Mod Post: Harassment is Unacceptable

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

It has come to our attention that a few of you have forgotten a very important policy regarding our community. It is one we've had to enforce way too much, way too recently and this is not a good thing.

Once again, to make things completely clear to everyone here:

Artists Beware does not, can not, and most certainly will not ever condone harassment of community users or of individuals posted here.

See Rule #2 in our Community Profile.

Going to another person's LJ/FA/DA/Tumblr/email/etc. to pester them over anything that has occurred in this community is a big fat freaking NO. What we are is a community for knowledge and professionalism. What we are not is an attack dog community.

There are reasons we do not let this kind of behavior stand in A_B. First of all, it goes against LiveJournal's abuse policies. They don't allow it, so we most certainly aren't either. Second of all, it creates a bad aura around our community, and gives people every right to attempt to label A_B as a 'drama comm' - which we are not! It is already very difficult to gauge which entries are going to cause what reaction, so users of A_B going after OPs or featured parties makes things all around harder.

While we moderators can understand information flying around faster these days with things like Twitter and Tumblr about, please just LOOK at where the information began before deciding you want to join in with the so-called lynch mob. If it originated here at Artists Beware, do everyone a favor and keep your hands off. And conversely, if you have no desire to avoid the drama and want to dive in head first? Don't come into Artists Beware to continue what you started off-community. Period. Either way, you WILL be punished if you're caught.

Lastly, I want to point out that there are six moderators in our community. All of us very active and easily accessible. There is no need for anyone to go so far as to attack another user in this community, in the event someone messes up. You come to us and we will handle it for you.

TL;DR, harassment of anyone in A_B is forbidden! Anyone caught will be warned or banned.

Comments

[ellonwye.livejournal.com]

Disputes that get turned into drama for whatever reason are helpful to nobody. They will make situations worse, so take the mature route and just stay out of it if you can.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Agreed completely.

[dustmeat.livejournal.com]

If your friend were being attacked on this community would you comment to defend your friend?

[dustmeat.livejournal.com]

I am glad that this was posted here, since Artists Beware used to be such a helpful community and I would like to see it return to that. Back in the day, it was a place to warn artists about crazy commissioners like Canis Claxis who came after me in a parking lot outside MFM convention. I was very grateful for the help back then.

Since that time I have watched as this community turned into a drama mob, tearing into artists for minor infractions and smearing their character even after they apologize. Who does THAT help? And the atrocious levels of unwarranted venom at the accused artists has made me turn White Knight more than once.

For some time now, I have wanted to leave this community because it was more about 'ATTACK THE SINNER' than helping artists. If we can turn this thing around again, back to how things originally were, it would gladden not just my heart but many others.

Thanks for being concerned.

[theredwolf.livejournal.com]

Yea, this is pretty much how I feel. Between all the drama that has been in here recently, all of the not-so-clear-cut 'tracings' and general atmosphere; it doesn't feel as helpful as much as it feels like a drama community anymore :(

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry but used to be? I don't like that idea. A_B has always been and always will be a helpful community.

Like I have stated in the actual entry - it is very hard to gauge what will and what will not blow up because there are so many unfortunate factors at play be it attitude from the OP, from the featured person, outside sources (non-A_B related) and uninformed individuals who sit there and pin this very comm as a drama mob that allow things to get heated.

Just focus on policing yourself, and maybe politely informing the misinformed (as long as they're not featured here) that their perceptions of A_B do more harm than good, since it is those who crow the worst of it all that have invited the unsavory element here.

[grygon.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this. Well said all around.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Actually, as I recall, this community used be much more dramatic before a gigantic change in moderation was made. So no, it wasn't always as squeaky clean as they're trying to make it.

[fallimar.livejournal.com]

It's interesting, actually - I've watched this community for a number of years and to be perfectly frank, I reckon it hasn't changed at all when it boils down to basics.
If you need proof, go take a sample of (valid!) posts from a few years back - most start exactly the same way:

Someone posts a negative experience, provides evidence of someone engaging in reprehensible behaviour.
The first comments, will be either people asking for evidence if insufficient was provided, or saying "wow, that's horrible, sorry you had to deal with that!", etc.

( ^This is a normal reaction. People will almost always react negatively when shown evidence of really bad behaviour. This hasn't changed! )

Then, if the artist or a friend chimes in and acts civilly, the conversation turns to investigation and often apology. In these cases the situation is often resolved quickly and rationally.

In cases where the accused turns to denial, "it was a social experiment", name-calling, bashing, counter-attacking... It all goes to poop. The fact we've seen a few of these lately, especially related to tracing posts, doesn't mean the community's changed, just that people are getting better at recognising certain patterns in behaviour.

To me, this is actually heartening! Of course, nobody wants to be posted here, especially if it's not warranted. Thing is, if it really isn't, it's far more likely than not you'll be able to provide evidence that you're not the criminal mastermind you're being portrayed as. If you can bring yourself to ignore the ubiquitous "wow, that's horrible!" comments at the beginning of every post, you've got every chance to bring your own view to the table, and in many cases we see the accused person become the 'good guy' as it were, and the original post becomes a beware against the OP.

In short, it's about investigating claims, not getting emotionally involved with comments. Sure, people get heated, but if you look in, it's usually AFTER someone's come in, flung about some proverbial poo and caused people to become understandably peeved. Not that this is a good thing at all (or what always happens... we're human after all), but there's plenty of evidence that if people keep their heads then things are handled civilly and with minimal fuss.

Uh, my slightly-more-than-two cents there, sorry for tl'dr :P

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

If anything, this community has changed for the better because I have looked through old posts and some of them are just hearsay or claims presented with little to no evidence - something that really does not fly with our userbase any longer. Some entries even contained a lot more personal information which is something we certainly do not allow now.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

I concur. I've been on here since about 2004 and I don't see a major change, though the rules have tightened up lately and more evidence tends to be requested in many cases.

The shift that did occur in the community is one from artists_beware (of flakey commissioners) to artists_to_beware_of. It still covers both, it always has, but I recall the ratio of posts back then being more towards the former.

[mikaufoxy.livejournal.com]

People in general just don't learn their lesson, it seems, which is the reason this post is up. It's why common sense has been known as rare sense these days. I go here, look at posts, go "Wow that sucks, never gonna commission this artist", and that's pretty much it for me.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

I really wish there was an easier way to tell if people have seen those damning journals or evidence from here or another site. Quite a few people claim that they've seen it on Twitter or Lulz way before they visited ab, but how far can we trust those words?

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

There's very few posts that get around to those places before A_B. November/early December was very out of the norm for A_B.

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

Sadly, not very far. Especially if the person(s) in question have not only posted here, but to those other places as well. Timestamps usually give away when you did what first, so there's really not much of an excuse. Especially if you do go off into those posts to participate in the drama and then try to bring it here.

Its why you're better off leaving A_B alone if you've gotten yourself knee deep in it elsewhere.

[fallimar.livejournal.com]

I suppose evidence is evidence, unfortunately. Even if it's been found on another site, as long as the evidence itself is current, relevant and sound, does it matter hugely where it comes from?

I mean - if someone comes in here flaming on about some terrible experience and link us back to lulz or another drama pit for all their evidence requirements, then I can't see the post making it through moderation. If the same evidence is taken on its own merits, then it doesn't really matter if it's been posted before elsewhere as some people here don't frequent those kinds of places, and will therefore take it at face value without their opinions being coloured by any previous viewings - which is how it should all be taken anyway!

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

:\ Really I'd say the damage has been done to the group. There are a lot of people who see A_B as a drama-comm :( which is really sad because bar the few recent entries there hasn't really been all that much "drama"...Other than some of the people being reported having a big ol' sad in their journals on whatever art site.


Many kudos to the mods!

[zydala.livejournal.com]

I think it's the nature of the subject of artists_beware that gets itself caught up in drama... I'm sure a majority of the people that are a part of the community do it with the intention of knowing who is a good client/artist and who to avoid... but you can't help the people that follow it and go "OH BOY wonder who's done screwed up this time!!" every time there's a new post.

It's kind of a gossipy subject in and of itself since art communities can be so tight... I mean I know there was a recent entry that my girlfriend and I kept an eye on because it involved someone we knew indirectly (she had a commission from the artist in queue as well), and we couldn't help but talk about it because we were really shocked. I don't think either of us commented on it because we found it to be in poor taste, but that sort of situation pops into my head when people talk about a_b being sort of a "drama" community.

In any case, I personally feel like you moderators are doing a great job handling things here, despite the strange uproars that happen once in a while, and you guys are very fair in what you permit and encourage and what you discourage. :] Keep up the good work!

[taasla.livejournal.com]

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about A_B. I had someone on FA vehemently tell me that A_B was "worthless" because people could "post anything they want!!" on there. When I politely tried to tell him that, actually, no, you can't just post anything on here and you need proof, he was just so confused.

November was definitely an anomaly in A_B. I think it can recover though. A lot of people not in the comm don't seem to understand that this isn't a drama comm, and I'd be happy enough to set the record straight.

[fallimar.livejournal.com]

yeah... when all the info people get about the community is from hate-fuelled journals by people who've been posted or their insane white knights, things can get more than a little twisted!

[thaily.livejournal.com]

So, say I read someone's journal or watch their DA/FA account and comment on an issue (perhaps even unpleasantly) and then see it mentioned in A_B, I could get in trouble in the comm because it was featured there, even though I found out about it elsewhere first? O_o

Does that also count for comments clearly not intended to harass? Just because someone coming from AB + leaving any type of comment = always harassment?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

So, say I read someone's journal or watch their DA/FA account and comment on an issue (perhaps even unpleasantly) and then see it mentioned in A_B, I could get in trouble in the comm because it was featured there, even though I found out about it elsewhere first? O_o

We're aware that this happens and that's why less people end up actually getting banned because of this rule. If you know there's been an AB made you're better off not commenting, but if you've commented already and tell us you found it from somewhere else when we talk to you about it, we generally have to take your word for it. But if someone comes on the AB post, goes 'Wow what a jerk' and then goes to that person page and goes 'YOU'RE A JERK', they're going to get in trouble because it'll be fairly obvious they came from AB.

Does that also count for comments clearly not intended to harass? Just because someone coming from AB + leaving any type of comment = always harassment?

We stress no contact at all, even attempts to be helpful or neutral because it's not up to us to decide what's harassment. Some of these people might see any contact at all as harassment (such as Kraven). It's not something we can control from our side, so it's safer to just not do it at all so the comm doesn't get shut down.

[whereisourcrown.livejournal.com]

The link in this entry is broken.

Also, can we get a link to/excerpt from the actual rule in LJ's terms that outlines what is and is not acceptable behavior in this regard? I couldn't find anything specific toward communities when I looked.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

The link works fine for me?

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

Who turned the community this green color? :(

What's the code to view it with my own theme?

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

I don't know. It might me a Christmas thing. *shrug*

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

The page keeps changing colors..

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

We changed the layout a bit ago. It should be fine now.

[enter-data-here.livejournal.com]

I think you guys REALLY need to make the "THIS GUY IS MISSING SOME KEY INFO I DOUBT HIM HE MUST BE A LIAR BEWARE THE OP!!!" and "I'M BLACKLISTING THE OP/BEWAREE NOW" against the rules too. I know it'll be disagreed with, but the way I saw the kravenlupei thing he started getting belligerent when he felt he was being attacked and blacklisted by people for no reason, even though he had other artists come in and vouch for him as a good commissioner.

He definitely went WAAAY too far off journal and earned his permaban, don't get me wrong, but he posted a perfectly valid beware and when it was discovered that he was missing a piece of information, some commenters flipped out and essentially started accusing him of lying, he got defensive, people started saying they were blacklisting him because of his attitude (which is, honestly, how a LOT of people would react, including myself), then he started flinging insults. Keep in mind that in the end, he wasn't even lying about anything, Shiuk never came and debated the fact AND he got a refund. That is NOT fair in my eyes.

It really makes me mad when I see those kinds of posts because it makes me afraid to EVER post anything in the future here, for fear that a popular or well-known poster will disagree with me or accuse me of something ridiculous and a bunch of other people are gonna jump on the bandwagon in support... that I'm gonna get "blacklisted" for no reason and have a bunch of people come harass me on my page. I'm sure you guys are well aware of how easy A_B can ruin someone's reputation. It's happened already to other posters, and when you guys allow these comments to get out of hand that's when the harassment on the OP starts, because they think the community agrees with them.

It's not right, no, but there must be some truth to it since you have to make this kind of entry in the first place!

I hope I'm making sense, I'm not going to finger point anyone specifically but that is just my observation. Those types of comments seriously cause a lot of drama, and I'm starting to look at A_B as a drama community myself, and I really, REALLY don't want that. PLEASE do something about these comments, I really think they will help cut down any drama bombs in the future.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Making a rule against asking for more proof is not going to happen.

[elmenora.livejournal.com]

Quick question about the rules. First, I've had a couple occasions where I wanted to break off contact with someone because of something posted in this community, by unwatching them and/or cancelling commissions. Would it be against the rules to explain that I'm doing it because of the Beware?

[oceandezignz.livejournal.com]

In my opinion, no one needs to know the reason why you're unwatching their account, frankly its only your business and if they're smart they'll catch on to what started it (in cases of high losses on the watch-count) in the first place. Maybe they'll clean up their act, maybe they'll just keep on. That's their choice unfortunately, just as much as it is yours to no longer support them.

As for cancelling any sort of commissions, you have every right to do it. Just, giving reasons is pretty much by your own choice. There really doesn't NEED to be a reason to tell anyone 'your post on A_B makes me want to head for the hills - I'm cancelling this commission'. A simple 'I am no longer comfortable to continue this commission, therefore I am cancelling' will suffice - and possibly cause as little damage as possible in the end.

Its really all about the result you want, and if you're trying to back away from a dramateer - a quiet exit is best.