Accident and delayed commission?

[89jessica.livejournal.com]

Hello, back in March I commissioned a partial costume off of someone.

This was to cost $300 and was paid in full. I saw two pictures of the work in progress in late march/early april.

3 months later without contact I get an email from her family saying she has been in a car accident and was in a coma/recovery for a total of 3 months. She then personally emails me, apologizes, and promises to continue work on the costume ASAP. This is fine with me, as obviously health>commissions and that only makes sense!

That was late June and now almost 4 months later I have not heard another word.

I have the full name of one of her family members and the state (US) she is in, allowing for (possible) phone contact. She has not personally given me a phone number so I feel creepy, but the internet gave me this information.

What do I do? I have tried contacting her through facebook and email.


Thanks,

Jessica

Comments

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'd call her phone number. You paid $300, that's money out of your pocket.

[chicago-lollie.livejournal.com]

No, do not call. Even if you were able to find that information on the internet, since she didn't provide that phone number personally, it really does seem like you'd be stepping over the line.

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

Doesn't matter, she owes $300 or the product. Stealing is inappropriate.

(frozen)

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

This coming from someone who "dox" people just because they have murrsuits. It's not OK, IK.

(frozen)

[insane-kangaroo.livejournal.com]

Trolling is against the rules, please re-read them.

http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/profile

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Freezing this thread, let's not get into this kinda thing here.

[chicago-lollie.livejournal.com]

It is not okay to call the artist about that commission, if that phone number wasn't provided by the artist or a friend/family member.

Also, you're making large assumptions about the artist. This is not an instant-proven case of "Artist has run off with your money."

[skirtandzy.livejournal.com]

Except this is not outright theft.
There are circumstances that have to be taken into consideration in cases like this. For all they know, they person could have had a relapse of some sort, thus leaving them unable to respond, and the family member in no state to contact someone for something like a fursuit.

Calling someone out of the blue and saying "Where is my money?" is completely innapropriate.


Look below, at what Taasla suggested. Going through a neutral, relevant third party is a better method of dealing with a situation like this.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I disagree entirely - No. Do not call this number. They did not personally give you this contact, and the family member may not have any information on this transaction.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Ooh, this is sticky. I find it weird that a family member would contact you out of the blue, unless she asked them to. Personally, if I was in some sort of situation where I would be offline for a long while, I would ask someone I knew in the fandom to send out a message.

I don't think it's a good idea to call this number. The person on the other end may not be the person you're looking for, and I think they would be weirded out getting a call from a random person on the internet.

If anything, I would mention their name as a lost contact to see if anyone knows more info.

[kikai-saigono.livejournal.com]

This is what I would do. Feels a little too soon to be calling a number where you may or may not actually be able to get in touch with her... Yeah, it's kind of sticky. I would ask around and see if maybe she fell ill again?

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Yeup, I'd imagine that if they were at least a know builder that someone would know them personally. The person doesn't have to give the builder's life story as to what's been going on, but at least some insight for the OP so they can plan appropriately.

[skirtandzy.livejournal.com]

This is some wonderful advice.

(I may actually use this advice myself)

[taelifoe.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with this. I would NOT call that number you found. I know from personal experience that when random people start calling you thanks to information they found on the internet (which you probably didn't want there in the first place) it can be very annoying.

[ocelotish]

Now I might have a friend or my sister contact commissioners in the case of real life emergency just because a fandom friend might not know what's going on.

I don't think it's a good idea to call the number either, just because someone who has been really beaten up in an accident might not be in the best shape to go on the computer that much. What I would advise doing is asking her if there's an easier way to contact her. The missing contact post might not be a bad idea either.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

I personally would want a friend of mine to contact commissioner's individually if need be. I understand that not everyone has the luxury of that. From the way the OP is worded it makes it sound like they got an email from the family member and then directly after the artist contacted them. Without knowing if the artist told the OP that they had their family contact them, "odd" is the only word I have for it.

TBH, it makes me wonder if the artist didn't make it up to excuse the long absence, but I feel bad for jumping to that conclusion. Listing them as a lost contact could at least get someone they know here to verify if there was an accident and if the artist is ok or not.

[koisnake.livejournal.com]

Oh man. I had this happen to me once. A commissioner randomly called me one day (thank God they were chill) but it was extremely awkward and highly uncomfortable. The worse part is that I never gave out my number on the internet, so this person found out my number for God knows how. The person spoke to my mother first and used my SCREEN NAME 'Koisnake' and it was very weird.

Case in point, I agree. Imagine if YOU were the person being called upon, like what happened to me. Yes, the situation was solved and is now history, but it still sends chivers down my spine.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That is incredibly scary, especially since you don't know what else someone can find. :c

[koisnake.livejournal.com]

It's creepy since I believe the client was able to get a hold of my number by digging for organizations/clubs I was in.. I was in high school at the time. The organization must have given this 'total stranger' my number. Basically, he called the organization to get my digits. Scary stuff.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is iffy by contacting commissioners by ungiven means.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I was called twice by a customer who was quite mentally challenged (And I mean this in no disrespect) and made wild threats and somehow called Paypal and managed to get my number from them.

It was a scary moment, since he kept calling back. This was long after a commission was done @_@ ahhh.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, that is scary. I forgot that Paypal will give out your number if a customer claims they need to get a hold of you.

[mactonight.livejournal.com]

I've had the same thing happen to me when I was 15. I was doing a fursuit-for-items trade with someone and they somehow managed to find my phone number. I have a fear of speaking on the phone, so it was terrible.

[laurenashleyart.livejournal.com]

God I love your icon, by the way. Also have a slight fear of speaking on phones, I can only imagine how awful that must have been, I'm sorry :(

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Man I hate these situations. It always screams "scam" to me though maybe sooner or later (maybe right here) it will be for real and I'll look like a butt.

What about these family members who emailed you? No luck getting a response from them?

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Personally I'd say, do not call that phone number until it becomes something of a last resort. First, document everything you do. Screenshots, e-mails, IM logs, maybe even a little pen and paper to keep yourself organized. (i.e.: "2011-10-22 7:32pm - image1.jpg - First e-mail sent.") If you haven't tried contacting the artist via online methods yet, that should be your first choice. Drop an e-mail, maybe a couple e-mails, asking her for some kind of reply within a reasonable timeframe. (~7-14 days?)

If she doesn't respond, then it's time to take things a bit more public. If she has any public profile pages on the web (LJ, DA, Facebook, Twitter), leave notes in public places stating that you are a commissioner trying to re-establish contact with this artist -- even if she doesn't respond personally, with any luck another commissioner or a family member who knows the situation might pass word along to the artist and get her to reply.

After ~7 days of that, if the artist still doesn't respond... use your discretion. If you paid via Paypal, you may want to drop a line with them, explain your situation with them regarding your payment on xx/xx/2011, and ask for the artist's contact information. The worst they can do is say no, but with any luck (as noted in above comments) you might be able to get the artist's direct phone #, rather than a family member's phone #.

If you do call the artist... it will be an awkward conversation. Try to prepare for it as best as you can. Do not call with the intent to argue, and watch your tone -- sure you're frustrated, but arguing or talking with an exasperated or accusatory tone won't help much; it's already off-putting enough that you're talking directly to the artist. Be constructive: "Hello, I'm soandso, I commissioned you on the xxth of mmmmm this year, and I've been trying to reestablish contact with you for weeks/months." If the conversation allows, ask how she's handling herself after her accident. It might end up being a one-minute conversation where she'll apologize profusely and promise to e-mail you immediately, or it could be a multi-hour heart-to-heart -- set aside ample time for it. She might even refund your money here if she realizes she won't be able to finish the commission.

On the other hand, she might never answer her phone, or her # might no longer be in service. If it's the latter, contact Paypal and let them know so they can require the artist to update their records. Otherwise, only when direct phone contact isn't possible is when I'd consider calling the family member.

Finally, if the family is unwilling to help (totally reasonable of them not to), if the artist ever hangs up on you, or if the artist doesn't contact you within about a week, then it's time to get not-so-nice with the artist. Drop an e-mail to her warning her that her inaction is forcing you to take more drastic action against her, including an Artists_Beware post. Begin preparing your documentation and your A_B post in Notepad ahead of time, but don't submit it until about 24-48 hours after the e-mail was sent, as the warning itself might spur her into action. However, don't let empty words prevent the posting -- this is ultimately a stall tactic. The ONLY thing that should prevent the posting at this point are end results, such as the finished product being shipped and a valid tracking number in your inbox, or your money being refunded. (Truth be told, if it's come down to these final 24-48 hours, it might be worthy of a beware post anyway. Use your discretion.)

Once it's posted, send her the link so she'll a.) know you aren't bluffing, and b.) have a fair chance to represent herself. Begin considering the possibility of small claims court to get your money back, though don't take definite action for at least a week after the post. Still, if you have any lawyer friends, run the situation by 'em and see what they say.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Also, I know at one point people used to recommending chargebacks against Paypal -- I say DON'T. If you've given them access to your bank account, if a chargeback is even possible, I imagine Paypal will just yank the funds out of your bank account to cover the chargeback. If they don't have bank account access, I imagine two things will happen after a successful chargeback: 1.) your Paypal account will be frozen until the balance is paid or closed indefinitely; 2.) if Paypal itself doesn't start calling you to collect your debt, they'll hire a collections agency to do it instead. You don't want to deal with this headache, and your fight isn't with Paypal anyway, no matter how unfair their 45-day policies are.

Can't guarantee that this advice will work one way or another, but it's what I'd probably do. Whatever happens, good luck!

[taasla.livejournal.com]

A chargeback, if possible, would be issued to the artist's paypal plus fees. From the whole Candywolfie fiasco, artists were out double what Candywolfie had originally sent to them due to the chargebacks + fees.

Personally, if the OP has the option, I would consider a chargeback as a last resort.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Ahh, okay. I'll take your word for it, as I haven't used Paypal in years. ;)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

? You're saying a credit card chargeback will come out of the Payee's paypal, not the one who accepted the money?
I don't think that's true, it would come out of the paypal account of the one who accepted the money.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

I've never tried it myself. To be honest, I haven't used Paypal in years. I suppose it depends on how automated Paypal's system is set up. If it is true that Paypal account balances can go into the negative, as mentioned by Holly Massey [NSFW language] (http://flamingmoes.livejournal.com/164468.html) in regard to this AB post (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/520985.html), then a credit card chargeback vs. Paypal would either result in a negative account balance on your part, or the money automatically being pulled from the artist's account by Paypal.

If Holly's claim was true and her account went into the negative, then I can only guess how Paypal would handle a credit card chargeback against them. I've never done it, and I haven't read any after-the-fact stories from people who've done it themselves. (Then again, I'm relatively new to AB myself. ;) I just know that nobody wants a debt collector hounding 'em.

To be fair, in Holly's situation the dispute against her was performed within Paypal's 45-day window... and I do have doubts about her sincerity. (If she reads this, I mean no offense -- I'm something of a skeptic, and I can only form an opinion based on information that's publicly available.)

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Mostly what I know is that CCs can be much more aggressive than Paypal about recovering money, and for a longer period of time, though there's still a time limit. I think the longest I read about was 6 months?
I have heard of people getting their money back that way but I don't know much about where the money comes from and what other fees are added on. An artist here who had a wrongful chargeback says they were charged twice, and I admit I'm not sure why that would be, although I'm not saying they are lying... just not sure that that's what's supposed to happen.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Typically there are fees and such that come with a chargeback, I am not surprised that the amount being takena from themthe could end up being doubled due to that.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, I was reading up on it. It "makes sense" that the extra amount was a chargeback fee, rather than a "double chargeback".

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Blargh my phone and damn autoincorrect that likes to randomly insert words

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Paypal limits your account and locks it if the amount isn't paid. I'm not sure what happens if you refuse to pay it after. I paid mine promptly, as mine was a simple mistake, but it was scary to see -(amount of money) and various emails from Paypal about how my account is limited and unable to be used until the amount is paid.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

I just wanted to confirm that paypal CAN go into negatives. I've had this happen by mistake, A friend accidentally disputed a payment, forgetting that it was my paypal lol.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Aha, okay. Good to know, but it sucks that happened to you though!

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

D: Sorry that happened to you!

I just wanted to check my understanding - if paypal is negative, you can still receive money, just not send any out (because there is nothing to send), right?

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

Yes, you can still receive money.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

A coma can sometimes mean brain trauma, specially with vehicle accidents, which means that even if the artist wakes up, they need rehab and their motor skills are just simply not there, sometimes they just never come back.

A coworker was involved in a motorcycle accident and was in a coma for more than a month; now, he walks wobbly, has slurred speech and his hand dexterity is just not there.

I hate to say this, but while its mega-creepy to call the commissioner directly... if the commissioner, despite best intentions, is physically unable to complete the paid work, then you should indeed ask for the money back, of course, the risk would be that you could be seen as an evil person for taking money back from a incapacitated person, if that really is the case.

G'luck with that this, this one is really a sticky one.

[hellfire99x.livejournal.com]

Yeah... if the accident and the coma really happened, it really is a sticky situation. :/ The advice I gave above pretty much assumes that the accident & coma didn't happen, or if it did that there hasn't been any proof of it.

I suppose the phone calls will answer that question, one way or another...

[raai.livejournal.com]

It says that the artist did already wake up and was working on the fursuit again.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

Oops, sometimes I read too fast that I end up missing little details... disregard that.

[skirtandzy.livejournal.com]

Well, it says that they promised to return to work on it, but not specifically if they did begin work on it again.

Also, Family Member Number might not be right

[snobahr.livejournal.com]

There are three people in my neighborhood who share the same name. One of them apparently is buried in debt, so the creditors and collection agencies call everyone in the city with that person's name. The debtor was born in 1955. The man with the same name at my house was born in 1922 (and passed away in 2009). The two men are otherwise unrelated, but we continue getting the debtor's creditors on the phone, which is three kinds of annoying.