Beware: Sin.
Jan. 12th, 2012 02:52 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
jeiwolf.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
artists_beware
WHO: Sin.
WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.
WHAT: Originally, a commission of 10 chibi's. Eventually changed to 2 sketch pages for artist convenience. Changed again to a single piece for artists convenience.
WHEN: November 15th, 2010 - January 12, 2012
PROOF: The original agreement on November 15th, 2010 where Sin. accepted $40 for 10 fully colored pictures.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence2.png
EXPLAIN: Originally, Sin. was hard up for money and needed quick buck to help her out with some things. I had some expendable cash and had recently discovered her, so I thought I could help out and get some art along the way. By November 20th she had accepted my ideas and was to begin work on the pieces ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence3.png ).
From that date, all of the interaction between Sin. and myself took place over messengers where it was easier to quickly communicate ideas. She finished pieces from others who commissioned her from the same journal as I did and even started taking more commissions both from journals and livestreams. She claimed that she would work on mine, but I never was shown any progress nor would she work on them in public view for me to see. I was careful not to be belligerent, however, and did not push her too harshly to finish them. Now and then I would reminder her that she still owed me things only to be met with "Oh I know! I haven't forgotten about you!", but it yielded no actual results.
For the next few months this went on, asking for updates and reminding that she still owed me work while she continued to take and finish others commissions right before my eyes, but she said that so many pictures were too difficult. So I agreed for the sake of getting SOMETHING for my money to condense it all down into two sketch pages instead of 10 fully colored pieces. This was completely for Sin.'s convenience. More months pass and despite claims of having a full page completed, no progress was shown physically. Eventually after a lapse of contact I sent a note to ask how the sketches were going at which point she admitted to being behind and opted instead to give me 5 pieces of art fully colored ( HALF of the original amount ) for my troubles. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence4.png And http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence5.png ).
I stated that I would tell her precisely what I wanted at a later date, since I wasn't exactly sure at this point what to commission. Things stayed this way for a couple of weeks until my girlfriend and I chose what we wanted. The idea of a five person commission, despite her request to only have 3 per pictures, was given to her with the perk of it being the only picture she would have to complete to fulfill her duty to me. At first she accepted, but once confronted with the idea of drawing it decided it would be too difficult and backed down. Several more days pass and I allow my girlfriend some of the slots that I didn't know how to use to get a reference sheet. She knew the details better than I would, so I had her contact Sin. directly. Sin. denied my girlfriend without attempting to contact me based on the fact that they were my slots.
This all leads to January 12, 2012 when she sent me this note with no provocation from myself. Needless to say, I was surprised to see it pop up in my inbox. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence6.png ). Of course, having been as patient as I was ( even recognized by herself at one point ) this felt like a kick in the gut. Finally we work out the deal to do the original idea that I had come up with for the 5 person commission and that would fulfill her obligation to me.
She insisted on doing this commission immediately to get it out of the way. I had things to take care of and it was getting very late, so my girlfriend handled the details for me. Immediately she continued her rude attitude and made things very difficult to the very end.
It is obvious from looking at the piece that her normal care was not put into it and it was finished in under an hour after over a year of waiting. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/beecarcommission.png ). No background, sloppy lines, hardly adding ANY detail.
Finally, as soon as she finished the commission, she posted a journal about her experience with "us" and showing her true emotion and attitude. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence8.png ).
I do a lot of commissioning and this is the worst experience I have ever had. Stay FAR away from this artist.
WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sin.
WHAT: Originally, a commission of 10 chibi's. Eventually changed to 2 sketch pages for artist convenience. Changed again to a single piece for artists convenience.
WHEN: November 15th, 2010 - January 12, 2012
PROOF: The original agreement on November 15th, 2010 where Sin. accepted $40 for 10 fully colored pictures.
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence2.png
EXPLAIN: Originally, Sin. was hard up for money and needed quick buck to help her out with some things. I had some expendable cash and had recently discovered her, so I thought I could help out and get some art along the way. By November 20th she had accepted my ideas and was to begin work on the pieces ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence3.png ).
From that date, all of the interaction between Sin. and myself took place over messengers where it was easier to quickly communicate ideas. She finished pieces from others who commissioned her from the same journal as I did and even started taking more commissions both from journals and livestreams. She claimed that she would work on mine, but I never was shown any progress nor would she work on them in public view for me to see. I was careful not to be belligerent, however, and did not push her too harshly to finish them. Now and then I would reminder her that she still owed me things only to be met with "Oh I know! I haven't forgotten about you!", but it yielded no actual results.
For the next few months this went on, asking for updates and reminding that she still owed me work while she continued to take and finish others commissions right before my eyes, but she said that so many pictures were too difficult. So I agreed for the sake of getting SOMETHING for my money to condense it all down into two sketch pages instead of 10 fully colored pieces. This was completely for Sin.'s convenience. More months pass and despite claims of having a full page completed, no progress was shown physically. Eventually after a lapse of contact I sent a note to ask how the sketches were going at which point she admitted to being behind and opted instead to give me 5 pieces of art fully colored ( HALF of the original amount ) for my troubles. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence4.png And http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence5.png ).
I stated that I would tell her precisely what I wanted at a later date, since I wasn't exactly sure at this point what to commission. Things stayed this way for a couple of weeks until my girlfriend and I chose what we wanted. The idea of a five person commission, despite her request to only have 3 per pictures, was given to her with the perk of it being the only picture she would have to complete to fulfill her duty to me. At first she accepted, but once confronted with the idea of drawing it decided it would be too difficult and backed down. Several more days pass and I allow my girlfriend some of the slots that I didn't know how to use to get a reference sheet. She knew the details better than I would, so I had her contact Sin. directly. Sin. denied my girlfriend without attempting to contact me based on the fact that they were my slots.
This all leads to January 12, 2012 when she sent me this note with no provocation from myself. Needless to say, I was surprised to see it pop up in my inbox. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence6.png ). Of course, having been as patient as I was ( even recognized by herself at one point ) this felt like a kick in the gut. Finally we work out the deal to do the original idea that I had come up with for the 5 person commission and that would fulfill her obligation to me.
She insisted on doing this commission immediately to get it out of the way. I had things to take care of and it was getting very late, so my girlfriend handled the details for me. Immediately she continued her rude attitude and made things very difficult to the very end.
It is obvious from looking at the piece that her normal care was not put into it and it was finished in under an hour after over a year of waiting. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/beecarcommission.png ). No background, sloppy lines, hardly adding ANY detail.
Finally, as soon as she finished the commission, she posted a journal about her experience with "us" and showing her true emotion and attitude. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence8.png ).
I do a lot of commissioning and this is the worst experience I have ever had. Stay FAR away from this artist.
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well..
Date: 2012-01-20 07:31 pm (UTC)i saw an exchange of notes between carrot (the commissioner) and sin. on the day that the car image was completed. this was when she forgot to pause her screen in a livestream, so i don't have any solid proof of this. you can either believe me or not.
her inbox was flooded with carrot waffling about whether he wanted a refund or the commission (yeah, i'll just take the refund. no wait, i'd rather have the art. but a refund would be nice. stuff like that). people in the stream were concerned, asking "who's that?" and bee just casually responded "LOL NOBODY."
the refsheet that bee requested as part of carrot's prepaid slots was a REFSHEET AUCTION that she won. she said in a livestream chat that carrot said it was okay, but as an artist... man. if someone's winning an auction, they're gonna pay me their high bid, you know? i personally thought it was really rude to ask something like that, ESPECIALLY not being the person who gave her the cash in the first place. it's kinda like me taking my boyfriend's credit card to best buy and telling them "it's okay! he said i could use it!"
and as i understand with the chibi situation, the original commission was for, like, him and his girlfriend at the time or something. then they broke up. he told her to hold back on the chibis for awhile, and didn't give her any further instructions for months.
again, i know i don't have any solid proof here. you can take this or leave it, guys... just know that sin isn't a demon. if i were in that situation as an artist, i'd be pretty annoyed, too.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-20 10:12 pm (UTC)The back and forth was because she never told me she had started. I told her my preference that I would like to have the image done, but thought about it briefly. She said she could stream it if I wanted, but I didn't get back to her because I was quite busy. Finally I said that I would like the refund, but she had already begun work, therefore I told her she could finish and I would just accept it.
Everybody knows about the refsheet auction. I am in agreement that it should not have been done. I wasn't even AWARE that was what she was trying to do at the time. She has admitted that was wrong. However, that does not excuse over a year of no updates and refusing to do the initial work commissioned.
You understand the "chibi" situation wrong. The original commission WAS for my girlfriend and I at the time. We did break up. I never did say to hold back. That is not a thing that occurred.
EDIT: Also, her note box was not flooded. That is a large manipulation of the truth. I sent two notes, one saying that I would like the refund. The second confirming that she had already started and that she could just go ahead and complete since she had begun work and I didn't feel right making her stop.
EDIT 2: The notes in question:
Me asking for the refund, not realizing she had begun drawing it in a stream already, as I was not informed of it. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/Sinevidence9.png )
My response to confirm she could continue after learning of her stream, but she didn't have to if she just wanted to refund me. ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/sinevidence11.png )
Sin.'s response ( http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc496/Carrotwolf/sinevidence10.png )
The issue was not the completion of the picture. The issue was the length of time it took with no communication, no progress, and ultimately no care.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-20 11:04 pm (UTC)i'd call these progress.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5062513/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5073435/
it looks like you did change your original commissioning instructions to use sin and not bee.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 12:05 am (UTC)Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 12:32 am (UTC)wish i could see the notes/paypal proof of that.
oh well.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 05:49 pm (UTC)Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 08:30 pm (UTC)"TO THE POINT: The original date of commission was November 15, 2010. I got NOTHING until January 12, 2012. "
That was copied from one of your original posts/comments with Celerania (sorry if I spelled that wrong)
This is taken from part of my post which you can find down a ways:
"He DID say, after schopenhauer linked him to both links to proove as progress, that he commissioned these two
following chibi commissions AFTER the $40, and had given me money for THESE seperate chibis in a seperate
transaction; his comment saying that is here: http://i.imgur.com/4Wqwe.png
I will now link both images with the date open, and the original links straight to the submission itself:
http://i.imgur.com/0E4zs.png - carrot draging MY character clay
Original FA submission: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5062479/
http://i.imgur.com/RU3S7.png - his character singing and my character on the drums playing rockband
Original FA submission: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5073405/
(If you aren't sure how to pull up the date yourself, look to the right where it says "Submission Information" and
By "Posted" it should say "A Year ago", click on "A year ago" and it should pop out with the exact date and time
that it was uploaded.~)
The last transaction in paypal was done MAY 3RD, 2011. You can see that I posted those chibis in JANUARY of 2011. "
and
"Here is another one I did for him: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5801803/
I was holding a livestream, he came in, wanted a chibi, so I told him I would just draw him one from one I owed him
(use one of his slots), you can see in the transaction screenshot that he did not pay me for it, which was no
problem, I owed him a lot. This was done MAY 24TH and I did put $3 chibi in the title, simply because that's what I
was offering at the time in the stream and he wanted one so I was happy to oblige."
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-22 05:57 pm (UTC)Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 06:46 am (UTC)Also, Sin.'s attitude was not an overreaction. His girlfriend was VERY rude and picked a fight in the stream in front of everybody else.
I would warn other artists away from taking commissions from this couple.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 08:30 am (UTC)I posted the notes that were exchanged between Sin. and I, how that affects the fact that she took over a year to give any result I'm not sure.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 04:24 pm (UTC)Re: well
Date: 2012-01-21 06:38 pm (UTC)The only drama was with your response; I had until the point that I saw you'd hidden my comments fully expected to just pay you the fifteen and move on. I definitely did not copy the entire chatlog of your stream, as I did not have it at that point. I was later copypasted most if not all of the conversation about me after I left.
Re: well
Date: 2012-01-21 08:57 pm (UTC)"No she did it into her chat with carrot and said lul but she did it while streaming so everyone could see..."
This is what I got from my witness, though you and Carrot's chat DO have nothing to do with the people in your livestream, you do have a pausing button to where you can click to pause the screen to where no one would see what you said and could talk to him privately, and you made the mistake of not doing so, which, looked really guilty on your part.
Re: well
Date: 2012-01-21 10:54 pm (UTC)I really wasn't concerned about hiding that comment or I would have.
Re: well
Date: 2012-01-21 11:25 pm (UTC)So no, I was not ENTIRLEY wrong, you did in fact take context out of my stream, and paste it to your boyfriend adding "lul" at the end, where everyone in your stream could see it.
Re: well
Date: 2012-01-22 09:06 am (UTC)Re: well
Date: 2012-01-22 09:12 am (UTC)Also, yes, I was having a conversation with my boyfriend while I was streaming artwork for you, and I apologize that you found my conversation to be unprofessional. I find it interesting, however, that you don't find it unprofessional to watch Sin's conversations with her boyfriend, or other friends. That seems a little biased.
Regardless, this conversation is getting ridiculous. I believe all questions have been answered and the truth has been presented. You can say what you like but I'm out. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss it any further. :)
Re: well
Date: 2012-01-22 05:11 pm (UTC)That's what she called unprofessional.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 06:23 pm (UTC)Somebody asked in chat, "Who's that?" and someone ELSE, I believe Sin, replied "nobody". To which I replied "lol" because I was amused by the blatant disrespect she was showing to someone who paid her a fair bit of money and who she'd been incredibly rude to.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 07:28 pm (UTC)as an artist taking commissions, based solely upon what i saw in public, i wouldn't do business with you guys.
this is only even moreso now that i've seen this A_B post. carrot left out details and claimed he got nothing in those months when he did get something. he didn't even show his own half of correspondence, which looks really fishy to me.
oh well. i'm not gonna bug you about it anymore. the only people who are even reading these threads anymore are you and carrot.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 08:00 pm (UTC)Of course I'm not suggesting you continue to interact with this person if you feel that the exchange is going nowhere, just informing you that this post is being watched.
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 08:45 pm (UTC)i do encourage either of them to contact me privately if they have anything new to say.
but thanks!
Re: well..
Date: 2012-01-21 08:16 pm (UTC)I'm sorry if that's what you thought I meant by it, but I can assure you that it really wasn't.