Advice: Paypal Invoices and TOS

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Hiyo~

Another one of those "advice" posts concerning artists and commissioners.

Looking through the paypal tag I swore I saw the topic of 'invoices' brought up but I must've dreamt it or something. There is one though it didn't highlight anything I was questioning so~

While I was revamping my terms and prices I wanted to ask about paypal invoicing[goes to the paypal site]

For artists:
1. Do you use it?
2. If not is there any reason? [Even "I just never considered it" is ok.]
3. If you do is it convenient or have you had any troubles in the process? [From your side or a commissioner's complaint?]

For commissioners:
1. Have you ever been sent an invoice for commission work?
2. Did you find it easy or difficult/troublesome?
3. If you've never been sent an invoice -would- you mind if an artist used this to get payment? Or do you prefer logging in and sending it yourself?

I'm sure there are other questions or things people can answer that should be considered on the topic, so feel free to say~

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And the personal gibberish for why I ask:

I've been revamping my terms and prices etc as I said, I'm reverting back to using GBP as a base instead of approximating the USD equivalent, the currency conversion changes way to much as of late. Though I'm wondering if it might be easier to invoice with the amount, as I'm sure most of you know the occasional person refuses to read properly and I get "Oh I thought you meant $20 not £20". This is immensely rare I know, so I doubt I'll start seriously considering invoicing unless it does happen more than the occasional slip up D8

Admittedly the other worry is commissioners not having the funds at hand. I state in my new terms it's best to have the money before applying for slots but half of the cases I received in the past are "I get paid later in the week could you wait a bit?" Which I don't mind, as all they get is small preview sketches before paying then a finished article and it gives me time to dish out more sketches and get ahead of the queue while I wait etcetc~

Apparently the invoicing system works that you can send "reminders" and I'm guessing you can set a deadline date when to stop requesting and move onto others in the queue which seems reasonable though I've not seen any information one what happens if a commissioner doesn't pay by that date?

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Also if it's allowed and if any have time it'd be awesome to get some crit on my revamped terms, I was planning on not cluttering this post but I was going to ask later anyway D8 if it's ok with the mods. [Else I can edit and remove if not~]

[Might be NWS nothing explicit, undetailed nudes though!]~Clicky~

Any crit on the layouts would be welcomed too!

I'm not used to writing terms/walls of text so it feels immensely long as it is, hoping it's ok and covers everything important...


Thanks for reading my gibberish~!

Comments

[animecat.livejournal.com]

I heavily use the PayPal invoice system! It's wonderful for keeping track of your orders, who's paid and who hasn't, and come tax time, it easier to separate your commission/sales orders from the other times you used Paypal for purchases, etc. I also find its helpful not only to organize orders but to track which invoice belongs to which client. In sending invoices, all my clients have to click on the e-mail it sends them to pay the account. Invoices allow you to add shipping and tax rates, and have the exact amount prepped in order to send to your client. No worries about if the client sent you enough funds on their own, or did they get the right payment type - no more accidental payments as "personal" or "gifts", which can get you in trouble!

Give 'em a shot! They're super-easy.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

I never even considered it to be helpful with organising and monitoring income for tax time D8 Thanks! I was just immensely worried invoicing would be a hassle more than help but when I thought on it more it seemed less confusing on the buyers part over the personal/service/goods mistakes 8|

Thanks!

[majime.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, I also didn't consider it to be that helpful. I'm definitely going to try it out more often now! :D


Thanks for posting the advice/info!

[animecat.livejournal.com]

No prob! Its a great tool, it should be used more often!

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Speaking of invoices, do you use your real name on your invoice? I think it would be a good idea legally, but I'm not exactly comfortable with giving out my real name. Maybe that's just me.

[animecat.livejournal.com]

Every time you use Paypal, it gives out your legal name, whether you're the buyer or the seller. Just FYI. But the invoice feature does allow you to customize your header's contact info, so you only have to display what info you want. For example, I use my real name, my studio name, and my e-mail. I don't want my home address on every invoice that goes out.

But having your legal name in your Paypal info is a good idea anyway, because if Paypal needs to verify your identity, well, there it is. At least they don't want your SSN!

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay, I'll just keep my real name on there then. Thank you!

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Hey, another questions about invoices (since you are so knowledgeable about invoices ;) ). Are they good with partial payments or can you only receive full payments? Like, if the customer sends half the payment, will the invoice say it's half received, or do you have to create a whole new invoice?

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

*question

[temrin.livejournal.com]

Same with the others, i'm totaly trying this :D

[hbruton.livejournal.com]

I love paypal and have used it for years. never have had any problems other than folks ordering a commision under one name and paying under a different one.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Same! Even looking at the other options makes me recoil back to paypal. So far no troubles at all~

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I've actually been thinking of doing it, though I've never done it before so I'm not too sure how yet.

I charge in CAD and I make sure to let people know NOT to send it under a personal option, but, they'll still send it as USD and a gift. I always give them a copy pasted info on what to do and how to do it (since most don't know how to send as a different currency).

But, considering how many times people seem to overlook it, it might be best for me to send invoices.

It's also common in general for people to send things a gift, so it can be a good idea to send an invoice instead.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Yea I'm in the "not quite sure" stage though on the business side it does seem a good tool, thought it'd be best to ask!

I only just started to realise why some sent payments get fined and others don't DX Though as you say some people are too used to sending gifts instead of realising they're -paying for something- I'll have to try and make it clearer or just invoice instead.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Actually, the more I think about it and see replies, the better I think it is. It's especially helpful for those who don't quite know how to use paypal or, for example, just don't read your instructions. I've had people send me 38$ CAD rather then the 40$ I asked for because that's what it was in their own currency ^^;

No matter how clear you do it, it'll help but not prevent it. This is what I send them:

"For payment, my paypal is the same as this email, please select services when sending. And how to send as CAD rather then USD: When you go to put in how much you want to send, you can chose the currency beside it. It will convert for you. "

But yup, they still get it wrong when actually sending it. So in the end invoicing is better.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

XD It gives me chills when I hear of the mistaken currency troubles when getting paid, I did originally have "or you can pay in USD from paypal's current conversion" but took it out quickly after XD that would've been asking for trouble. I tend to worry terribly when things don't run smoothly haha so yea I may well use it after my current batch is done ;u;

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

It's not too big a deal really c: I just refund right away and explain the mistake. It is annoying when they complain about it but usually it's just a mistake since they're used to their own currency.

But yes, invoices would make things much smoother. Just make sure they know before hand what currency they'll be paying, people really get peeved when you don't.

[emirasan.livejournal.com]

I didn't actually know about it until recently when I made an order for supplies and the person I ordered from uses them. I doubt I will use it myself as I don't get a lot of commissions online, but I will keep it in mind should that change.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Same here I wouldn't have known about it at all, I don't buy much through paypal and usually get -auto invoiced- on ebay and such which would be a hassle if I had to log on and make sure I inputted all the right numbers etc So figured could be useful for custom art orders too :]

[angeling.livejournal.com]

I think using the invoice would be perfect in your case. People sometimes just forget to switch currencies, too (I have received a few mistaken CAD payments this way). I have never actually used the system though so I can't really tell you about reminders and such. :(a

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

I've always used USD out of convenience as the majority of the market comes from there but lately seeing artists actually use the currency they rely on makes it a bit easier to list my own for sure 8] and hopefully will help cease the "oh I thought you meant USD".

[everainsley]

I use it whenever I get a chance to. I really don't know how I did all my selling years back on eBay (before they merged with PayPal) without it.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

I did worry a bit that it could only be used for goods actually but it does have a "goods/service" drop down menu so I guess that answers that~ Thanks for sharing so far it seems to be a solid service to use :]

[everainsley]

It really has been, and it can help cut down on people sending payments as gifts, or in the wrong currency.

[dave-t-wolfe.livejournal.com]

I thought I read something about Paypal is required to submit the invoice to the IRS.

[animecat.livejournal.com]

PayPal is going to be required to submit ALL account activity to the IRS as of this year's tax season, I believe.

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

Care to enlighten me? I'm very curious.
And is this just for invoices or money requests as well? Unless money requests are still classified as invoices to paypal.

[animecat.livejournal.com]

From PayPal themselves: https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=marketing_us%2FIRS6050W

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

"Applies to sellers receiving over $20,000 in gross payment volume AND over 200 payments"

Which I'm sure 90% of furry artists do not do.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

But regardless, they should be filing anyways. Income is income, via paypal or not, and it's not hard for the IRS to come take a look at your activity should you omit it.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

True, but not everyone does.

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

They want your "Social Security Number (SSN) or Employer Identification Number (EIN)" And they say they will mail out forms to you too? This is kind of confusing. Or maybe I'm looking at it wrong?

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

They'll only mail out forms if you fulfill those two requirements ($20k sales income and 200 sales transactions, for all accounts that you own). I don't know if that means they'll still be reporting everything or not, but it specifically says they'll only be sending out that form under those circumstances.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

As far as I knew Paypal and the EU are already in cahoots, so if I made a certain amount within the year the Revenue folk would know about it. Not much of a worry as ljmydayaway says, not many small time artists get to that point D8

[databank.livejournal.com]

I've asked artists that I know are from a different country what currency they're talking (had one that just said "Dollars", and I had to go "Canadian, US, or New Zealand as an example~" as for why I was asking) - the invoice system looks pretty handy, yes, and more exacting. I wouldn't mind a "get me your paypal and I'll invoice you" from an artist.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Good to know! I thought it might be a bit 'invasive' to use it but so far it's just another way to get paid :]

It's always good to ask as well [especially when the $ is used universally for several currencies XD] I'm sure they appreciate it! ;u;

[databank.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the positive comments there~

I also realized that this kinda fits in well with an impulse I had a while back to link my more common e-mails with my PayPal address. That's the only issue I can see with invoicing is if a customer isn't talking with you on an e-mail linked to their account.

[cappucola.livejournal.com]

invoices are great, especially if you don't like getting USD because you need to convert it to a different currency. By sending an invoice to a customer for a commission it will make sure it's paid for in the right currency and you yourself can select the invoice as either a "goods" "service" or other such option.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

After hearing how much trouble they take out of the overlooked mistakes in transactions I think I'll just make some templates and use it from now on. Thanks!

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I always use it; I'm from Canada so it's a way to make sure people don't send US funds, not sending as gift and all that other jazz.

The one time I've had a client send a payment without me invoicing them first was the one time someone underpaid me :T

[animecat.livejournal.com]

Heh, when one of my clients jump the gun and send payment before I send an invoice, I always refund the payment and then tell them why, followed by asking them to kindly wait for the invoice.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

For some reason I could hear "Just take my money already!" XD This is why I dreaded switching to my own currency but looks like invoicing is the way to go.

[kinas.livejournal.com]

this i like! :D bookmarking for future reference ♥

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Glad it's brought more attention to the service, was thinking either everyone but me was using it or there was some big reason why no one used it that I wasn't seeing D8 ha~

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I just thought about another good reason to do invoices. While I know doing porn commissions using paypal is against rules, people do it anyways, but if the commission writes what the payment is for, the artist can get in trouble. You can make sure they don't write it by it being you sending a money request.

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Yea that is a plus I was thinking on, I've been hovering over Alertpay for a while but still not quite sure about it 8| I hear equal amounts of horror stories and the whole "send a sample so we can fee you extra" policy seems odd [apart from checking what they're providing a service to of course but more fees for it??]. Then there's how many people that are actually willing to sign up and I've tried to hold off the "charge more for this kind of work", but on the flipside I could always say Clean work gets permanent discounts XD

Still invoicing would get rid of the worry of someone risking both accounts and writing graphic details on their commission while paying DX

[borderdog.livejournal.com]

The issue I have with invoices is that at least half of my customers pay me randomly and I just keep track of the amount when I receive a payment from them.

It's difficult to send an invoice when you don't know when and how much :X

[bambicandi.livejournal.com]

Hmm I only deal with receiving payments working on a project at a time, I don't really think I could handle multiple payments at once at all DX so when I get a paypal email I'll know who it's from because I'm not expecting payment from anyone else XD

Though I've yet to try the invoice method yet I'd probably send it after the sketch a approved and they're happy with it and the price [I'd probably have to make sure they're happy with it to give the estimated USD value].

When you send it is up to you though, seriously, in your terms/procedures you can state when you expect pay which the commissioner has to agree to, though I guess it can be confusing when dealing with costume making D8 [just noticed your site XD derp] Guess you'd have to browse the artists advice tag and find other makers that ask when's a good time to get pay, I hear costumers have to pay up front to -get- the materials first so you can half and half it, materials cost, photo then a 2nd invoice for your time and skill spent before sending? or invoice per progress made? Totally can't help there XD; sorz~ Can totally see how it'd be hard to figure out now haha ,_,

[borderdog.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I ask for a deposit which I can send an invoice for but not for other payments. The rest of the money is due when I finish the costume, but a lot of people like to send it a little at a time so they don't have to pay $900 or something at the end.

It's easy enough for me to keep track of - I don't ever have more than 3 or 4 people sending payments to me at one time so I know who they are from and just make a note on the info sheets I have for each person.
Maybe other fursuit makers are more strict with payments. I'd really like to send invoices, but I'm not sure how to make it work.