(no subject)

[ululare.livejournal.com]

Hi, everybody. I'm new to this community and relatively new to the world of commissioned artwork (as you'll probably be able to tell from this post), and I had a situation I was wondering if the more talented artists would be willing to review and assist me with. I know it's partially my fault because I could have cut it off already, but at this point I'm a little nervous about the whole thing...so:

I became an acquaintance of someone who lives in my town, a man of about 60 years of age, and he seemed very nice and interested in my artwork (I have some drawings hanging up in the library I work in). He was very polite and quiet but enthusiastic and asked me if I would meet with him sometime to discuss a project that he had in mind that involved drawing, something I could contribute with. Phone numbers were exchanged and I called him, and we met for coffee.

He seemed very polite, still enthusiastic, and told me that so far the project he has in mind is still developing and he didn't want to tell me too much because he was afraid that it would affect the creative process. Kind of weird, but whatever? The concepts he gave me to draw were fairly simple and not at all limiting, so I told him I would do some sketches. I told him it would take me a while because I've already been commissioned to do a mural, and he said okay. I asked him if a week or two would be okay, and he said that was fine, to call him when I had something to show him.

Cool, right?

But then he started calling me himself. He called me once, and left a voicemail that was a little irritating, I think it started with, "Hellloooo, earth to ululare....hellooooo", which was irritating in its own right. I called him back, no answer. Two more voicemails, each getting a little more annoying - "I seem to recall I met a beautiful, talented girl who I asked to draw some things for me..." - "Earth to Astronaut ululare...come in...!".

I called him back but never got him, twice, then gave up for the weekend. Yay, Monday.

So he shows up at my other job, at the local grocery store. He stands in front of the door to the desk I work at and blocks the way for my coworkers manning the safe, asks me questions about why I haven't called him more and if I have anything to show him, and what have I been up to, and why am I so busy? In the meantime, I'm dealing with customers, doing my job, answering the phone, trying to understand what he's asking over transactions, and trying to convey my apologies via my eyes to my coworker who keeps having to ask him to move out of the way. He said he wanted to meet on Friday to see what I had done. I said, okay, I'll think about it and see what I have to do, and he said he'd call me. I planned on calling him tomorrow to ask him to let me finish the mural and contact him when that was done, removing a lot of stress from my life and our interactions.

Only he showed up at my job again today. He told me I looked sad. Cute, but sad. I was put off from the beginning, my heart sank the instant I saw him, and I'm sure he could tell I was a little resentful. He kept telling me I looked sad, like he wanted me to pour my heart out to him, although I told him I was just tired. He asked me if I was on drugs, and I almost lost it at that point. I told him that I needed to finish the mural, so with my apologies I would have to postpone our meeting. He couldn't seem to understand that the mural needed to be done to generate publicity for a future event, "That's not until September, why does it need to be done now?". I was getting irritated and it was beginning to show. I told him that I needed to get back to work and that I had made arrangements to do the mural first, it's half done, and they're paying me. He has not mentioned money at all, and I need to finish the mural, because, well...it's my responsibility? It came first. They're paying me. They've already paid me an advance. I don't see what's not to get.

So what does he say as he leaves?

"I'll call you."

I have no idea what to do except say, "Sorry, I would prefer if we forget about this entire thing, I've signed no contract and there has been no word of payment. You can take the sketches I did, and do whatever you want with them, as long as you leave me alone."

I have no experience with things like this. If I was a boy, I know he wouldn't be treating me like this, calling me "cutie-pie" or "beautiful". I don't need anyone calling me beautiful. Maybe he thinks he's just complimenting me, but it makes me so uncomfortable.



But I don't know if I'm overreacting. My flist says I'm not, my family doesn't seem to think it's a big deal (his behavior). I'm really grateful to anyone who has even read this far, let alone thoughtful enough to comment for me. I'm really sorry this got so long. I don't mean to be whiny. I'm just a little worried. Thanks for reading, really!

EDIT: I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. You're all wonderful and you all had some great points. My boss(es)/coworkers have all been made aware of the situation. I'm almost afraid the guy will come to bodily harm. I haven't called him because I haven't heard or seen him. I'm hoping it stays that way - forever! But I will update if something does happen, good or bad.

Comments

[canis-ridens.livejournal.com]

What eveshka said. I'll add the suggestion that, once you tell him to stop contacting you, *do not* respond at all to calls, voicemails, emails, texts, etc. Do save any such voicemails and the like- the police will need them. If he shows up at work again, send a manager instead, and go to the cops. If you respond after seven voicemails and four phone calls, you're rewarding his harassing behavior with contact, and he'll just escalate the next time.

Some random points:

- If you get a bad feeling, trust your gut, even if the person didn't actually do anything beyond give off a bad vibe.

- Unless you've deliberately misstated the ages and this guy is actually your minor-aged child, you do not owe him or any other random person one iota of your time or attention, and deciding not to engage with someone does not make you mean, a bitch, frigid, or any variation thereof. Even if he had paid you or were a legitimate customer at your store, there are still limits to how he's allowed to contact you and address you.

- I have relatives with the same attitude as your family. Mine are lacking in the empathy and social skills departments, and have no business whatsoever offering opinions on acceptable interpersonal behavior. I'd personally interpret someone thinking this guy's behavior wasn't inappropriate as a sign that any advice from them should be ignored, now and in the future.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Geeeeeez. That's a billion levels of creepy.

Does he know where you live? If he doesn't, make sure he doesn't follow you home. If he does try to do that, call the authorities. If he does know where you live, make sure your security system is up to date and possibly get a weapon if you feel it necessary.

Don't call or contact this guy in any way from your end. Ignore his attempts at indirect contact. Next time he comes into direct contact, tell him to shove off with witnesses in case things go bad. If there aren't any witnesses, get to a populated place immediately.

I also find it strange that your family doesn't think this is a big deal. It is a huge deal! Try to make them understand you feel threatened if you can.

Please let us know how this turns out as well. Good luck and be safe!

[ululare.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I think that because I live in such a tiny town, it doesn't seem weird to them to run into someone everywhere. I don't think they understand the really creepy additions to the whole thing, like how delibrate he is.

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

I hardly ever leave comments in this community but I'm gonna leave one this time. I've had annoyingly similar things happen to me. What is he doing is NOT okay (but he may have no clue its not okay.) Here's my advice.

Don't wait for him to call you. Call him, and if he doesn't answer (which might be ideal), leave him a message saying you're sorry, but you cannot work on his project after all. If he asks why, just say you don't have time to work it into your schedule like you had previously thought. If he presses for more after that, just say something like, "I'm sorry, I've really gotta get going now. Oh, and please don't try and talk to me while I'm working. I can get into trouble with my boss." Be clear, be quick, hang up. You owe him no in-depth "reason" whatsoever.

Talk to your boss and let them know what's up and that you've asked him not to come in and try and talk to you while you're working. You might be able to work out a plan so they can help you out should he return anyways. Letting them know about it may also help you not actually get into trouble too, just in case they think you're wanting him to talk to you.

But yeah. Cutting him off with the project -should- have him stop calling and showing up at your workplace but from how this guy sounds he very well might keep calling and drilling you about "what's wrong" or whatever. Once you end the project initially, do not answer his calls or call him again. Least amount of communication the better. Yeah, not returning his calls might have him show up at your workplace BUT you'll have that already planned out with your boss. :)

Very best of luck dealing with this guy. He doesn't sound like a -terrible- person but I know the type. Don't feel bad for cutting him off and getting some distance from him. That is something I've had to fight myself on with my own experiences. Allowing it to continue will only make it harder for -him- to understand that he needs to back off.

[arphalia.livejournal.com]

Oh! And the reason I said to call him at all is so that there is a clear end point to the project. Sometimes with people like this, if there is no switch point from project-ON to project-OFF they could be more persistent about trying to figure out what is going on. Also, you wouldn't have to worry about telling him its off when he calls/shows up at work (in other words, telling him this when the timing is bad for you.)

[linksage.livejournal.com]

This is so absolutely inappropriate. I'm actually frightened FOR you, to be honest.

Talk to your boss (?) about what is going on with this guy. Next time he comes in to your work to confront you, have someone there with you and tell him that you do not feel comfortable working for him at this point and that you would appreciate it if he would not contact you again. Do not give him the sketches, or quote him for them, or anything, because I feel like that would only invite more contact from him.

If he continues these inappropriate, dare I say stalker-type advances, I might consider contacting the police and filing a report. He sounds like a grade-a creeper (not trying to toss around names mods, just don't know the 'proper' term for it).

[ululare.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I am hoping he got the point about the mural, and will wait for me to contact him (which will never happen) and then get the point. If he ever comes into work again I feel obligated to tell him that his behavior is inappropriate, regardless of whether or not I'm working on the project for him. His probably made-up project ;_;

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

Echoing what's already been said. It's difficult to say whether his over friendly attitude is just how he is, his award was of dealing with young girls, or if it has a more sinister motive. But turning up at your work place to talk about the project is not cool.

In a way it's fortunate that you haven't been paid because then you would be in a situation where you felt obliged to continue working with him.

Anyways, good luck in resolving the issue!

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

Seconding xelestri a million, billion times. There is no excuse for him harassing you at work and calling you inappropriate things.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

It might be he's just an old guy with no idea how to talk to young women, though when I thought about it, he's only 60. My dad is just a shade off of 60 and in no way shape or form would he ever think it was acceptable to talk to a young woman that way. A 60 year old 20 years ago, maybe, but not today I wouldn't think.

So to me I can only think...creeper. Maybe he's not going to do anything awful but he's still a creeper and you want him out of your life.

Personally I'd tell him you're not doing the project for him because showing up at your work like that was totally unacceptable, and you don't want further contact. Tell him over the phone or in a public place, just in case. And as the others above said, be sure to tell your coworkers and boss(es) about the situation, etc. Good luck!

[hikitsune.livejournal.com]

being old isn't an excuse for sexual harassment and stalking.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

I don't think wolf_goat was using it as an excuse, just trying to figure out this guy's logic.

[pan-h-shiroi.livejournal.com]

Cut him off, as fast as possible. You might tell him that you're not interested in the project anymore and that you don't have any interest to keep in touch with him, either. But to be honest, I think he's not seriously interested in working with you anyway, he really seems more like he has some ... personal interest in you.

You already mentioned that you thought it was a little strange that he didn't want to tell you too much about his project ... and it's not only strange, it's something that would make me suspicious.

The way I see it this guy is not only creepy, but he seems like a ticking time bomb. Be careful on your way home from work and, if necessary, involve the police if that guy won't leave you alone.
Good luck. :/ Keep us updated on this, will you?

[amarafox.livejournal.com]

I am getting extreme stalker vibes from this one. I'd totally drop it like a hot potato and block his number.

[starinthegutter.livejournal.com]

A lot of the responses I've read here seem easier said than done- while I'm all for 'have nothing more to do with him', the likelihood of his complying with your wishes based on the behavior you described seems slim. Let your coworkers/boss know what this guy is doing, and be very very careful. There's a chance it will blow over, but it's going to take some time. Advise him that you've been very busy and you can't do any work for him at this time. Be professional about it and don't be rude to him or have a rude undertone when you speak to him. The nicer and more confident you are about this, the less likely he will try to bait you into argument or want to harass you later on.

[the-vol.livejournal.com]

While I agree with most of this, I think it might not be a smart move to use the "too busy at the moment" excuse to end the transaction. It might only encourage the man to try to contact the OP again later or try to assure them that the project can wait or something like that. While the man might not have sinister intentions, he is being very inappropriate and the less he has leeway to try to weasel his way back in contact, the better.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Totally agreeing. From personal experience, people like this guy interpret "I'm too busy right now" as "Keep harassing me and eventually I'll give in." They don't get hints at all, so you have to be rather blunt with them sometimes. "Please find someone else to do your project, and do not contact me any further" leaves a lot less wiggle room in interpretation.

[solalia.livejournal.com]

This is why I never meet with clients alone. I always take my husband with me. If you have a brother or male friend who would be willing to go with you to meet with clients in the future, it might be a good plan. There are more creeps out there than a lot of people realize, and many of them seem perfectly well-intentioned at first. I would make sure from now on you are never alone with this guy. Tell him in no uncertain terms you aren't going to work for him and don't want him to contact you again. If he asks why tell him showing up at your work was unacceptable, etc. If he's not a creep and just socially awkward, you'll be doing him a favor by telling him what is considered unacceptable behavior. But everything about this guy screams "creep" to me.

Family members often don't understand and will try to sweep this kind of stuff under the rug. I've been in a similar situation before, and it wasn't until he started calling my parents looking for me that they realized that I wasn't just imagining his behavior.

[puritikoneko.livejournal.com]

The only other thing I have to add to the other words of wisdom is that if I were you, not only would I cut off contact, but I'd be sure to tell him WHY.

While there's no doubt that he's definitely being creepy and stalkerish, he may be under the impression that you don't see his actual intentions, or perhaps he has no ill-intentions in the first place. In either case, making your discomfort in his actions and attitude known may get the point across to him.

"I'm aware of what you're trying to pull, and I'm not falling for it, so you need to back off." or "this kind of behavior isn't appropriate in any circumstance, and you need to cut it out because it makes you look like a total creeper!" (perhaps not in those exact words)

In any case, I wish you the very best of luck, a lot of good advice has been given. Please keep us updated on your situation!

[semisonicstar.livejournal.com]

His behavior reeks of creep to me. There is *no* excuse to corner you like that at your job, when you can't reasonably deal with the intrusion of privacy. Cut contact asap in my opinion, be blunt, tell him to never contact you again.

[chronidu.livejournal.com]

If anything you have been under-reacting over all of this and ten times more polite than he deserves. I second all the notions of get the fuck away from this guy. Severe all contact, make it firm and clear you don't want his project, his money, or his friendship in any way. Make it clear if he continues to harass you, be it by phone, email, or in person, that you WILL call the authorities.

If you continues to harass you, Act on your warning. Contact the authorities, let them know. As it is, you should tell both of your bosses at your jobs about him and his harassment of you.

[missicee.livejournal.com]

"He seemed very polite, still enthusiastic, and told me that so far the project he has in mind is still developing and he didn't want to tell me too much because he was afraid that it would affect the creative process. Kind of weird, but whatever?"


That is ABSOLUTELY weird. It sounds to me like he was just making shit up as he went along because honestly, since when does telling people details about what their art will be used for "affect the creative process?" If anything, knowing what it's going towards HELPS the creative process by giving it a clear direction.

This guy sounds like bad news and I honestly would have been wary after just that. Echoing what people have said a million times over to drop the project and alert coworkers and even just friends to the situation. If he is persistent, do NOT hesitate to call the police...

[enter-data-here.livejournal.com]

The only opinion that matters here is YOURS. If YOU feel uncomfortable, then cut it off. It doesn't matter how other people view the situation, or his behavior, what matters is that YOU are the one involved, and YOU are NOT comfortable.

So please, yes, cut off contact if you feel uncomfortable. There's a lot of great advice already on how to go about it, but DO be sure that your boss/supervisors especially know that you don't want contact with this man and that you have/intend on letting him know so, so that if he comes in and starts bothering you they can help you out. Especially if the police need to be involved.

And it's been from my experience that older men are after something, I won't say what cause it's pretty obvious what I mean. Just about every man in his 50's-60's that ever approached me/was overly friendly with me always ended up asking me out or just blatantly making sexual advances. This has happened on SEVERAL occasions and I NEVER flirted with them or gave them any idea I was interested in them other than just being polite and friendly. I mean in cases like this guy, not every older man. But I would not consider his behavior in this case appropriate or "just friendly" at all.

[dave-t-wolfe.livejournal.com]

If you have a friend that is a police officer, set up another meeting with him and have your friend go with you as a "business associate". The present him with a invoice for him to sign (consulting fees, hourly wages and the amount he needs to pay upfront for you to continue working with him. Also a start time for the project (after your current artistic job) and a set exit date.

If he calls you "cutie" or any other such name, have your friend tell him to stop. If he starts mouthing off to your friend, then your friend can reveal that he is a cop and go from there.

I really feel he will either walk way when you have someone else there or he will run when he finds out your friend is a cop. Too many red flags are up on this situation.

[stormslegacy.livejournal.com]

A little late but thought I'd add my voice too: Your gut knows better than the advice of almost everyone. Sadly, most people want to believe that bad people "look" a certain way, like they have shifty eyes or evil looking scars like in Disney movies. They don't. They look like everyone else. If he's giving you bad vibes, it's probably because he's a bad man.

For the record, he shows a distinct lack of caring about your boundaries. I'm surprised anyone would think that behavior appropriate. I would cut him off. Don't quote him a high price as suggested by some because if he meets it he may try to make you feel obligated to deal with him. Accept no strings to such people.