OP is coming from.

anyways what you say might be true about most artists, but this artist is very reliable when it comes to getting people their plush, and OP will get their plush, 100%. she did take on lots of stuff but its not more than she can handle, she is like a robot or something... i dunno how she does it.

also she had a few hundred people on her list start of the year and is down to under a hundred now, but its still quite a lot, and its much more of a "you contact me, i cant contact every one of you" situation i think. if you are afraid of her then its no wonder no contact is happening.

i do apologize if i seemed defensive. i really am just trying to explain the situation as i understand it, and reassure OP they wont be in any trouble :)

[suzeyy.livejournal.com]

mte. I don't think the OP is being unreasonable.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

There are plenty of legit reasons for hiding a true ID when speaking out against some one popular. I don't care about popularity, I care about character, and when I've been wronged or seen someone wronged and dared to speak out against someone popular it's usually ME who gets trolled and flamed and harassed. Not the popular person. Because I am unpopular and not quiet about my opinions and the popular person has resources and support that I do not have.

So I can understand the OP hiding. I really truly can understand it!

(frozen)

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

Kinda off topic, but I'm AMAZED she hasn't been C&D'd by Nintendo by now. I'm sure they've done it to other artists pokemon artists, and in areas less likely to take away their own business (clothing etc). There's also characters in her gallery belonging to various companies well known to be vigorous copyright defenders, like Disney. Not that I want them to do that of course, but it's always a risk.

How should an artist making copyright characters handle a C&D? Just straight up refunds, or offering non copyright replacements?

(This is assuming she's selling Pokemon, Warners, Nickelodeon etc. plush without express permission from the owners, she may have secured it or only be doing these as gifts, but the question would still apply to a lot of other smalltime artists)

((sorry this is posted twice, I posted it deep in a thread which is about to collapse and I know you're not allowed to delete, but I'm interested in the answer and would like more people to see it))

(frozen)

[glacidea.livejournal.com]

I have a friend who is well versed in copyright laws. The reason that companies turn a blind eye to fanart is due to the labor that goes into it and thus the labor is > than the money acheived for the output. Most companies have machine made plush for minimal effort and max profits. Just read the copyright laws if you don't believe me :)

(frozen)

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

Which laws? could you link me to the specific section?

(frozen)

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

ugh, sorry, posted too soon

I believe Calgary Cosplay HAVE been C&D'd by Nintendo specifically, for making non plush items (hoodies) which did not even compete directly with Nintendo products. So it's a definite possibility. Disney also are known to be VERY vigilant.

So what should an Artist do if that happens?

(frozen)

[stormrunner1981.livejournal.com]

Since I took a class (a full quarter) on copyright law in art university I will say this.

A company can, and has (Disney in particular) made a blanket "do not sell" of their copyright and trademarked characters.

It doesn't matter if it is mass produced or not, they have ever right if you get paid to sue you for any profit you make as well as the cost of bringing you to court.

Disney doesn't even allow pre-schools to use their characters nor day care centers because the centers themselves make money. They contacted many a day care with C&D orders to remove the characters.

Nintendo at one point also send out C&Ds on people not mass producing items, not just Calagry.

They do it on case by case basis - I'm sure Usa may not be since most of hers are under the radar - but plushie artist have been C&Ded for making Pokemon even if the patterns were used only once.

They won't hunt down the internet but people do contact them, then they investigate. There are many people on the up and up with copyright laws that can and will directly contact companies if they see a mass profit being made.

Because of my grades in the copyright class I was asked to be one - but I had to take another class that I could not afford to take due to credits. This was only so I had direct contact access and nothing to do with being a stool pigeon or a joy kill - it is to help companies.

And before it is asked - I buy all my music, movies, games, and other software - I don't bootleg. And it is because of how much trouble I know companies go through to protect their own work - I would not want someone taking my copyrighted (registered) story and characters and mass producing things from them.

Just as with Andrew Hussie and Homestuck.

[usakochan.livejournal.com]

Hi OP~ :D If this is about me I am more than happy to answer questions. Never!Never hesitate to contact me (or any other commissioner for that matter) if you ever have a concern. ♥ ^^

I am more than happy to reply and give you piece of mind~~

Please feel free to contact me and don't feel scared/intimidated/embarrassed. ^^ You can even note me here on LJ and stay anon if you prefer~ ^^

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Alright guys, we have a post of over 100 comments and probably over half of them are arguing about copyright and back and forth. I froze the thread, please drop the topic in this post, as it is rather off-topic.

Take it to PMs if you want to continue your discussion. Thanks!

[ddrcrono.livejournal.com]

As someone who only has a side interest in the content of this community, I would agree with the concerns the OP has made clear, particularly because I've noticed that there is quite a bit of favouritism and the enforcement and interpretation of the community rules is unduly affected by such; I would be afraid of social retribution if I were in OP's position as well, so posting anonymously was definitely the right way to go.

As for the person who's being talked about, I've always found their business model to be a little...suspect, let's just say. (Take a really big and long line of commissions, and suddenly people are willing to pay big bucks for "rush" orders. The lineup of commissions itself is necessary to keep that economic model going, pretty clever in a way). Despite the fact that I feel it's a little on the shady side, part of me really wants to commend them for having a very successful business model.