Advice needed- Making adjustments to commissions

[canilupine.livejournal.com]

I recently found myself in a moral/legal dilemma, and talking to people I know gives me answers on both sides of the issue.

I recently commissioned some art from a very talented artist (Name withheld because it's not relevant), and I absolutely loved the way they drew my fursona. However, there was a slight problem with my colors being off in a couple places. The artist said they went off of my ref sheet, but still somehow managed to miss colors in a few places. It's not a very big deal, but to me, someone getting my colors wrong is akin to mispronouncing my name- it's like a pet peeve.

Instead of being one of those whiny commissioners that insists the artist gets every detail just so, I usually take the file and make the minor adjustments myself to the colors as needed. This serves to both lower the workload on the artist so they can take on other commissions, and gives me art practice while perfecting the look of my fursona. To me, that's a win-win. With the first piece I ever got commissioned, for example, I adjusted the eye color until I found a shade I liked. The most common error is that the artist uses a medium-dark gray for my fursona's black fur, when his fur is supposed to be a jet black, so I'll go back and darken the color to a very dark gray or straight black, depending on whether or not it will hide line art. Another alteration I've made is recoloring my paws and the underside of my tail to a silver color as shown in my reference, instead of white. When working on the piece, I take great care not to alter the quality of the artwork, and do my best to make it look as if it was never altered to begin with (the only exception being my reference sheet, because the original file is lost to Oblivion, and it's almost impossible to recolor a jpeg image cleanly). In the end, I have a greater appreciation for the image, because it looks just the way I imagine my fursona to look, drawn in the style of one of my favorite artists.

Now, the advice I need is in regards to the actual editing of the images. When I spoke to the artist about it, the artist told me they found it very disrespectful to alter their artwork, and asked me not to. Other artists I've spoken to say that it's my right to edit the art, because they didn't get my colors right, and I paid for the artwork.

I'm pretty sure that by paying for the commission, I have certain rights to the image, and because it's my character, I own the rights to his design, and I should be free to make the necessary alterations to reflect my character's design. However, I don't want to disrespect the artist, even though they made a few small errors in my commission. So I ask, what are the things commissioners can and cannot do in this kind of situation?

EDIT: Since it seems that some are speculating on the specifics of my particular case, the image in question was a digital file, flat colors, no background, and I did not see any WIP images before it was finished and posted, if that clears up anything. However, I intended this to be a more generalized question about what a commissioner should do in the event that they find the final product misses key design aspects of the commissioned character, such as leaving out a color entirely, which has occurred multiple times. Though it seems like the final answer is "Your results may vary" based on the artist you commission, since some artists find it disrespectful to make alterations to their work, but others can be offended if you ask for changes to be made after it's been completed. The secondary question was the extent of the rights of a commissioner of the artwork they purchase, and whether or not they would be within their rights to alter an image in a way that would not violate the artists' moral rights, but it seems there's no clear answer for this.

EDIT 2: Another issue that arises is the fact that an artist may charge extra for changes, when a client paid for something to be a certain way when they originally commissioned the artist. When the artist has made an error, but is requiring additional payment to fix the error, what should a commissioner do?

EDIT 3: Alrighty, I think that about covers all the questions I had. Thank you all for providing a wealth of useful information! Hopefully others will find this topic useful as well, and both artists and commissioners can find common ground without anyone stepping on the others' toes. ^^

Comments

[leahtaur.livejournal.com]

You retain rights to your character but not to the art itself, and it violates the artist's rights to modify the art in that way without their permission. Most artists would prefer you to speak up during the commission process so they can fix the colours themselves, I think.

I suggest you find out the exact html code for the colours you want and ask your artists to use those for commissions -- either that or pick the colours out from a palette site like colourlovers.com and ask the artist to colour pick from that exactly.

[gaaralover85.livejournal.com]

^ Exactly what I said. Only more condensed :P Well done leah, i tend to dribble on too much! Haha <3

[y0te.livejournal.com]

If the artist in question doesn't want you to alter the image, why not ask them if they could do it for you and explain -why- you asked to alter it in the first place, provided you haven't?

[y0te.livejournal.com]

And if it's that important, offer to pay for the changes? Leahtaur has a good idea there, because hex codes are hella useful when it comes to getting the final product you want from an artist.

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

I can't comment on the legalities of the thing, but in terms of etiquette I think asking once for some colour changes (especially if it's just deepening a black) is absolutely not pushy or inappropriate unless it's like a $1 sketch.

I can see why an artist might be miffed if you change something without mentioning it was an issue to them and giving them a chance to fix it themselves, it can convey to them that you don't trust them or their judgement whether or not that was the intent.

[purpule.livejournal.com]

As the others have said, the artist holds the rights to alter or modify the work - regardless of it being your character or commission. I would suggest asking the artist to add in the extra details if they've gotten them wrong. As someone being paid to represent your character correctly, they shouldn't have a problem with it.

[fatkraken.livejournal.com]

It might be worth making an annotated ref sheet: label the areas which are commonly mis-coloured with notes on how they should be done, and for toony commissions ask the artist to use HTML codes or eyedropper from the ref

[gaaralover85.livejournal.com]

Personally I would go from the Artist's TOS as to whether or not you a) make the alteration yourself or b) ask the artist, politely, to make the colour changes that you are satisfied with. Each artist's TOS, regarding the amendments they will do on a "finished" piece, is different. I would suggest, if you are unsure as to whether a particular artist will get your colours exactly the way you are wanting them, to request a viewing at the flat colour stage. Some artist's may charge extra for this, or they may not do it at all. It's pretty much up to you to ask about these services upon enquiry for commission. Or, just to give them a helping hand, put the hex/RGB codes on your ref sheet for the individual colours, if you do not have a colour swatch pallette for them. Most artist's I know, who work digitally, will colour pick directly from your reference, so maybe this will help ease concerns on both sides.

As an artist I find other's altering my work, either in colour tone, adding things I've missed etc to be very disrespectful. I show my clients every stage, and am more than happy to do colour modifications free of charge if it is my mistake. The worse thing an artist can say is "No", but it's better to ask, than to step on their toes, or in-advertantly insult them.

Hope this helps!
Sugar
x

[yoka-neko.livejournal.com]

im wondering if the reference you gave and the artist's work are different (i forget the correct name) colour settings. As in CMYK & RGB. When exported, the colour will appear slightly different according to the setting. CMYK is designed for printing out and RGB is designed for digital images.

However if i am completely off the ball, then i suggest contacting the artist about the colours with the exact colour code you are after, as I kinda agree that altering images is a little disheartening, its happened to me before, and it could of easily been resolved if they had just been honest with me to begn with.

Hope that helps

[everainsley]

Even RBG profiles can differ. I just recently had an issue where I modified a skin base (open source) for Second Life, but I was having trouble with some of the other textures matching. Some were files I created on a different computer and modified from my previous re-texture (so I didin't have to fight as much with texture placement) and some were completely new.

Turns out that I was trying to match 3 different RBG profiles that were embedded into the files. When I resaved everything without the embedded files, it all matched up fine.

I was working with various purples here, and I know RGB can be kind of a bitch when it comes to darker colors.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

When you commission work, you pay for the labor, not the rights. The rights are generally several hundreds if not more. It's a very common misconception, but no, you don't have any rights unless they were negotiated (and generally, paid for) beforehand.

That said, most artists are pretty cool about customers doing things that would officially require you to have the rights, such as reposting or a little editing, like cropping it down to an icon. But if you're going to edit the image, ask if they mind.

If they just suddenly find the commission somewhere and it's altered they might be angry, offended, annoyed, hurt etc.
But like I said, most artists are pretty cool about making their customers happy, if one asked me "Oh the colour is a little off, could I change it to (hex code)?" then I'd be all "Oh I can do that." (Unless it's super involved etc. but then you might not be able to do it either).

Finally, most artists use dark gray so you won't lose the (presumably) black linework. So, that's why :3

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I also use indigo a lot for black fur, especially for highlights. it's easier to get depth in traditional media that way.

Indigo plus dark sienna makes the best warm black.

That being said, OP, if you're really fussy about a colour, especially if the artist is usually doing real media, let them know the black must be black. Not dark grey, not indigo, but black.

I actually have a little clause in my TOS that says that as much as I will try to match colours on a ref sheet, I work in real media and it often won't be exact.

[ocelotish]

I would say legally you're allowed to do whatever you like to "your copy." If it was a traditional piece you had bought, you could do anything to it you liked to that piece of paper, but the artist still owns the "image." Basically this means that you're welcome to do whatever you want to "your" copy (privately), but that the artist controls the image itself (how it's shown in public, at least speaking in broad terms).

What I would do is talk to the artists about recoloring. You can even ask if they can do it - the worst they'll say is no. You can always still edit it for private use after the commission is complete. (Personally, I think the artist is obligated to revise it, if you bring it up as soon as you notice the error. In particular - try to bring it up during the base color stage, before they've done all their work.)

If this keeps happening with the same colors, there may be a problem with your ref sheet. If, for example, your ref sheet shows a medium dark grey, half the people who draw it might go a little lighter, and half the people may go a little darker. There's no harm in saying "This color fur, leaning towards the darker side." (In fact I know some artists who would appreciate that!) Sometimes just a hex is a lot less meaningful than how something should look.

[spiffystuff.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think this summed it up perfectly!

Private: really folks can do whatever they want.
Post it anywhere public and OP better be sure they had the artist's permission if it's different.

I believe this is both what the law says and also ethically best balances everyone's preferences.

[mrst4nkr.livejournal.com]

Me, personally? I'd ask the artist if they wouldn't mind fixing the colors. (TMK, it's usually done on its own layer -digitally-, so it shouldn't fudge anything up too badly)

In that same bit of text say " Or, if it's too much trouble, I can try to fix it. "

See if they get miffed at that.

It's not really yours to recolor, and honestly depends on the reaction from the artist. Most artists will fix it, just for the customer service aspect of it all.

[millislim.livejournal.com]

there maybe a happy middle to this...have you ever thought to ask the artist to provide you the palette they'll use? (if it's digital I mean) That way you can see how it'll looking on your computer? From what it sounds like, your monitor is one way while the artists' are another...a quick...here are the colors I'm gonna use...are these alright? May save headaches on both ends

[matrices.livejournal.com]

I have trouble matching colors to my screen because I use a laptop. It is VERY easy to get the colors off on a piece. Even between scanning real media and comparing it with the real life piece.

Speaking as an artist and a client, I do not mind people changing my work if they commissioned it, and as a purchaser of work I ask first and see where it goes from there, but for tiny under $10 items usually small changes aren't something I bother the artist with to do for me, sometimes I bring it up, sometimes I don't.

Not sure if this rambling even helps. But yep.

[mpd-84.livejournal.com]

I've found that I have this issues with any flat screen, laptop or not. Something about them seems to distort colors. A solid color background will be lighter at the bottom of the screen and darker at the top.

[pandacat-magic.livejournal.com]

I personally don't mind if I was asked to fix some coloring on a commission as long as it wasn't line work or adding new things to a completed commission. I think a lot of artists are okay with that because they want to make their commissioners happy.


Though..I honestly dislike working with pure jet black as a base color, it's impossible to shade and very very difficult to see your lines. qq That's probably why a lot of the artists you commission change the color from jet black to a dark-grey, OP.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Unless it is an original piece you physical own (not digital), you don't own the artwork or rights at all, even if it is your design. You just own a copy of the artwork. The artist still has the rights to alteration of the work unless it falls under fair use, and you can't legally change it without the author granting permission and possibly charging additional fees. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't copyright your character unless it is unique enough.

[crimson-flygon.livejournal.com]

This. Coming from someone who has had classes with sections about copyrights (in regard to graphic design but that is neither here nor there.) This is why it is called a "commission" you are paying someone to create the piece, but to actually own the rights to an image is a whole bother issue. Generally in "real world" applications the company/person/whatever looking for the artwork must pay for it's creation and then there are lots of contracts and legal shenanigans very specifically outlining in what aspects they own the image. The artist can retain ownership of an image, sell it for a limited number of reproduction or uses, or sell the rights away completely. In the case of the furry art community (where there isn't much understanding about copyright and art is so readily available,) and how cheaply artists sell themselves... it's just a "give me money I draw this particular subject," case unless otherwise specified. What you do privately with the piece is as out of the artist's control as me buying a poster at the store and drawing on it at home. Officially an artist still retains their right to the image completely, it's up to them what you can and cannot do with it.

[kiriska.livejournal.com]

As an artist, it is actually in my TOS that I do not want clients editing finished pieces. :x If I get something wrong, I want the client to tell me so I can fix it myself. The idea of someone going into my work after I'm done with it is weirdly unsettling?

[p3nsive.livejournal.com]

Seconding this! I'm very happy to make changes myself, and would much prefer that to my commissioners changing things themselves.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

I personally do not like it when a client goes and edits art that I would have completely edited for them. I don't think it was a good idea, nor do I think you have any rights to the image - just the right to the artists labor of that image. Most people find it very disrespectful to edit an image without telling them what's wrong.

It would have been respectful to ask, instead of simply editing.

If I had done your image OP, I would not have used jet black either. Just wanting to say, it's a bit of an eyesore to use a color that has no real shade or light values. Simply just "Black" is a royal pain to use for most.

[gaaralover85.livejournal.com]

Agreeing on the black issue. If anything I use a very dark indigo for "black" characters, and my inkwork is a very deep red for lines and such. Aswell as greys falling slightly right of the "true" value that most tend to pick from. Using pure black is such a pain to do, and most people stay very well clear of it :S

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

I find that extremely disrespectful. You do not own the rights to edit the piece, im pretty sure most artists would charge more for that.

As well as that, I often change the shade of jet black to a dark gray because otherwise you will not be able to see the linework and it will make the piece pretty confusing to look at.

[demonofdreams.livejournal.com]

As a commissioner, I would prefer to trust the artist to change it for me, as it's their artwork (even though it's my character(s) involved) and they know what's best for how they work.

As an artist, I'd prefer if my commissioners tell me if I made a mistake or used the wrong shade, or if they wanted another shade or hue in place. If someone changes the colours without asking me first, I'd just feel that the commissioner doesn't trust me with the job, or finds me too intimidating to approach. It's not a good feeling.

I don't find pure black to be practical to work with, at least a very deep grey would be my choice in that situation. Like the others have said above, pure black is painful to work with most of the time.

Edited: Changed icon so that it sort of fits with the post.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

I haven't read all the comments here yet, so I might be echoing what other have said.

Don't be afraid to politely ask for minor changes. In the same vein, you can ask the artist for a WIP. Some, like me, would give it to you so long as money has been paid.

If you want to edit the picture, you MUST ask permission. You don't automatically get it, because even though the character is yours, the copyright of that particular image is owned by the artist.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

In a general sense I do not mind most of my customers editing art after they purchase it as LONG as they ask and it's not TOO much of a serious edit. I tend to get a bit miffed if I find out on my own w/o permission. Also it depends on the price of the picture and if it includes the edits before the finished product. (A commission for a lesser price would obviously not come with approval before being delivered) Usually I'm more than happy to fix a commission if I, the artist, messed up drawing a key detail that was on/in a reference/description. If the customer sends references that do not include what they ask to be fixed I'm less inclined to fix it because it was their fault for not providing a proper reference/description and would cost a bit extra to edit depending on the scale of the screw up.

Also gonna repeat a LOT of people, most artists never use 'jet black'. Not only is it a pain in the ass to color with, it just looks bad. So no most of the people you commission EVER will use your 'jet black' if you even want to see any form of line art beneath it. Artists don't like to use it, but if you the customer WANT it that way it's best to just let them know ahead of time because it is not default for a lot of artists.

TL:DR
It all varies from artist to artist, but I would particularly be unhappy if I was not asked before hand. Also 'pure black' is not a default for artists to use for coloring. If you want it 'pure black' Please let the artist know your specifics! Ask! & Tell!

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

To your second edit, if an artist screwed up and did not properly deliver a good piece even after you provided good proper references and was still going to charge you for edits EVEN THOUGH it was their fault? Ask politely that it is in fact their fault, listing again the original details you provided. I believe if they do not correct their own work then you are SOL really. (Or possible A_B post if you have good evidence of their laziness) You STILL do not have the permission of the artist to edit their work. Even if they do not want to, you do not have permission. End of story. Honor the artists wishes, or don't commission them at all.

If you see yourself editing other's art more often than leaving it be. It's better to just ASK before you even commission them. If not move on and don't commission them. It's just bad form to do so without permission.

I'm starting to get a bad taste in my mouth over this whole situation. :\

[jibacoil.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind a commissioner doing minor adjustments to something I drew them, but I can see where other people would find it disrespectful.

Ask the artist, because either way the corrections will get done and you can avoid stepping on toes.

[ariakitty.livejournal.com]

As an artist, I would prefer it if a client told me I messed up or missed a minor detail and allowed me to fix it. I can't say if I would mind the client editing my drawing since I have never had this happen. But I feel that since I was paid to draw the image it is my job to make sure the character looks correct. I think I would be a little upset if the client took matters into their own hands because I would feel like I handed off an incomplete picture.

[excessdenied0.livejournal.com]

When you commission an artist, you are paying them to draw for you. You are not actually buying a picture. It's a service, not really a physical purchase. That artist owns the finished work, so it's not your right to alter it.

Most artists put a lot of effort into making commissions look good for the customer... it's okay to ask them to change it for you because you paid them to do it right, but altering it yourself is not appropriate for a couple of reasons. It's insulting to the artist because they worked hard to make it what you want it to be, and by changing it without their permission you imply that you know better than they do how their job should be done. It's also legally inappropriate because the art is not your property, so it's a violation of copyright and it's kind of akin to vandalism.
You wouldn't repaint your neighbour's car, so why would you repaint his art?

If you really want something that specific, I would recommend hiring artists that are really detail oriented, and being very specific with your requests. It could be as simple as saying "Please eyedrop your colours from this example. I'd like them to match exactly, please!" Most artists would be happy to do that, and then you have nothing to change later.

[fionacat.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the fantastic legal rollercoaster that could potentially be Derivative work!

I'll let wikipedia explain it all; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

Got that?

Good, now it's VERY IMPORTANT to note that Derivative work is a legal defense, that means if the artist particular wants to they can still take you to court and it'll be up to a judge to decide if it's fair-use to do the changes that you've done.

+Edit : I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on television.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Responding to the edit, the answer on rights is very clear. A commission like this is freelance work, and the rights default to the artist if they're not negotiated beforehand: http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jan/1/241478.html

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I personally would not want my commissioners to go and change their images on their own. And you say "I take great care not to alter the quality of the artwork, and do my best to make it look as if it was never altered to begin with" but (no offense to your skills, at what level they may be at) just because you don't see a quality shift, it doesn't mean there isn't one. Especially because like people have explained, colours get affected by light and environment they are in, and just changing a colour darker and you may screw up the colourscheme and who knows what.

Personally like in your case, I'd always make sure with the artist that you get a WIP image before you pay the commission, and if for some weird reason they won't give you a WIP, ask for permission to alter the image right then at the start.