Advice: Teen artist - how should I go about taking commissions?

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Hello A_B!
Errrr, first ever LJ post here, correct me if I'm doing it wrong :3



Basically, I want to start taking commissions :3 But, lots of the posts here are about 'minors' buying/selling their art, and everything ending in tears and whatnot. Is it ok to take commissions at 15? Or should I wait 'til I'm older?
I know that research is important, and everyone says about having a ToS that you both agree to before you start sending money or anything, so if there's any problem on either side, you can throw it at the commissioner and run :3
Also, I know my art is not terrible. Its not wonderful either, but I know I'm improving and yes, I have done life drawing since I started GCSE Art. I could improve a lot on anatomy though, very very definitely. (curse you, silly anime phase.)
Also, would sending the money through my parents (they use paypal a lot for their bubble business) be a good idea?
And postage too. I would rather not send actual pictures in the post, but I'm sure badges would be ok.

So, any advice you have would be very very very much apreiciated <3

Comments

[vellacraptor.livejournal.com]

I'd just wait till your older.

If you must, have your parents act as your supervisors/managers/ect of sorts. You can't get a paypal unless you're 18 anyway (you're not supposed to at least) so you'd need them anyway.

The problem is with a minor, if trouble does happen, they can't be held accountable. So if your parents are willing to take responsibility for you, and you let people know ahead of time that they're making the deal with them as "co-signers" so to speak for you, it might work.

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

I had one when I was 16-17, and they never gave me any grief.. and I even supplied my real DOB and SSN. I also had a bank account and good standings with them. I just wasn't allowed to transfer more then.. $200? A year/month until I was 18. Then again I think at that point in time Paypal was so new they didn't have the same rules they do now.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

A ToS wouldn't matter because as a minor, you cannot be legally bound to contracts. This would make it very 'at their own risk' for someone to do business with you.

Using your parents' paypal is a bad idea for multiple reasons. If they run a business through it they're likely having to pay/file taxes on their transactions and you receiving money this way would muddy the waters. Also, in the event of a dispute, they would be the ones held accountable which may get you into trouble with them. Thirdly, and I'm not certain on this one so if I'm wrong I'd like someone to correct me, but minors are not allowed to have paypal accounts and if it became known that you were using their account that may put it in jeopardy.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

you receiving money this way would muddy the waters.

D'oh! Totally forgot to realize that myself. *adjusts comment!*

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Most people are hesitant to enter in any sort of business arrangement with a minor. Be they the artist or the buyer. Its just not safe and/or fair on their end if things go sour for the minor (they get 'tired of it', grounded, parents flip and cut the 'net, etc.).

While it is not uncommon for a minor commission artist to be successful - age is against you in this regard in a sense. In my opinion, I would wait until you are 18. Unless you are very open with your parents about it, they're okay with it and you using their PP account as well. Rules about what you'll accept as well - with the big given not being adult work.

Sorry, but I take back what I had said about discussing it with your folks. The financial risk for them is a little too high. So you are most definitely better off waiting until you are of legal age.

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Obviously no adult work, I can't stand it ^^
Thankyou for warning me about the financial risk, my parents are trying to find a bigger house to buy for all of us, and I would absolutely hate for them to get more stressed because of thing like that, thanks again <3

[fenrirs-child.livejournal.com]

First, from an objective position, I'd work a bit on verbal presentation. The emotes don't belong in a professional exchange, but I'll admit I'm guilty of it on occasion myself.

Second, you'd have to go through your parents' paypal, because legally people can't enter a contract with a minor. I think that for your sake and your commissioners, that would be the best way to go. Also, don't spend that money until you've delivered the product for the commissioner, just in case. It's not really 'yours' until you've finished your end of the deal anyways.

Third, price appropriately. Don't undersell yourself, but don't expect to make a killing right off the bat. There's a great community here on LJ called Teenycom that lets you advertise <$10 commissions there. It gets a ton of traffic and is well maintained, so it's a great place to start.

Fourth, build a portfolio of relevant work. People want to know you can follow their references and deliver a product they feel was worth their hard earned money.

Fifth, the phrase up there "having a ToS that you both agree to before you start sending money or anything, so if there's any problem on either side, you can throw it at the commissioner and run :3" sort of scares me a little. A TOS is there to protect both you and your customers, but they are not the end-all-be-all. There will undoubtedly be instances where things come up that aren't covered and you've got to be professional enough to work through them. That's what about half of the posts here are, things that slipped by the TOS and caused a problem (I've had my share too).

I'm not trying to discourage you, but realize that this has to be handled in a professional matter. It stops being a hobby once someone has paid, and you have an obligation to fulfill your end of the agreement. It should still be fun for you though, so don't take on more than you can handle and burn yourself out!

[breakspire.livejournal.com]

re: verbal presentation

also, the LJ cut of "Why you shouldn't ever let an angsty teenager near the computer when they really should be asleep." doesn't come across very professionally, and for some reason tells me more than the whole post that you aren't ready for commissions.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

You might be better off building a portfolio, and selling prints through DA (I think you can still do that as a minor? I'm not sure).

I'm sure you have a lot to deal with being 15, in high school, etc. anyways. xD It's only going to get more busy 'til you graduate, and then through college.

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

Unless your parents agree to work with you and be the responsible party for all your transactions, I would wait until you were 18. As a minor you cannot legally enter contracts alone; your parents would have to be your advocate in every transaction.

I would not advise using their paypal under any circumstances; your transactions should be by check/money order instead.

It is probably the better idea to wait until you are of legal age. Perhaps instead you could try art trades or handing out occasional gift art for practice.

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Are money orders safe?
And I definitely agree now with waiting until I'm older and doing trades instead, thankyou.

[cissa.livejournal.com]

Perhaps at this point you could start by doing trades, and both improve your skills and build a reliable reputation that way? Then, when you turn 18, you'll be in excellent shape to start commissions on your own legal responsibility.

Good luck!

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

I agree with this comment!

Trades or participating in exchange communities will get your art out there and noticed while also giving you practice drawing for other people. It's a really useful way to get the practice in, and you also benefit from getting art for yourself in return. :)

[fenris-lorsrai.livejournal.com]

Echoing the other people on don't take commissions yet as a minor due to the legal issues. Wait.

Beyond that, it depends on WHY you want to take commissions.

If you want additional spending money, see if there's some way you can incorporate working as an artist into the family business so parents can give you additional allowance that way. (designing labels, logos, whatever might work) This gives you some experience but in a more sheltered environment without all the legal entanglements.

If you're looking at commissions as a way to build portfolio and make you stretch on what you're doing, consider doing a structured internship for a local nonprofit that needs that sort of thing. For example, I did a bunch of headshots of animals for the local humane society, focusing on animals that had been in the shelter a loooooong time to try and drum up interest in those critters.

Go through your guidance department at school and tell them you're looking for that sort of experience where you'd be doing a structured internship. They should be able to find you a LEGIT one where you're actually building skills rather than just being free labor.

I have an intern at my business through school program and basically the way the law works out is the benefit should be to YOU. not to the business. If the business benefits more from your presence than you do from interning there OR displaces a paid worker, they should be paying you! If you're not learning, immediately complain to guidance department that you aren't interning, you're working!

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Wow. Thankyou for all the information about the internship, I'll definitely consider this. Is it the same as work experience? Last time I did W.E. was at an art gallery, but yeah, it didnt really involve much drawing.
I don't really knw if we have any sorts of thing around here, but we do have a sort of travelling vet, and they give treatment to pets and animals can't afford to pay for the vetat the surgery.
As soon as I finish the mock exams, I'll ask my art teacher, I'm sure she'll support it.
Thanks again!

[teacup-werewolf.livejournal.com]

I think everyone said what is important but to add two cents on this. I think it's important to note that doing business at any age takes a sizable amount of integrity, professionalism and responsibility. I personally think that you should wait until you're a bit older and ready for the responsibility of managing a business like selling art. Also it's important to be confident in your art. If you don't think it's good. People won't buy it.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

You said it way better than I could articulate. I don't think a teenager is ready to start what boils down to a business.

I honestly feel doing trades with other people is a good way to start and to understand how to handle the obligation of doing a service for payment.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I agree - please don't start taking them until you're a legal adult and can be legally responsible for your actions. I personally would not purchase from a commission artist should I know they were 15 years of age. The general consensus seems to be the same.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

I would recommend against taking commissions until your over 18. In the mean time I'd recommend participating in trades and trade communities like conbadges

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

Echoing what people here have said. Wait until your 18.


I started doing commissions when I was 17. I didn't have much of a ToS set up, and wasn't sure how to run my business. Plus I was juggling it with school, and it was hard to keep up with. It was very stressful for me, so I wouldn't recommend it for anyone to start young. Voice of experience talking here. XD; I wasn't really ready to handle commissions at 17, so I'd imagine at 15 it'd be even harder to handle.

Just build up your reputation and skills first. Do some trades with people, and it'll help bring people who may be interested in buying from you in the future. :)

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

And what would you say about what fenris lorsai said? Could that also be stressful?
Thankyou, very good to hear from someone who has experience like that, can't have been nice, and thanks for warning me.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

I would say practice your art and continue to improve yourself for now. See how much work you can get done in a month comfortably, maybe take trades as practice to be sure you can comfortably meet deadlines. If not trades, then even just set deadlines for yourself, such as "I'm going to get X amount of finished pieces done by this date" and then see if you can do it. Right now is an excellent time to practice and prepare yourself to work towards professional business practices.

Wait until you are an adult to take commissions. Legally speaking as a minor you cannot be held to legal binding contracts, which is exactly what you sign yourself up for with illustrative commissions.

[dingybatty.livejournal.com]

Everyone's got pretty good advice here, though I started taking commissions when I was 14, and have done so til now, and I'm 28! :) I was really wary when I started out, but after trial and error you kind of figure out what kinds of rules you need to come up with to keep things orderly and fair.

[dingybatty.livejournal.com]

that was also before people were using Paypal primarily, so I was just waiting on getting checks in the mail from people.

[mialattia.livejournal.com]

I won't say 'wait.' I say be professional, savvy and UP FRONT about your age. Be professional and don't be all like 'I'm just a teeeenager!' but make it clear that people will be paying through your parents' Paypal, and try to get every piece done BEFORE the dispute period is up so customers feel comfortable. I don't know about the legalities except that you can't enter into a contract.

I started taking commissions at 14 and am now 20! Parents' Paypal is how I rolled.

[kawaiipiepie.livejournal.com]

Or OP could ask for payment after completion. I don't usually like that method but it could work well for an underage person.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

At your age, if you don't hold up your end of the deal, you legally get off scot free, so I would personally never do business with an under aged person and many others will also refuse on those same grounds; nothing personal, it's just nice to have some legal recourse if things go tits up, or at the very least, not have people accuse you of bullying a child if you complain about a bad business transaction with someone who is under aged.

I suggest you just keep doing your own thing for now, maybe do some trades. It'll get you used to the mechanics of a commission; someone wants you to draw X and you have to try and satisfy them within a reasonable timespan, and you get something for it in return. But there's generally less pressure and stress.

That way you'll also work in your reputation a bit and have a bigger customer base by the time you do start taking commissions for pay.

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

I've seen it happen a lot of that cursed site deviantART, where people get commissioned, and then just procrastinate on it until the person who paid them for the art just gives up. And I absolutely would hate to do that to someone.
But trades until I'm old enough seems to be the best bet here :3

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

It's kinda of a personal thing. A lot of minors can't handle it. I started at 15 and haven't stopped since. There is things that I look back on and regret because of me being immature, but in general, I'm very happy I did it and having so much work to do helped improve my art.

I will say this though: Even if you want to be stubborn, try to listen to people and ask advice before blowing up at a commissioner. I'm not saying all minors are the same, but a big majority flip out too easily (hormones I guess?) and don't always think the right things. I had a temper and when I thought I was right, you couldn't argue. That was wrong, I should have been listening to others.

I started with my mom's paypal as well. I'd say just make sure you know how much is yours so there's no problems.

[collie-fluff.livejournal.com]

"I will say this though: Even if you want to be stubborn, try to listen to people and ask advice before blowing up at a commissioner. I'm not saying all minors are the same, but a big majority flip out too easily (hormones I guess?) and don't always think the right things. I had a temper and when I thought I was right, you couldn't argue. That was wrong, I should have been listening to others."

This is not only something you need to remember just for commissions, but for your entire life. You might not be the expert you think you are, and when more experienced people are telling you "Hey, you shouldn't do that" and they are all pretty much saying it, then it might be a good idea to stop, re-evaluate yourself and take a look from the outside.

I too was 15, and knew EVERYTHING. Eight years later I look back and see that I knew NOTHING.

Take the advice from others. There is a TON of it in this post.

[hezzywags.livejournal.com]

I'd wait. If you work hard to get your name out there with trades and a portfolio in general, by the time you're 18 not only will your skills have improved, but people would more than likely know your name (if you kept the same one--I highly recommend this) and you'd have more of a client pool.

And I'd like to reiterate what other people are saying..it's nothing against you personally! You very well may be the most responsible teenager in the entire universe, but the legal issues and possible complications involved with school/other work would make it very difficult for you to jump into commissions right off the bat.

Happy arting c:

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Yep, I've just left behind my old warriorcat username (cringe) so this one's what I really want to work under.
Thanks :3

[suzeyy.livejournal.com]

I started doing commissions when I was 15-16 but it wasn't for real money, like USD. Instead, I was active on a few SIM sites (still am!) that uses its own in-game currency (that can't be traded for USD) and banking system. I did commissions to build up reputation and gain experience. That way I wouldn't be out real money if something went wrong and the risk was reduced, but I still had to deliver the product. Social and in-game punishments if you scam, ect. Also I was dealing with people around my age as well as older (and sometimes younger) so the whole art buying/selling environment was just less.. "formal" then FA. I really learned a lot from doing this.

Mind you it takes a while to build up a base because there's a bit more trust building going on (depends on the community...) but I definitely suggest starting there instead of USD work. Idk how many people in this comm agree with me but I learned a lot from doing this.

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

I have thought about that with deviantART, but now that the staff don't really seem to have the time to sort out commission strifes using their dA points, so I'd rather not it specifically, but any other sites, whose staff you can trust, I would love to know about, thanks for your suggestion!

[synchra.livejournal.com]

I started taking commissions around that age. X3 Actually.. maybe younger. I am 25 now (wow now I feel old.) I used to only take checks because Paypal didn't exist yet! I also used to take it after I finished the art.. but that could be risky. :E I never got screwed over amazingly but times have sort of changed since then on the internet. My art wasn't all that great at that age. :P I think using your parents paypal and working with them might be helpful. I don't personally see a problem with someone your age taking commissions at all... but maybe I am biased! lol.

[synchra.livejournal.com]

hurf.. Okay didn't know there was a bunch of rules against using your parents paypal like i am reading about now.

I don't even think I was 18 when I started using paypal for commission work. :X I didn't know about all this stuff I am reading in the comments. So yeah... uh~~ ignore me! lol. I have bought art from people under 18 even within the last couple years myself so...? ::shrug:: I don't know if that was "wrong" but I personally didn't see a problem with it.

[rayiroth.livejournal.com]

I'd say start - but in a limited way. Start with family and friends, people who you know and are less likely to be caught into a massive internet based drama. Start small and you'll find a good way to manage yourself. Then once you are eighteen and you get your own Paypal, you would have this much business experience under your belt already.

A suggestion

[dennisthetiger.livejournal.com]

Practice your art. Do some stuff for friends, that sort of thing. Find that balance p oint where you're not going to develop a reputation that dixiedyboski does stuff for free. Display your art, be proud, and don't be afraid to take criticism and flames with the kudos and accolades.

In this way, when you hit that mark when you're 18, you're well practiced, have refined your technique,

Also, advice from K'sharra - work on a schedule. Start by doing art trades; this gets you in the habit of drawing what others want you to draw, and you get the barter thing going (i.e., you get art back! =D ). Also, if somebody REALLY wants to pay you for art, they can send a check or money order, or wire transfer the funds.

Note, too, that tax liability doesn't start to factor in unless you take more than $600 from one source; even then, you will probably find that washing out in the standard deduction of your 1040.

One more bit, as well, that she and I both agree on - make it clear that you do NOT do porn.

Good luck, and looking

Re: A suggestion

[dixiedyboski.livejournal.com]

Yes! Not that I don't mind doing things for free, but it is nice to get stuff back.
Would doing a timetable be any help? Just to make sure I don't procrastinate.
Are those tax rules the same in Britain?
And yes, most definitely.
Thankyou :3

[aurastarlucario.livejournal.com]

I personally disagree that you should wait just because you're a minor. Being underage doesn't mean you can't be trustworthy.
But are you responsible enough? You should try doing a couple art trades first and if you do okay with them, you should talk to your parents about it.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I agree with this. A few people have come forward saying that they stared taking commissions as a minor and it has worked for them BUT they were also responsible enough to make it work.

If you (the poster) are unsure about whether you're responsible enough to take on commissions for money, definitely start by doing trades and maybe talk with your parents about setting up some sort of system to get the work done? I figure that way, if they know about your business endeavors, they can help you if you have any problems and they may even have some ideas on how to start up and start out on the right foot. Whatever you choose to do (wait or start now,) I wish you the best of luck!

[the-princeling.livejournal.com]

Do you play any online games or are a part of any website that has "alternative" currency? Gaia items; DeviantART points; Furcadia digos; Second Life lindens; etc.?

I know for me when I was around your age, I was not allowed to have a PayPal account and handle money, but I still did full-blown commissions. I played a lot of online games and such, and so for "payment", people would give me wanted items that usually had a monetary value associated with them. (For example, on DeviantART, 80 points is equal to one USD, so if you really wanted to take commissions, you could do like, a full body sketch for $20 or 1600 points. You can't convert the points back to dollars as far as I know, but if you really, say, wanted a subscription from the DeviantART market but didn't have real money to pay for it, points would make a good alternative.) Stuff like these kind of commissions generally suck for if you want to use real money on stuff outside of online merchandise, but if you have things you generally want online or in-game and still want to do commissions, they make for a good alternative. I've also seen people do commissions for things like Amazon gift cards, etc. so they also wouldn't have to fool around with Paypal or money, but I'm not sure how deep you want to go into all of that!

[aurastarlucario.livejournal.com]

That's what I do.


Even though I charge waaay less points than that....:c
The most I charge is 25 of them.

[baronyiffington.livejournal.com]

Minors taking comissions is tough. You legally can't be bound by contracts, so making a Terms of Service won't work because... well, you don't have to follow it since you're a minor.

In addition, I don't know of any places you can send and receive money online if you are under 18, and dealing with money orders through the mail is just going to cause problems (as well as being frustrating for both ends).

I would agree with everyone above and say to just wait until you're 18.