Artist/Builder Beware!!!

[avianmaverick.livejournal.com]

(**DISCLAIMER** Before you go on trying to defend this person, let me just say that this is my personal experience with her.)

WHO: Jessica Hope (On Facebook)/PoprockGrey (on FA)

WHERE: Facebook

WHAT: Crow Wings

WHEN: December 31, 2010 - August 15, 2011

PROOF:

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Firststage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SecondStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/ThirdStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/FourthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/FifthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SixthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/SeventhStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/EighthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/NinthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/TenthStage.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at50745PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at50808PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at51058PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103653PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103718PM.png

http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k541/AvianMaverick/Screenshot2011-08-17at103748PM.png

 

EXPLAIN: Ok, so what had happened here was I commissioned Poprock back in December for some crow wings. I was having a different builder make a head for me, so I thought it’d be a good idea to make a collaboration of multiple builders for a partial suit. Poprock was saying, at the time, that she was really desperate for commissions, so I thought I could help her out by hiring her. I was talking with her on Second Life about the commission I had in mind, and even modeling it after a different builders design. When I asked for a price quote, she said that it would cost me $125, which I thought was a reasonable price. Afterwards, I asked Poprock how long it would take to make them, and she said that it would only take a couple of months to do. So, from there I sent her a duct tape dummy of my arm, and an envelope containing the down payment for my wings. ($50) In about 2 weeks she began working on the wings and had a livestream video of her working on the wings. In a couple of days she sent me a picture of the progress of the wings. They looked pretty rough so I hoped that they’d look better over time, and in all honesty I was just happy that I was getting the commission made. Periodically, I would check in to see if any progress was made on the wings. At first I was asking once a week because I was really excited having this commission done. Poprock told me, whenever I asked, that no progress had been made on them since the livestream video. I started asking less often because I wanted to give her some space and not put any pressure on her. 

A month passes and I ask about the progress of my wings. She again says that no progress has been made. When the next month passes, she asks on Facebook for some money so that she could buy something. Out of generosity, I gave her that money and we both agreed that it would be put towards paying off my wings. ($35) I was hoping that by paying her a little more to what I owed, that it would motivate her to work on my wings. To my disappointment, another month passes and zero progress has been made. Yet again, she asks for money for another thing (which I don’t know what it was) so I gladly obliged and paid her the remainder of the money on my wings. ($40) Of course I was hoping that some progress was made on my wings by now...she tells me that barely anything had been done. I was remaining patient as possible with her because I knew that if I said the wrong thing, she’d probably get mad at me and take even longer on making them. It’s around April 2011 this time, and I ask her if she could give me a deadline on when the wings might be finished. At first she tells me that she’ll have them done by the end of the month. As April came to a close, I asked if she was almost done, and Poprock told me that only one wing was done, but I would have to wait a bit longer. Also, to state, there were multiple times when she was guilt tripping me by explaining why the wings were taking so long, and she even offered me a full refund in May because she was feeling really upset about some stuff. Being a nice guy, I told her that I was willing to wait for the wings instead. (I fell for her guilt trip) 

Eventually, she told me that the new deadline would be at Anthrocon 2011. Even as the days drew closer to Anthrocon, I still asked if any progress had been made on the wings. She dodged the question by saying they’d be done by Anthrocon. So, Anthrocon arrives and I eagerly wait to finally pick up my wings at Poprock’s booth. When I get there, she tells me that they aren’t done. She goes on to say that she has a bunch of commissions in progress, that she was booked until Christmas, and that she’d fit my wing commission “in there, somewhere”. In other words, it wasn’t a priority to her. Let it be noted that she constantly was asking for more commissions as each month went by, while my wings remained untouched. Nearly a month after Anthrocon goes by and I asked if she had done anything with my wings. Wonder of wonders, nothing had been done at all. So, what did I do? I spent 2 hours online talking to her trying to motivate her to work on my wings and other people’s commissions. She agreed to that, and I was glad that some progress was about to be made. One more month goes by, and I ask...she tells me nothing’s been done. 

In this 8 month timespan, only one wing was finished and the other one hadn’t even been started on. At this point, my patience ran thin and I had to ask for a refund. She was highly confused by this and didn’t understand why. I explained to her that I was tired of waiting for them. Poprock flips out on me and begins asking all of these questions of why I didn’t say anything. I told her that I was trying to be a nice guy, but in all honesty, I was being too lenient with her. So she tells me that she’s only going to give me 30% back of what I paid once she sells the wings to someone else. First off, how many crows are out there who have the exact same arm size as me, and want the wings? Secondly, only 30%?! I paid her to do a service and she didn’t provide the service at all! 

Eventually, I found out that she’s been manipulating other furs as well. Apparently, all of the commissions she was asking people to take from her, were just excuses so she could take the money from them and run off with it. There have been multiple reports from people who commissioned her, where they’ve been waiting up to two years for a commission. Not only that, some people didn’t even get a refund or any kind of update from her. She would often get pissed at them when they asked for an update and she would even go as far as to block them from all form of contact. 14 other people have reported cases similar to mine. In addition to that, some people who actually got the commissions from her were highly disappointed. One of the suits she made at a con even fell apart. The stitching was bad and it couldn’t even hold itself up for a second.

Sorry that this is so long, but all of this had to be explained in explicit detail so I could warn others of this horrible experience I had with this builder. I really worked hard to try and be her friend, but she was just using me the entire time. On one final note, I found out from a friend that Poprock was taking about me behind my back at Otakon and she told him that I hadn’t paid for my wings in full and that I was being extremely rude to her and pressuring her for the wings. Both of these statements are completely false! So that’s my experience here. Please, PLEASE, beware of her!

Comments

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

You were a friend so I trusted you to follow me TOS that you agree'd to over either Facebook (which you and your friends that are actually HARASSING me on and keep getting deleted) or over steam chat.

I will agree that when I first started, I did NOT have a TOS. I asked you later once it was made and written out, if you agree'd to it. You said YES.

This is why I would tell you constantly that I did not like speaking over Steam chat ECT. You still insisted.

Also, not 3 days before you randomly said you wanted the refund, you said it was fine. You never ONCE said you needed them by a certain date 100%.

If need be, I will defend myself in the court of law, and by that I can subpoena Facebook and possibly Steam for all the information, IP addresses and anything in which would be evidence against my case.

As it stands, you have been slandering my name and posting screenshots with omitted information. You and many others have been filed on FA for it and the admins have removed the journals and warned you.

If need be, I WILL be pursuing this in the court of law. I will NOT tolerate my up and coming fursuiting business being slandered, people spreading libel and the mud throwing.

Also, I remember reading you claimed to need the money? Then why did you get the same product commissioned from another maker?

[delphinios.livejournal.com]

You're not helping your case at all.
Why don't you sit down and post a proper rebuttal with any proof you can supply, instead of a childish rant?

[copper-season.livejournal.com]

Not trying to be insulting but I'm curious. Did you finish the commission in a couple of months like you said you would? Did the OP pay you in full for the commission? Did you send updates to the OP after the livestream and picture?

Also you mentioned that you did not have a TOS in place when the OP commissioned you but after you accepted the commission you put one in place and asked the OP to honor the TOS, even when it was not in place at the time of commission. If you did not have it in place when you first accepted to build her crow's wings then your TOS is not binding at all in this case.

Show the community where you finished her commission, sent her a refund, or at least offered to do either of those things to prove your side instead of just saying that you are an honest business person.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

I think it would be best if you posted screenshots of the omitted information and the harassment you got from others, and perhaps linked to your TOS. There needs be more information on what's happening here.

That said, even though a specific date was never given (though Anthrocon would count as one of these), you clearly missed the general deadlines by a long shot several times. I understand unexpected things come up, but it probably would have been best if you either made hers a priority because of the missed deadlines, or told her that there is no deadline and you'll get to it as soon as you sort out your other problems. From the commissioners POV, it would get frustrating if an artist said they were going to have it by this time but then not have it over and over again.

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I asked them many times if it was ok, and they always said ok.
I'll be able to get as many screenshots as possible. Sadly, my facebook was recently removed by facebook and I need to subpoena FB to get the information.

If you know of any other way to get a subpoena other than filing a lawsuit, them please let me know. I want to be able to defend myself since this is just too much for me.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

I think she didn't want to come off as impatient. There are some artists out there who will snap at costumers if they tell them the commission is taking too long, and she probably didn't know if you were one of those people or not. She probably didn't want to risk it.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about how to get a subpoena. Sorry.

And something I forgot to mention initially. Threatening to take the OP to court is a little uncalled for at this point. You don't have proof except your word right now, and there's always a chance to discuss this calmly and reasonably with the OP before resorting to court. Like other people have said, explain your side of the story in a calm manner, even if you don't have proof just yet. That's the best thing to do right now.

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I have attempted to speak with them, only after they have threatened taking me to court, did I think of it. They blocked me on FB, Blocked me on FA, and I can't recall their email. I would have been more than willing to speak with them, but having forms of contact blocked makes it a bit hard.

But I always let him know it was ok, and he was a friend so i thought he would be able to tell me. Also, I did offer a full refund within the past few months, but they insisted upon the wings. I think due to this, I was a little more accepting of the "Oh it is ok" And the "It is fine" that were said.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

The OP threatened to take you to court and blocked you everywhere? That's definitely something the OP didn't mention. I'd like to here the OP's response to this when he comes back.

If you offered them the full refund like you said, then why did you only offer them a partial later? Unless you where going to give them more later?

[fenrirs-child.livejournal.com]

It seems like they offered a full refund because they were going to be the ones to cancel it, as opposed to the commissioner canceling it after more work had been done. Generally when the commissioner cancels, they don't get a full refund. This is a tricky case though, due to the lack of original agreement/TOS agreement proof.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Oh yea, I forgot the artist offered first and the costumer wanted it later. That makes sense now.

Yea, what this post really needs is more proof from both sides.

[fenrirs-child.livejournal.com]

QFT, but it doesn't look likely unfortunately :/ Such a shame really, it seems like it got blown way out of proportion and probably could have been remedied by a cool conversation by both parties...

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I tried many times, but I was blocked from doing so but the commissioner.

[fenrirs-child.livejournal.com]

Well, sometimes people just don't want to listen, and forcing it isn't gonna help either. Think of it this way, it could be a lot worse, it could be way more money. It wouldn't be the end of the world to scratch up a refund like it would be for more money, yanno?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I'm doing my best to do that actually. I only have so much of an income. That's also partially why I have been trying to get some more work both in my retail job and taking a few quick-to-do commissions.

[fenrirs-child.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a good plan, the sooner you can put this behind you and move on with your life, the better. I wish you luck!

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

I honestly have no idea what to believe anymore. Until the OP comes back and explains further or the artist provides proof for her side of the story, I'm not taking either side.

[avianmaverick.livejournal.com]

So, looks like I need to clear a lot of stuff up. For starters, I stopped commenting on this post because it was becoming extremely stressful to get into every single last person's request. Now that certain portions have been brought to my attention, I feel like I can properly address as much as I can. First off, The reason why I only selected particular points in my conversations with this builder is because the vast majority of our conversations were of me trying to cheer her up when she was feeling down. Having multiple instances of such event would have been pointless to show. I only wanted to show material relevant to the post. Next, the reason why I never asked for the refund before is because I truly felt bad for this builder. She constantly told me what was going on and how she was hurting for business. However, as I noticed that she constantly took on more and more business and pushed my commission further back, I became upset over that. With all due respect, she should've taken care of her previous commissions before taking on more.

Now the reason for asking for the refund so suddenly, was due to the fact that I had been waiting for 8 months at this point. No matter what she says, It had been 8 months of waiting by the time August came around. I have proof of that statement. In addition, just in case this may have been addressed, the reason why her profile picture was grayed out on the screen shots is because that profile had been flagged off in the past, but my PM's with her remained. I still have every single last message she ever sent to me on there.

Lastly, I never really agreed to only accepting the 30% refund back (Which by the way I never got). She only gave me that option and nothing else what so ever. So far, I have had no communication from her, no sign of ever seeing my money, or any amount of money at all. No matter what, this is going to keep dragging on forever. I gave the evidence, I said my peace, but the fact of the matter is, no matter what, it's going to be near impossible for anyone to properly explain anything without the other one contradicting all statements. All I can say is that I'm being honest, I'm not trying to manipulate anyone, and I'm just hurt by this whole ordeal.

[nutmeg talon (from livejournal.com)]

I would like to also mention on his behalf that Aves here did NOT block Poprock. Her accounts were flagged on facebook and gone. However, im certain you can get the admins to revive it if the court required that for the information inside.

http://www.facebook.com/PoprockGrey2

^ that there is her new account. If she truly wanted to get in communication, she could have used her new account. So now, lets see if that 85% done wing set is really that far, hmm?

Perhaps her refund may be still available? Bad blood or not, she is still obligated to some form of compensation, otherwise, she basically just haggled him out of a hefty sum of money.

DISMISSED.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

You never ONCE said you needed them by a certain date 100%.


Do you deny you told them it would be done in a couple months, then april/may, then AC?

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I do not, however once the general time came, I asked them many times if it would be ok if I bumped them back. I also would say I "may" be able to complete it by them.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Ok. Well, yes, OP shoulda been more upfront with you. But, sounds to me like you were stringing this guy along and taking advantage of them trying to be easy with you. Taking over twice as long on something as the original estimation does not entitle you to keep any of their money and not send them anything.

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

But I'm not taking the commission and keeping all the money.

I am selling the commission once complete for the refund amount and send that to the commissioner once the new owner pays for it. I am only selling it for the refund amount so I don't profit from it any further.

Also, I did offer a full refund when I was able, and they preferred me to continue. It wasn't too long ago even but again, my facebook was removed so I am unable to get the information. (believe me, I've learned: ONLY EMAIL from here out!)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

I didn't say you couldn't keep ALL the money, I said ANY money. This guy has waited 8 months for his piece, and came to AC expecting it only to be let down, so now you're planning to just give a partial refund? Or are you going to give a full refund now?

Even if that's in your TOS it doesn't mean it's okay.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

There is no mud-slinging in this post. It's the experience of a too-nice commissioner too meek to put their foot down as you continually took advantage of them to miss deadlines (Anthrocon), using the excuse "never needed them 100% by a certain date". If he asked for Anthrocon, he asked for Anthrocon, and just because he wasn't an ass about it does not in any way give you the right to have blown him off.

If you have omitted information, by all means post it, but your extremely defensive responses so far seem to support the "he was my friend and was too nice to ever say 'no' or 'please finish them right now' so I just kept stringing him along'. I'm sorry if this comment sounds harsh, but if you're so concerned about your 'up and coming' business, perhaps you should be more timely with your commissions in the first place, and more professional in your correspondence-- more updates and less chat.

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

I posted below.

There is plenty of mud slinging.
"Eventually, I found out that she’s been manipulating other furs as well. Apparently, all of the commissions she was asking people to take from her, were just excuses so she could take the money from them and run off with it. There have been multiple reports from people who commissioned her, where they’ve been waiting up to two years for a commission. Not only that, some people didn’t even get a refund or any kind of update from her. She would often get pissed at them when they asked for an update and she would even go as far as to block them from all form of contact. 14 other people have reported cases similar to mine. In addition to that, some people who actually got the commissions from her were highly disappointed. One of the suits she made at a con even fell apart. The stitching was bad and it couldn’t even hold itself up for a second."

Where is the proof of that?