looking for advice on reposting art

[n.livejournal.com]

I was leafing through a few pages, and I haven't seen a post directly addressing this, but if their is one, I must have missed it.

Only recently, I have decided to take on commissions for a a meager price and someone had taken an interest in it. I was completely estatic, and I've just now completed the art. However, this commissioner paid me with an e-check, which will clear in a day or so now (from the original commission date).

Originally, I found this to be a problem, but after communicating with them we agreed thatI would not hand over the art until I saw the money in my paypal. So things had cleared up there.

Now as I finished their commissions, I went ahead and sent them a note, telling them that the work has been done and I'll be posting when I see the money. I also made a request that they not repost my art to their gallery.

Some people are fine with commissioners reposting their art so long as they get credit and linkbacks, but I'm not really comfortable nor okay with that. And eventually I got a reply back saying that it's simply 'what they do, because they have no artistic skill of their own and they commission art FOR their gallery.'

The way they've replied make me feel like they're going to disregard what I've asked and they're going to do it anyway.
The thing is, I have the art, I'm waiting on payment because they chose to pay me in a format that I have previously stated that I do not accept. Am I in any position to make this sort of request? And should my commissioner respect that?

I currently don't have a TOS, as I've only started out taking commissions and I don't feel like making a huge deal out of it, seeing as I'm asking for $3 at most for my art. I have one in the works, but for smaller commissions I don't feel like its necessary.

In addition to this, I've also sold a character to this same commissioner for a higher amount as it came with additional art pieces. The payment for that character has yet to go through as well (they paid in another e-check), and we made the same agreement about handing over the character's art that we did for the commission.

I've commissioned a few pieces for this character from several different artists (mostly off-FA).
And I don't feel right in letting them repost several of these pieces to their gallery as well, but as I didn't draw the art for several of them (some of the drawings of this character ARE my own), do I still have a right to tell them no?

I have yet to reply to their last note, and I'm looking for advice on what to do before I reply. I don't feel that it's necessary to make their name public as this situation is still civil between us, but should things take a turn for the worse, I will.

edit: after explaining myself and talking it out with the commissioner, we have reached an acceptable compromise for the both of us. thanks for the advice, i'll be sure to mark this up as a lesson learned for the future.

Comments

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

truth be told, and I'm going to be perfectly honest; if I commissioned an artist, who had no terms of service and made no mention as to their feelings regarding their work being reposted and was told after the transaction, I'd be pretty annoyed. no, make that really annoyed.

I suppose you could look at it in this regard; what is the overall point in paying someone for art of your own characters if you're unable to share it and show other people?

I'm not saying you're wrong in your feelings, but if you ultimately are not comfortable with people reposting and sharing the art they commission, into their own galleries, even with credit, then you probably shouldn't be getting involved in the commission business.

most people out there, don't buy art because it not only makes them feel good, but because they enjoy sharing and showing off the various interpretations of their characters and/or ideas. you might want to think of it this way; you pay someone to make you a painting for your wall, and when you get the work, you're excited, you're happy- but then you're told that it cannot be displayed and must be kept in a box while the artist themselves are free to show off the work and your ideas.

[blackberrypie.livejournal.com]

I kinda have to agree with this. I know my heart sinks when someone says I can't post their picture anywhere even with credit. I mean I wouldn't even mind if they had a huge watermark with their website address on it. Just being able to show off what I got means a lot to me.

And I personally love when people enjoy something I did for them so much that they post it and show it to all their friends. I've actually gotten a bit of business from that! :D

[p3nsive.livejournal.com]

Yeah, seconding this.

[four-calamities.livejournal.com]

If you didn't inform the client prior to the money exchanging hands that you didn't want them to be reposting the work, then that's pretty unfair for them, as most people do assume that it's perfectly fine to share what an artist has done for them if nothing is mentioned from the beginning.

While I won't say that commissioning might not be the right thing for you if you don't want people to share what you've custom made for them (them sharing does result in greater business), but if it is something that truly bothers you, you may want to reconsider. The art will likely be shared one way or another. But is does seem one-sided to not allow your customer to showcase your handywork while allowing yourself to display it as you please (I'm assuming that you're uploading your commissions to your own gallery).

If reposting is something that truly bothers you, either make a TOS or flat out inform every customer you take that you don't want them to do this. Telling them after the money is spent and the work is done is unfair to them, as for many, it can be a deal-breaker for whether to commission someone or not.

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

I'm a bit confused on the last part. You didn't draw the commission or the commission was of a character you personally own?
If the latter, then yes i would say you have a right to disallow art (commission or otherwise) of your personal characters to be posted elsewhere. But if this is just a run of the mill commission of the buyer's characters i would say no.

Echoing what's already been said, most commissioners buy art to add to their personal collection. How they display that collection varies from an online gallery, to a website, to a personal folder they keep locked away on their computer. It's a little hard, not to mention disheartening, for someone who buys art for that purpose to learn after the fact that they can't post it.

I would write up a ToS, even for the small stuff. It doesn't just provide you and your commissioners with protection but it can also be a good way for you to say everything about how your process works without repeating yourself or disappointing someone just as money changes hands.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

saaame here. it's just. fun to show off and share the awesome art you've just received and to direct more attention towards that artist.

I hate to sound like I'm jumping all over the OP about this, but... commissions are really not the place to be overly paranoid about art theft. one, you're kindasorta ruining the whole experience for the commissioner, and two, you're reeeaaaaally closing the door on an excellent form of business advertising.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

If I were in your position at the moment, I'd either let them post it, or refund them their money. For future business, you need to inform them upfront that you do not want them to post art in their galleries.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

For the last part, from what it seems is they sold a character design to the person that commissioned them. They had a lot of art of that character they commissioned from other artists, that went with that design. The Artist/Seller does not want some of those images reposted in the other person's gallery.

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

In that case i wouldn't think those commissioned images would even be an issue. The OP sold the design, not the commissioned works the OP bought.

[ginkaruja.livejournal.com]

Further more, commissions in fandoms is a bit different than the commissions for portraits and pieces in the 'normal' art community. Most furs show their work off to other furs and there's many who keep it online and in folders, where someone who commissions a piece of their pet is most certainly going to hang it on their walls for company, or those who commission a painting of a landscape to decorate their place of business. Not to say that some of the fandom people don't post art on their walls for even 'non-fandom' company to see, I just don't think it's the common intent.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

Let me get this straight.

In that last bit about having sold your character to him you mention having commissioned art in your gallery of the character.

So it's okay for you to put art you commissioned in your gallery but it's not okay for someone else to put art commissioned from you in theirs? That doesn't seem particularly fair.

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

In which case, shouldn't Buyer ask the original artists who OP commissioned if it would be okay - explaining the sale of the character?

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with this. <3

[shiftergoddess.livejournal.com]

Possibly, but as the OP is the one who spent the money i'm not sure. But i'm curious to know why the OP sold ALL the images of said character design.
Why not just remove the previous images from your gallery. :|

[eveshka.livejournal.com]

Here's a theoretical as to why you might wish to rethink your stance.

I commission you for some art and when I get it, I'm ecstatic. I love it. I post it in my galleries, on my FB and my LJ and generally make a scene about how awesome this art is and how you are the next great fanart artist.

My friends get so caught up in my enthusiasm that they commission you because I liked your art of my character enough to share it.

Word of mouth is a powerful form of advertisement and by denying your customers the ability to advertise on your behalf, you might be denying yourself some new customers.

[n.livejournal.com]

I've never posted commissions that I've gotten from other artists to my own personal galleries.

[fiawol.livejournal.com]

Ditto the above comments. People who commission art are generally not artists themselves, so the only artwork they CAN post is what they have commissioned. Set rules that the artwork should be displayed with a watermark/signature of your website/gallery (which is acceptable to most commissioners), but if you decide that they cannot ever show off their commission you drew for them, you MUST have that spelled out before you take any money from them (and even then you may be on shaky legal ground if the commission is of a character created by the commissioner). Posting commissions is all we collectors can do, let us get our one thrill out of getting artwork from artists we like by showing it off to others.

[skulldog.livejournal.com]

Couldn't say this better myself.

As both an artist that does commissions, and commissions a ton of art myself, knowing up front what I can and can't do with art is key for who I commission. If I can't share my art in some form, that lessen my desire to buy from an artist, and likewise I give free rein to those that pay me, with what they wish to do with reposting the art I do for them.

[n.livejournal.com]

Technically, no money has been exchanged AT ALL.
And there won't be an actual exchange for another two days, so all that sits in my paypal are the notices that the payment won't clear until dates xx and xx.

I felt like I was in the right to make that sort of request because I haven't been physically paid.

And I've always been a bit uncomfortable with my art being reposted as I've had some unfavorable results come of it in the past.

[n.livejournal.com]

I'm a tad confused by this comment.
I've made no claims to have included art that was not my own in my own personal gallery.

And whenever a design is sold, I like to include all the pieces I've gotten for said design.

What would be the point of me selling an old character, yet keeping all of it's art to myself? It would be pointless to not give it to the person who's agreed to buy it.

[n.livejournal.com]

In my past experience with commissions, or rather just letting someone add on to my own, personal works, I've never had this happen.

I got the opposite reaction, in which the individual who either commissioned me or colored in an old piece with permission and credit, ended up getting all the praise and I didn't get anything out of it beyond simply being the original artist.

Which is what has influenced me in taking this stance against any art being reposted.

[justblieve.livejournal.com]

Same here!

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Technically you own the art and have the right to say who makes copies (even digital copies) and where they go, unless you sold the rights (which I don't believe you did)
That being said, if you're adamant you don't want people reposting your art, tell them this up front. I would even recommend against putting it in a TOS and assuming people read it - tell everyone specifically and make sure they agree. I say this because people may be commissioning art mostly because they like putting it in their gallery (as the person above) and most artists don't mind it.
I'd urge you to reconsider your stance as it can be good publicity and I'm really not sure what bad things can come of it, but it's up to you.

As to the second part of your question, I'm confused? If you don't repost people's art how does the commissioner even know about these other images?
Again technically no you can't give them to the commissioner if they're by other artists and you don't have the copyright; commissioner is free to ask the artists if it's okay though.

[n.livejournal.com]

I'm not even paranoid about art theft.
That's the least of my troubles since I'm not a fantabulous popfur (and I don't think I ever will be)

I've just never gotten these great results everyone has been trying to shed light on for me.
And not everyone reposts! I've commissioned several pieces of art myself, but I've never felt the need to just show it off like that by taking it and slapping it onto any of my galleries.

I feel a Favorite from the commissioner and a grateful comment does just a good a job as reposting does.

[four-calamities.livejournal.com]

You're missing my point a little - the transaction was still made, it doesn't matter if the money has hit your Paypal yet. You didn't inform your customer before the cheque was sent or the work began, but after. That's mostly what I'm getting at. If the customer is truly unhappy with this then they have wasted both potential money and time paying for and waiting on this commission from you, and you have potentially wasted time and resources in making it if they demand a refund.

You are in the right to ask, but it's best to ask before the transaction even starts. It's just bad policy to do that, and could possibly lead to bad press for your business, as like I mentioned, it can be a deal-breaker for many.

If it is something that bothers you so much, then the business of selling art to others is probably not the one for you. People will share in one way or another, whether by email, IM, or some other means. If they are uploaded even just to Photobucket or a private site, it can still be Googled directly or indirectly.