Beware: West

[xreklaw.livejournal.com]

WHO: West, Westfalen.

WHERE: Furaffinity, Inkbunny, Livestream

WHAT: A chemisty / Periodic Table icon.

WHEN: November 22, 2011 - November 26, 2011

PROOF: Paypal receipt (with West's real name hidden) - http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/269/reklawiconproofreceipt.png

EXPLAIN: This really is nothing major, and in the end I'm just posting it as a warning to the community. On November 22 I commissioned West to do one of the Periodic Table icons he was advertising so heavily in places like FA and Teenycom.

Communication went alright, and then suddenly last night (November 26) I'm noted about some chat logs that showed up on a public livestream while West was working on my icon. I'm putting it behind a cut because long chat log is long and has lots of crude and pretty offensive language. The bolded parts are done by me to highlight the more important bits.

9:57 PM: westfalen: because, for fucking fuck's sake, I've already done like, two of these, and this is fuckface number three to have the same goddamn character design

9:57 PM: westfalen: because it's soooo original

9:57 PM: westfalen: jesus fucking cockfucking christ

9:58 PM: westfalen: if this keeps up I am seriously just going to lay down line white lines of mockitude until these fucker snort them up and love it

9:58 PM: Defenbaugh: Wassup

9:58 PM: Defenbaugh: Besides wolf rascism :)

9:58 PM: Defenbaugh: err speciesism

9:58 PM: westfalen: I feel sorry for the mothers of these pathetic man-children for the shame they must feel for having borne these sad space-wasting wastes of space into the world

9:59 PM: westfalen: fuck you, generic grey fox with long black generic hair

9:59 PM: westfalen: fuckkkkkk

9:59 PM: westfalen: youuuuu

9:59 PM: RedApeGuy: Yikes!: lol

9:59 PM: westfalen: *pants*

9:59 PM: LinkinArt: haha

9:59 PM: westfalen: sorry. I go into rages sometimes.

9:59 PM: Defenbaugh: Must be a guy thing? :)

9:59 PM: westfalen: hi, Linkin! welcome to the stream!

10:00 PM: LinkinArt: thanks :)

10:00 PM: bostitch: livestream needs a screencap option: :P

10:00 PM: westfalen: it's people like this that are slowly making me hate the fandom

10:00 PM: Defenbaugh: Which?

10:00 PM: westfalen: this grey fox black-haired boring fucker right here

10:00 PM: RedApeGuy: People who's characters all look like copies of each other

10:00 PM: Defenbaugh: snicker

10:00 PM: LinkinArt: Hair on furries gets annoying

10:00 PM: westfalen: hate them so much

10:01 PM: Kardi: I like hair, when done well. :)

10:01 PM: westfalen: hate

10:01 PM: Defenbaugh: Well Im a blakc wolf.. no hair..

10:01 PM: bostitch: But they are all beautiful and unique snowflakes!

10:01 PM: bostitch: Bwahahaha

10:01 PM: Defenbaugh: ..>

10:01 PM: Defenbaugh: >.> -cries-

10:01 PM: westfalen: it's like, jesus christ, assfucker, I bet you wear a fursuit and then dress up like Sephiroth when you go to cons, you fatfaced ugly bogfuck

10:01 PM: Kardi: But I do say... there we go. XD Then again, there's a whoole lotta blond haired blue eyed people. :)

10:01 PM: Defenbaugh: West has Rabies...

10:02 PM: Kardi: West is in the gee-my-cold-medicine is trumping me tonight mood. ;)

10:02 PM: RedApeGuy: When I was thinking of my character, I thought, I can make a character that looks like me or one that takes elements of animals I like

10:02 PM: Defenbaugh: -gets the rifle-

10:02 PM: RedApeGuy: The thing about an animal that looks like me is that it would have to be a skinny red fox.: And there are like 1929209812903 of those

10:02 PM: Defenbaugh: AHAHAHAHAHAHA

10:02 PM: Kardi: *sniff* It's okay, pa,. I'll do it, he's my dog...

10:02 PM: Defenbaugh: -dies laughing-

10:03 PM: LinkinArt: haha

10:03 PM: westfalen: THATS WHAT I THINK OF YOUR LAMEASS CHARACTER, REKLAW

10:03 PM: RedApeGuy: Oh my god, I just looked up at the screen

10:03 PM: RedApeGuy: hahahahaha

10:03 PM: westfalen: I HOPE YOU LOSE YOUR SCROTUM IN THE WAR

10:03 PM: RedApeGuy: I was wondering why everyone was dying

10:03 PM: westfalen: *pants*

10:03 PM: Defenbaugh: -gives West some oxygen-

10:03 PM: Kardi: *eyes it* Sadly, I don't think THAT icon is allowed on FA.

10:03 PM: LinkinArt: I'm choking here dammit

10:03 PM: westfalen: sorry. Kinda losing my shit here tonite.

10:03 PM: Defenbaugh: Used to be
10:04 PM: westfalen: actually, you know what

10:04 PM: westfalen: watch me pull the dickest move imaginable

.10:05 PM: Defenbaugh: LOl did you just copy paste one of the other wolves?

10:06 PM: Defenbaugh: You are heartless

10:06 PM: bostitch: man that was awesome :D

10:06 PM: Defenbaugh: Someone will notice

10:06 PM: Defenbaugh: and SAY OMG TRACER!

10:06 PM: Kardi: I notice... I think West is just being a smartass tonight. ;)

10:06 PM: Defenbaugh: Apparently

10:06 PM: westfalen: I totally did that

10:06 PM: LinkinArt: Haha tracer of his own work

10:06 PM: westfalen: traced my own work, yep

10:06 PM: Defenbaugh: I endorse smartassedness

10:07 PM: RedApeGuy: Hahah, I wonder if anyone'll notice

10:07 PM: Defenbaugh: I wonder if I could get West to draw boobs in this mood

10:07 PM: westfalen: unimaginative shitfucking cockschlepping assmongering slapcunt

10:10 PM: RedApeGuy: Hopefully no more grey colored black haired wolves.

10:11 PM: Defenbaugh: How about black greyhaired colored wolves?

10:11 PM: RedApeGuy: What.... I... don't get it.

10:11 PM: Defenbaugh: Blakc wolves, with greyheadhair :p

10:12 PM: westfalen: let's rant shamelessly about BLACK WOLVES

10:12 PM: westfalen: WHO THE FUCK DO THEY THINK THEY ARE

10:12 PM: Defenbaugh: NOOOOO

10:12 PM: westfalen: BEING BLACK ALL THE TIME

10:12 PM: westfalen: AND WOLFY

10:12 PM: westfalen: AND BLACK WOLFING LIKE SOME KINDA BLACK WOLF

10:12 PM: Defenbaugh: -represents-

10:13 PM: LinkinArt: Is that racist against black wolves?

10:13 PM: westfalen: totally speciesist

10:13 PM: Defenbaugh: I got a little white wolf in me, and its squirming.

10:13 PM: Defenbaugh: -drum hits-

10:13 PM: RedApeGuy: =P

10:13 PM: westfalen: I think there's a cream for that, Deef.

10:13 PM: Defenbaugh: :)

10:14 PM: Defenbaugh: "I coul dbe more crass but Im scared of West

10:15 PM: westfalen: hahahha

10:15 PM: Grafsburg: Oh wow.

10:15 PM: westfalen: where the hell is Enydimon

10:15 PM: westfalen: I need to thank him profusely

10:15 PM: westfalen: for not shoving his character's bare junk in my face the second I click that link

10:16 PM: Defenbaugh: lul

10:16 PM: bostitch: Is that a maple leaf?

10:16 PM: westfalen: screw that, I'm going to email him and thank him profusely

10:16 PM: westfalen: that's totally a maple leaf

10:16 PM: Defenbaugh: Treasure trail

10:16 PM: Grafsburg: I actually kind of thought you were a decent artist West. But really? Re-using old art for something someone paid for?

10:16 PM: Grafsburg: That's pretty cold.

10:17 PM: westfalen: Grafs, you're a nice kid, but I know where you live

10:17 PM: Defenbaugh: lol

10:17 PM: Grafsburg: Yeah yeah yeah.

10:17 PM: Grafsburg: Whatever.

10:17 PM: Grafsburg: Hope you don't mind them finding out about this by the way.

10:18 PM: westfalen: go nuts, kid. I hope being a shameless tattle tale makes you feel better about yourself.

Some timestamps are missing because these are bits and pieces of others' chatlogs.

10:18 PM: Earwig: haha what the fuck tacky shit am I hearing

10:18 PM: Grafsburg: Shameless?

10:18 PM: westfalen: what the, holy shit. ANOTHER GREY WOLF WITH BLACK HAIR

10:18 PM: westfalen: I'M GOING TO FUCKING VOMIT, SRSLY

10:19 PM: Defenbaugh: -pats West- :/

10:19 PM: Defenbaugh: With a gotee

10:19 PM: westfalen: who the fuck do I have to stab to make the hurting stop

Earwig: Cil try to have some tact, it's not charming. Some people have doofy characters but you're going to hurt your reputation by being snotty/insulting

westfalen: whoa, Sare! where'd you come from?

Earwig: Internet

westfalen: arite. So, whaddya want me to do, Sare?

10:19 PM: Earwig: S'fine to bitch but keeping it in IM etc is best.

10:20 PM: westfalen: s'what I'm doing

10:20 PM: Earwig: Ranting is something we all gotta do, but this is in a public stream where your customers/fans see it

10:21 PM: westfalen: oh right, difference between public stream and IM, gotcha

10:21 PM: Earwig: They're giving you money so returning a level of respect back to them is the right thing to do

10:21 PM: westfalen: fine, fine. I'll return his five dollars.

10:21 PM: Earwig: Sometimes it's hard as hell, but on something like a basic aesthetic choice it's crappy

10:21 PM: Earwig: I'd ask him first, since I'm not the customer

10:21 PM: Earwig: It's just personal opinion

10:22 PM: westfalen: I hope one day I meet this guy in person

10:22 PM: Earwig: Who?

10:22 PM: westfalen: so I can tell him personally how I feel

10:22 PM: westfalen: EXACTLY

10:22 PM: Earwig: Are you talking about the customer you're working for?

10:22 PM: Defenbaugh: I think West is givign them the money back.

10:22 PM: Earwig: But who is she giving money back to? Because the customer's not complaining so far as I know, so he doesn't want a refund I'd assume

10:23 PM: westfalen: so wait, what

10:23 PM: Earwig: I'm just giving my 2 cents re: business tact

10:23 PM: westfalen: are you friggin serious

10:23 PM: westfalen: you come in here just to lecture me?

10:23 PM: Defenbaugh: -whistles and wanders that a way- Its uncomfortable i here.

10:23 PM: Earwig: I sure did

10:23 PM: westfalen: I'll tolerate lecturing from my manager because I pay her, but srsly Sare, aren't you being hella presumptuous?

10:24 PM: westfalen: jesus! After I did you goddamn favour!

10:24 PM: Earwig: What favour?

10:24 PM: Earwig: The donation for the kitten?

10:24 PM: Earwig: That was amazingly kind of you

10:24 PM: westfalen: you'll stick up from stranger mcstrangeface and not for me?

10:24 PM: Kardi: Then here, have my lecture here in channel. :/ You need to put it down tonight.

10:24 PM: Earwig: This is a different situation

10:24 PM: Kardi: I never EVER lecture you in public.. EVER.

10:24 PM: westfalen: christ in a hammock!

10:24 PM: Kardi: Sigh...

10:25 PM: Earwig: presumption is when I don't know information and I just assume shit, which yeah I never do. But I saw how you're acting and it's definitely not presumptuous to say you're being rude and tactless.

10:25 PM: Earwig: And like I said I totally understand the ranting thing, I do it too

10:25 PM: Earwig: But I do it in private and I try to be fair

10:25 PM: Earwig: If these people were being shitheads to you I could understand it but it's not their fault they have similar designs back to back

10:25 PM: Kardi: You are so hopped up on cold meds you're snarly and grumpy and just in a mood and a quarter. :/

10:26 PM: westfalen: actually no, I'm not on cold meds right now

10:26 PM: westfalen: clear as a goddamn bell

10:26 PM: Earwig: Insulting them because of a very simple aesthetic choice in a place they can see it is just really... I dunno. I'm honestly surprised

10:26 PM: Kardi: ... well, then, you're in a mood and quarter. And also, I hope the kitten's doing okay. :)

10:26 PM: westfalen: hahaha oh my god I can't believe I'm hearing this

10:26 PM: Earwig: Yep, kitten is in a really nice place now and taken care of well

10:26 PM: Kardi: Cool. <3 That makes me happy. :)

10:27 PM: Earwig: I dunno why you're talking like this in a public place. It's your own noose you're tying, that's fine. I can't tell you how to run your business or how to portray yourself online

10:27 PM: westfalen: look, you two girls have fun talking kittens, ok, I'm sure you both have great cat stories to exchange

10:27 PM: Earwig: Are you drunk?

10:27 PM: Earwig: Like is this how you normally act? I'm just trying to be chill and explain what the hell you sound like

10:27 PM: westfalen: I apologize for all present for having to put up with this bullshit, I'm outtski, kids. Peace on earth.

So basically: West is tired of getting nothing but grey foxes with black hair to do icons of, and expresses this by making personal attacks against me and throwing personal insults at me as a person over a simple character design, in a public chat where absolutely anyone could see it. He even goes so far as to copy and paste another commissioner's icon to make minor edits to for mine with the intention of passing it off as fully-custom work like all of his other icons and just getting my character out of the way.

My icon, next to the icon West copied from: http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/4103/reklawiconprooficons.jpg

He took the icon he made for Escafanatic421, copied and pasted it, and made really minor edits to the character: Eyebrows, muzzle marking, and the clothing's removed. He also moved "my" character further out of the frame to try to make it either less obvious, or so he could do less work on it, or both. I'm not impressed.

When he gets called out for doing it so publicly, he proceeds to throw a fit and then leaves the channel.

To be fair, I did receive the full refund as shown in the receipt I linked- The message that came with it was a simple "I don't think I can do your character right now, sorry!" I haven't received any sort of apology from West for his behavior, but I think it's because he thinks I don't know what was said about me in the livestream.

While the personal attacks and this sort of behavior don't bother me too much, I'm posting this for anybody who may be considering commissioning West to beware of personal attacks and less than professional behavior if your characters happen to go against their idea of 'imaginative' character design.

--Edited the post to fix spacing, it was showing up as a weird block of text for me. Hopefully that's better!

Update: 11/28/2011

After just happening to run into West on livestream, I have severe doubts that this will ever be resolved.

No copy-pasting to be had. I recorded every snide remark with Fraps. http://youtu.be/SVtAx9Hdz2w

And Kathy had no idea this was going on, so leave her alone. Please.

Comments

[jakejynx.livejournal.com]

I'm glad this was posted here. Absolutely abhorrent behavior.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Agreed. A LiveStream is not a place you rant about customers in. Ever. 8|

[lemon-dip.livejournal.com]

I am shocked over this. I have not heard of this artist but still am shocked (as I have said elsewhere) Calling your commissioners names is uncalled for, and in PUBLIC? that was a stupid and immature move.

People should not attack personal characters because even if simple they still have personal attachments to them.
Maybe this artist was having a bad day, maybe not but publicly trashing your commissioners was not the thing to do, but to step away and do your work privately.

I am sorry you had to go through this, but I am happy you got your refund.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

And wishing them bodily harm, no less. There's no reason to be doing that.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Beyond the unwarranted behavior I find it really appalling that they copy/pasted someone else's image to make it yours instead of custom making it as advertised..

Well deserved beware. Wasn't watching them now, and most certainly won't be doing so in the future. Glad you got a refund.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

Wow. Just... wow.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Like I said when this was posted elsewhere, I am baffled why someone would act like this. If they don't like a character, then they are free to decline the commission.

I had sent them a note for one of their icons. They read it and never responded. I have since sent a note back to please cancel the spot.

There's no way I am handing over my money to someone with such poor behavior.

[ducttapeninja.livejournal.com]

^This, exactly. When I saw them advertising their chemistry icons over on teenycom, I was tempted to message them about them. Now I'm glad I didn't.

Then again, I'm thankful I don't really commission people outside of a small circle of artists I personally know and respect-- At least with them I don't run the risk of handy money over to people like this. :/

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

This is the ad in Teeny Com for the Chemistry icons. (http://teenycom.livejournal.com/1095052.html)

I do have the main body of the post itself capped just in case.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

... wow, those are some awesome icons.

Too bad my character thing is a generic gray fox... according to him, anyway. :(

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad you got your hands on the icon. Livestream is terrible to screencap.

I already bought one icon from her, and had plans to purchase another, but that's definitely not happening now. Even if the person being attacked isn't watching, that sort of behavior creates an extremely awkward/uncomfortable atmosphere. It'd be like trying to enjoy your meal in a restaurant while staff rants and raves about other customers.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

So disappointing. The icons were so cute and clever, and I was planning on getting one this next check. I hope this artist at least apologizes for his/her bad behavior.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Holy, shit.

[rhaenburger.livejournal.com]

Now I regret getting an icon from that asshole. Definitely unloading my icon from him from my FA. Not cool.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please refrain from name-calling.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Shockingly awful conduct. I can't even imagine why someone would speak so ill of their customers.

[allykat.livejournal.com]

Um. WOAH.

I really hope this one makes the rounds. Totally shocking.

[edge-chan.livejournal.com]

He still owns me the chemistry icon and after to see this, I don't even want it :/ I'll have to ask for the refund.

[copper-season.livejournal.com]

I read about this elsewhere and I'm so glad it was posted here.

His behavior is disgusting and when he went to say that he hoped you lost certain body parts? That went way over the line. I hope this person never gets any commissions ever again.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

That is ridiculously childish. I'm glad that Earwig stepped up and calmly explained they were being an ass, even if it didn't get through their head.

[shepherdwolf.livejournal.com]

i felt this way also...rather proud of the fandom that everybody didn't just suck up, a few people had the guts to point out what a stupid decision this was

[violetvirtue.livejournal.com]

I had gotten one of these icons from her (you can see it as an example in the teenycom post) and have since stopped using it as my avatar on FA. That's such terrible behavior. It's a shame because she was very nice when I commissioned her, but I'll be sure to avoid getting anything from her in the future.

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

I saw this on another community the other night and was utterly APPALLED at this artist's conduct. That is no way to treat a customer in a public setting, to wish them bodily harm and to make personal attacks and insults. Just because a person's character doesn't suit your fancy, it too generic, or anything else, doesn't give you the right to attack them. A lot of people have an attachment to their character even if they are just a simple design. I saw these icons and thought they were cute (never bothered to ask who did them) and I am glad I am not watching this artist and I never will at this point. I could only read the first second of the chat log an it just...baffled me. Then to not only attack you and then copy and paste art from another icon, let alone do it PUBLICLY on a livestream? Mind. Blown.

[amocin.livejournal.com]

It still baffles me that this happened at all.. I have many 'simple' character designs that I get from commissions. One for example is a white wolf with blue eyes... love it. Its easy, I dont have to alt tab a million times to check the ref, and I know I wont get their markings wrong to the point of having to do many edits to fix the problems. I like making my customers happy, and if they have a simple character, it makes my goal of making them happy on the first go easier. Even if it were a complex character, complaining in a public area is unprofessional.

The entire situation is just shocking, the threats, using every curse word in the book, and doing it in public. Glad you got your refund, and that this was able to show up here to warn others of such behavior.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yikes! Love it when folks insult people who give them business for NO REASON.

Also, let's see, "sparkle dogs" get made fun of a lot*, but "generic" characters are "boring and uncreative"... everyone needs to be unique and special but also not too bright or difficult...

Bah. Seems like drawing similar characters would just make the job easier. Er, without cut/pasting that is. Practice makes perfect :P

*I don't know if this artist would actually make fun of a sparkle character, but in general it seems sorta damned if you do/damned if you don't.

Well anyway, subject matter aside, thanks for the warning. Definitely someone to avoid.

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

That is absolutely terrible behavior from the artist. 8C Wow. Just WOW. Even if you don't like the character design, you should never EVER publicly bash it when you're being paid to draw it! That's just... ugh.

It's a shame, I really liked those icons too... But seeing this just puts a bad taste in my mouth.

[ocelotish]

I'm just going to second all of this. As a science nerd I was loving those, and might have bought one had I found the post, but certainly not anymore.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Whelp, she brought this one on on herself hard.

[clockworkshadow.livejournal.com]

OT but your icon ROCKS.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Hopefully word of this will spread far and wide and then those awful, awful paying customers can finally stop badgering the poor man.

[weredog.livejournal.com]

I nearly missed this drama entirely, but this single comment makes me glad I didn't.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

..I'm actually speechless [for once]
Jesus Christ.

[jakejynx.livejournal.com]

That's a feat! :)

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

I can't help but notice she says all this crap talking about gray and black characters when her own example is a generic gray and black tabby cat 8|

Either way this behavior is absolutely deplorable, and hopefully people will see this and refuse to support such. There's plenty of talented artists who would actually treat their customers with tact and respect, and love as many customers as this artists is getting.

[banrai.livejournal.com]

I am really glad I wasn't the only person that snerked at this. =)

[viothefoxbird.livejournal.com]

What the hell?