Requesting a refund

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Howdy!

It appears I'm in a bit of a bind, and I'm not sure what to do if the artist in question responds negatively to my refund request.

I commissioned an artist only a few days ago for a two character adult image. I paid her promptly, and she said she would not be able to work until next week. All of this was ok for me. I then later learned that at least two of her commissions were partially traced from porn videos, and was shown proof. Needless to say, I am actually very uncomfortable with the thought that my commission could possibly be traced. I sent her a simple note saying:

Hi!

I'm sorry to have to ask, but may I kindly request a refund?

- Taasla"

This is the part where I need advice. I don't really know what to say should she ask me why I am requesting a refund. I don't want to blatantly accuse her of anything, but the overlays I have been shown is enough to make me not want to finish. She has no ToS as far as I've been able to find.

Edit: I spoke to the artist, was honest with her, and found out she has already spent my money. =\ We've worked out a deal where she will finish my work, and I'll just take it as a lesson learned.

Comments

[angeling.livejournal.com]

If you don't want to outright state why, you could just say something came up and you need the money, and since she hasn't started yet you figured it would be okay to cancel your order.

[skiota.livejournal.com]

uhm....well if you don't want to be direct you could always lie and tell her that you had an 'unexpected financial responsibility' involving your car/health/computer/something that breaks easily and often and that you really need the money back.

[hellebore.livejournal.com]

She didn't provide you with a ToS before accepting it? That's trouble for both of you. If she tries to fight it, remind her that you didn't see anything written about refunds...

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Yikes. Honestly, I think being upfront and politely honest might be a good idea. I personally would want to let them know that I've seen some damning evidence of traced-work and I'm uncomfortable with following through the process. Sometimes it's best that the artist know why they're losing your business.

However, I'm wondering if she has a TOS, as Hellebore said up there. It could spell trouble either way.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

I agree here. Don't BS anyone if you feel uncomfortable about the possibility they will trace.

Lying about 'things coming up' only looks poorly people who ACTUALLY have very serious life issues come up and need a refund.

Plus, agreeing with Neolucky, let this artist know you aren't cool with tracing, it might help get them to change if they know they might lose business over it.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is what I did. She denied it, and informed me that my money was already spent. Considering I paid her as a service, which IRRC is not covered under paypal, I told her to please finish the work. Thankfully this isn't an expensive lesson.

[raeraesama.livejournal.com]

I'd just say something like unforseen circumstances or personal reasons.

[ocelotish]

I would just ask for a refund for personal reasons, or say that you've reconsidered and decided that you wouldn't be happy with the finished product.

I wouldn't lie about why you wanted the refund, but you don't have to be overly specific either. If she is making a derivative image that violates copyright, that is not what you paid for and you deserve a full refund. I'm pretty sure that legal activity is assumed in all contracts.

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

This seems the best phrasing of all the suggestions that you don't feel you'd be happy with the finished product.

If you want to toss in that you don't want to waste their time with lots of revisions, that may encourage them to issue the refund to avoid getting into a cycle of endless revisions.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I think you should tell her exactly why. And definitely don't lie about it.
I mean, be polite, but I think it's for the best the artist knows exactly why people are withdrawing?

How did you pay? If they refuse, I'd say try to do a paypal claim "not as described" (I mean, getting a trace for a commission isn't what you think you're buying...).

[jurann.livejournal.com]

A fair amount of artists actually use reference from porn mags and films, honestly. I'm not sure there's a real big issue with it, though I can understand why you might be uncomfortable with it. Some really big name artists like Wookiee and K'sharra openly admit to using references nearly 100% of the time when doing porn pieces. I would honestly just politely ask the artist if that is what they intend to do for your commission, and if so and it makes you uncomfortably, then politely decline and request a refund. I'm curious though, personally, why using references offends you?

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I don't think Taalsa has any issues at all with referencing (I seem to remember her being for it in the other post about it), it's the tracing part that is off putting.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

It's less about referencing, more about tracing then selling the work on commission. Most people here understand referencing is a useful tool. The OP is saying they're uncomfortable with the artist -tracing- their image.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure Wookiee takes his own photos for reference - at least that's the impression I got looking at his "how I do this" guide a long time ago.

The issue is usually a) if the person is /heavily/ referencing photos /they did not take themselves/, is a copyright violation.
ALso b) if the person is tracing rather than referencing, the result usually looks bad (since they are not understanding the underling subtleties of shape)

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but I am not going to spend my money buying something that is traced. I can do the work myself if that's the case.

There's a large difference between referencing and tracing. If this were referencing for poses, then I wouldn't be uncomfortable. The mere fact is that the images I was sent lines up exactly, and is therefore traced.

[sovy.livejournal.com]

"I don't want to blatantly accuse her of anything, but the overlays I have been shown is enough to make me not want to finish."

You are going to have to tell the artist that this is the reason you want your money back if they ask why.

If you really feel that uncomfortable telling them then just take the 'loss' and don't commission the artist again.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

If the artist has not started with the work, I dont see why not. Unless there's something in the ToS

On the other hand, I see some irony with some of the comments about "unexpected expense" as a reason to ask for a refund -- since the community normally says others' financial problems are no reason for not getting paid for your work.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yep - although I doubt the members suggesting that are the same ones who rale against it

[ocelotish]

This is also before work is done. They haven't done work to get paid for yet, as far as we know at least.

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

I agree with a lot that was said above. But it's up to you whether you do end up giving her teh truth about you not being comfortable with her tracing porn images to sell as her art.

[roocodendron.livejournal.com]

I think I know who you're talking about (did they just jump accounts?), and if it is who I think it is then yeah, I saw the overlays and they definitely weren't "warped" to "fit" the photos as this person is claiming.

I would still want a refund, otherwise you run the chance of getting traced art in return :/

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's the person! She told me she's already spent my money. =\ Because I sent it as a "service", I don't think I can dispute to get it back, so I asked her to finish what she could. Thankfully, the commission itself wasn't terribly expensive. It's just going to have to be a lesson learned. I can't complain, though. Out of commissioning as many artists as I have, this is only the second one to have an issue.

[pyroro.livejournal.com]

That's really low.. and isn't it a ..well a non written rule to not spend a customers money till the work is completed? I can understand if there is an emergency but otherwise she hasn't started the commission and still spent the money. If it's not too much of an inconvenience could you possibly post the examples of the traces she did?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I can send them via note to anyone who wants them, but be aware that they are adult and sexual in nature. :)

[thaily.livejournal.com]

The edit sounds unsatisfactory, I'd still demand a refund. I wouldn't even want a partial refund because tracing film stills =/= a sketch.
Can we get a name so we can avoid this.. Person?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid to completely out her just yet until I have something for what I've paid. I was the one who backed off and told her to do the work once she told me she was going to send me her "last $13" to start the refund. My senses already told me that this was going to take ages with lots of guilt tripping that I just don't want to deal with atm.