(no subject)

[ululare.livejournal.com]

Hi, everybody. I'm new to this community and relatively new to the world of commissioned artwork (as you'll probably be able to tell from this post), and I had a situation I was wondering if the more talented artists would be willing to review and assist me with. I know it's partially my fault because I could have cut it off already, but at this point I'm a little nervous about the whole thing...so:

I became an acquaintance of someone who lives in my town, a man of about 60 years of age, and he seemed very nice and interested in my artwork (I have some drawings hanging up in the library I work in). He was very polite and quiet but enthusiastic and asked me if I would meet with him sometime to discuss a project that he had in mind that involved drawing, something I could contribute with. Phone numbers were exchanged and I called him, and we met for coffee.

He seemed very polite, still enthusiastic, and told me that so far the project he has in mind is still developing and he didn't want to tell me too much because he was afraid that it would affect the creative process. Kind of weird, but whatever? The concepts he gave me to draw were fairly simple and not at all limiting, so I told him I would do some sketches. I told him it would take me a while because I've already been commissioned to do a mural, and he said okay. I asked him if a week or two would be okay, and he said that was fine, to call him when I had something to show him.

Cool, right?

But then he started calling me himself. He called me once, and left a voicemail that was a little irritating, I think it started with, "Hellloooo, earth to ululare....hellooooo", which was irritating in its own right. I called him back, no answer. Two more voicemails, each getting a little more annoying - "I seem to recall I met a beautiful, talented girl who I asked to draw some things for me..." - "Earth to Astronaut ululare...come in...!".

I called him back but never got him, twice, then gave up for the weekend. Yay, Monday.

So he shows up at my other job, at the local grocery store. He stands in front of the door to the desk I work at and blocks the way for my coworkers manning the safe, asks me questions about why I haven't called him more and if I have anything to show him, and what have I been up to, and why am I so busy? In the meantime, I'm dealing with customers, doing my job, answering the phone, trying to understand what he's asking over transactions, and trying to convey my apologies via my eyes to my coworker who keeps having to ask him to move out of the way. He said he wanted to meet on Friday to see what I had done. I said, okay, I'll think about it and see what I have to do, and he said he'd call me. I planned on calling him tomorrow to ask him to let me finish the mural and contact him when that was done, removing a lot of stress from my life and our interactions.

Only he showed up at my job again today. He told me I looked sad. Cute, but sad. I was put off from the beginning, my heart sank the instant I saw him, and I'm sure he could tell I was a little resentful. He kept telling me I looked sad, like he wanted me to pour my heart out to him, although I told him I was just tired. He asked me if I was on drugs, and I almost lost it at that point. I told him that I needed to finish the mural, so with my apologies I would have to postpone our meeting. He couldn't seem to understand that the mural needed to be done to generate publicity for a future event, "That's not until September, why does it need to be done now?". I was getting irritated and it was beginning to show. I told him that I needed to get back to work and that I had made arrangements to do the mural first, it's half done, and they're paying me. He has not mentioned money at all, and I need to finish the mural, because, well...it's my responsibility? It came first. They're paying me. They've already paid me an advance. I don't see what's not to get.

So what does he say as he leaves?

"I'll call you."

I have no idea what to do except say, "Sorry, I would prefer if we forget about this entire thing, I've signed no contract and there has been no word of payment. You can take the sketches I did, and do whatever you want with them, as long as you leave me alone."

I have no experience with things like this. If I was a boy, I know he wouldn't be treating me like this, calling me "cutie-pie" or "beautiful". I don't need anyone calling me beautiful. Maybe he thinks he's just complimenting me, but it makes me so uncomfortable.



But I don't know if I'm overreacting. My flist says I'm not, my family doesn't seem to think it's a big deal (his behavior). I'm really grateful to anyone who has even read this far, let alone thoughtful enough to comment for me. I'm really sorry this got so long. I don't mean to be whiny. I'm just a little worried. Thanks for reading, really!

EDIT: I just wanted to thank everyone for their advice. You're all wonderful and you all had some great points. My boss(es)/coworkers have all been made aware of the situation. I'm almost afraid the guy will come to bodily harm. I haven't called him because I haven't heard or seen him. I'm hoping it stays that way - forever! But I will update if something does happen, good or bad.

Comments

[xelestri.livejournal.com]

If your gut is telling you this is wrong, then it is, period. It doesn't matter if your family thinks you're overreacting, because they don't have to live with it on a level that you do. If you are uncomfortable, then cut communication with the guy. The guy is sexually harassing you, bare minimum, and that's not cool.

ETA: Him showing up at your job and asking if you're sad and on drugs is way too far. I'd cut contact as soon as possible. That kind of thing can get you potentially fired, and is really, really inappropriate.

Since you haven't taken any money, I'd just say that everything was off, and that you don't appreciate him showing up at your job to harass you about working for him.

This doesn't even touch the inappropriate nicknames he's giving you.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

I wanted to hurl when he called me cutie-pie. I almost said something then and there but - I was at work. I felt kind of trapped at that point!

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

1. That's creepy as fuck
2. Best thing is to cut off contact, I'd just give him what you have done and tell him "do not bother me again".

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

This man either lacks a clear understanding of boundaries, or he either knows what the boundaries are but chooses to ignore him.

While your family may see your behaviour as not inappropriate, he has harassed you at work, contacted you several times against your wishes and made unwanted advances along with treating you in a patronizing manner. Maybe I'm being a little quick to judge, but this seems like it's not... about a business transaction at all, and just a way for an older man to have (or demand, if you prefer) the attention of a younger woman.

Don't let him have the sketches for free. While you may just want him out of your hair, it's essentially rewarding bad behaviour. Send him an invoice for your time - then cut off all contact. Block his number or save it on your phone as "do not answer." Try to make your family see your point of view, they'd probably treat it differently if this was a young man hassling you but why should his age give him a free pass? I really wish you the best of luck in this awkward situation.

[komickrazi.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Send him a quote for his project, and feel free to invoice him for consulting services. Tell him you will not touch pencil to paper until you see some money.

Right now he's harassing you for free art.

[ocelotish]

If you don't like it, cancel. Right now, there's no commitment one either side, so you can call it off at a moment's notice.

Whether or not it's too much for you to deal with is really up to you, but I'd say he's unlikely to get better. If you want to try again, set firm dates. If he doesn't stick to those, just apologize and say that you are not the artist for the job.

You can also ask him more about where this project is going and give him a quote of what it would be worth to you, including what it would be worth to put up with him acting the way he is. Just make sure that you're actually willing to deal with him for the quoted amount.

[xelestri.livejournal.com]

And totally feel free to quote a high price to put him off, IMO.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

You are absolutely not overreacting. His behavior is absolutely inappropriate. (Regardless of age, but if you are young enough to be his daughter? Double the creepy factor.) Your family may not see anything wrong, but I highly disagree. You are uncomfortable, and you absolutely do not have to put up with that even with a paying customer.

You are likely going to have to put your foot down on this. Tell him you were PAID to do the mural and it is going to come first before anything else.

But you know, if it were me, I would just cut him off completely and state that he is to not come to your job to bug you, period. If he does, you are going to your supervisor and/or calling the cops. Honestly? Him just showing up at your job more than once is enough of a red flag for me.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm way younger than he is. I think I'll cut him off completely too =(

[splatterhouse.livejournal.com]

This man is a creepy, sexist, entitled stalker. Nothing good will come of this. Do not give him the sketches, tell him you're not interested and to leave you alone, and warn him you will call the police if he shows up again. Not one part of this is okay, in any fashion.

[zanazibar.livejournal.com]

This. This X 100. I wouldn't be surprised if he's gotten away with harassing young ladies in the past and that's why he seems so oblivious to common courtesy-guys with a sense of entitlement like that, whether they're 20 or 80, are ticking temper bombs, especially if they feel they're "being really nice" to you. Drop it like it's burning your hand, I say.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Tell him in any format you like, that you'd prefer not to have contact with him any further.

I can see how most people would find his behavior the typical "harmless nosy old man" but honestly, this sounds a little more then that. He shouldn't be harassing you, or coming to your workplace. He should not be leaving such irritating messages on your phone. He should absolutely not be making comments like "cutie pie" and "beautiful". He's a complete stranger, not your doting grandpa.

So yes, tell him that you cannot take his proposed work, and that you'd like him to stop contacting you. Sometimes people can become fixated like he seems to be, and the further they're strung along, the harder it will be to distance yourself from him. So be upfront.

[crimson-flygon.livejournal.com]

If he hasn't paid you and may not pay you at all you should cut off contact with him asap. If this is how he is behaving in only the beginning stages of the project it's not going to get any better, and frankly someone (let alone a 60 year old) repeatedly showing up at your places of employment and calling you pet names is inappropriate, and a little unsettling. I'd highly advise taking the course of action you suggested, telling him you are no longer interested, only give him the sketches if he doesn't react in a terrible way to this. If he continues to seek you out in public tell him or have a friend/co worker tell him he needs to leave you alone.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

It sucks because I live in the tiniest town ever, so asking him to avoid the store altogether would probably be problematic, but if he could just stay away from me? That'd be nice. Thankfully I work somewhere where my supervisors would be more than willing to help me out in talking to him.

[theflamecrow.livejournal.com]

Not over reacting, dude is getting pretty creepy..... I'd stop just based on that.

[blackberrypie.livejournal.com]

I'd be seriously weirded out. He has no right to harass you at home, or cause problems with your other jobs. I'd firmly let him know this is unacceptable behavior and that YOU will contact HIM when you have something or for him to give you more details because it seems like hes just stringing you along. If he doesn't get a clue then get compensation for your work thus far if he wants the sketches. If not, then just wash your hands of it. But I wouldn't give him anything. You have no obligation to do anything for him.

[wingsofjudas.livejournal.com]

If nothing else happened, simply having a client/potential client/art contact/whatever come and bug me at work would have me drawing a line in the sand. Unless it's some sort of emergency, I don't even let friends or relatives do that. But this was also rather creepy and beyond professional. He strikes me as either unbearably socially awkward or flat out aggressive. Either way, it's not your fault and it's no excuse, that crap has to stop. The bottom line is if you are uncomfortable, it;s your say. Though I should think anyone would feel the same in your position.

I think it's absolutely the right thing to do to cut contact. Sometimes being too nice to folks like that gives them the wrong idea and you don't want to go further if "red flags" are already going up.

Also, for any future (unrelated) art situations, I've taken from this community that it's always best to get down to business and get compensation or a contract before even doing sketches. That way you don't put a bunch of time and effort into something and get screwed, even if it's "just sketches". If things go awry, you can always refund (be it for all or simply unfinished portion of the work). But that's kind of beside the point. Yes, this guy would put me off too, seems like the type that would up at your window with a boombox over his head. ;P

[ululare.livejournal.com]

OMGGGG I would probably barf on him. And then run away.

[megumi-kitten.livejournal.com]

That guy is stepping over boundaries, not understanding other priorities you might have and acting more like a 'friend' than this is a business deal.

I'd politely tell him that you can't provide what he wants (art or friendship wise) and that you need to focus on your jobs, art or otherwise. And that you don't appreciate him showing up to chat while you are on the clock, nor do you appreciate him calling at all random times.

Also, the calling you beautiful, cutie pie? That is unacceptable to.

He either needs to treat this like a commision, a business deal, or you will walk away.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

yyyyyyeeeeaaaaah that's creepy as fuck. cut off the work for him and cut all contact with him. block his phone number. If he approaches you again, tell your manager or someone who can do something about it that he is harassing you. you shouldn't have to deal with that anywhere, especially at work.

[poprock-grey.livejournal.com]

Sounds like he is hunting for more then just art. :I

I would politely ask him to leave you alone from here on out. I would also keep a journal of when he comes to bug you/call you. You may need it in the future if it gets to a point of needing a restraining order. I'm afraid that might happen, because he tracked you down to your second job...

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Refund him and tell him to never contact you again. He's gone way over the line, and if you see him at your work again, call for your manager. That's completely inappropriate, and he's not treating you like a professional adult woman by any stretch.

[casteddreams.livejournal.com]

I don't think he ever paid her yet actually. So yeah, he really needs to back off for sure.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

Drop it like it's hot!

He's a creeper. Why is he calling you? Why is he showing up to your place of work and bothering you? Why is he saying you're cute? I have some bold assumptions, but I'll keep them to myself. Just ditch him. There's no contract, he hasn't paid you, whatever. If he mouths off the only people who would believe him are the type not worth working with anyway.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

At first it made sense for him to call me just to check up on things, but the actual VOICEMAILS (which started from the first call) were what really freaked me out. Especially when he kept calling - hasn't anyone ever been too busy to call someone right back? Ah!

Yeah, I mean, I know I'm cute. I know he MIGHT just think he's complimenting, but I don't need anyone telling me things I already know unless they're actually dating me. Blah.

[bailzzararco.livejournal.com]

I also don't think you're over-reacting. He's clearly out of bounds. If you don't want to go the way of telling him off, maybe you can just say you have recently become over-whelmed with life issues and just can not work on his project, and that you're very sorry. If he presses for what that is, just say anything, someone in the family passed away, your best friend is in a messy divorce, your little sister is being harrassed at work by an ex, you were witness to a major accident...whatever. He isn't entitiled to truth or anything else for that matter.

Is there anyone at all who can back you up? A co-worker? A preferrably large friend who will tell him for you? I find the lack of support from your family pretty unsettling.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

The assistant manager is a giant football-player type guy, I am seriously contemplating asking him to ask this guy to leave, especially because assistant-manager is young, fit, and very quiet and calm, so he's super intimidating :(

And exactly! It's my life. He doesn't have any right to any part of my life that doesn't pertain to his project. His probably imaginary project :(

[ursulav.livejournal.com]

You are not overreacting.

Take whatever little voice says "But I don't want to be meeeeaan...." and stomp it to the curb. This is wildly inappropriate behavior. You do NOT show up at people's work to make demands of them. He's acting seriously out of line, your family is nuts if they don't see it--do not, under any circumstances, continue contact.

This is not a dude who wants to get art from you. This is a dude who wants to have weird human contact with you. He is not acting in any way shape or form like a commissioner, he's acting like a batshit stalker in the making. Tell him you're not comfortable with his behavior and you would prefer he not call you again.

I am sorry to say that there is a good chance this will ultimately end up with you trying to get a restraining order, unless he gets bored and wanders off somewhere. Seriously, though--this is bad mojo, cut it off now, this is not a job, this is a guy trying to have a weirdass relationship with you. Run away!

[monogato.livejournal.com]

As soon as I read that he showed up at your work, I was like OH HELL NAW. That is totally unacceptable to be interrupting you at your job. If he ever EVER does this again, you need to be firm and tell him you have a job to do and he can talk to you when you aren't on the clock, and call your supervisor if he doesn't leave you alone. Honestly, I would call off the transaction as it is - sounds like a total creeper. You don't have to allow this kind of behavior from a customer - whether it be for your art or at ANY job. Sexual harassment - which calling you "beautiful" or "cutie" IS - is not acceptable from anyone!

[ululare.livejournal.com]

The first time he showed up I was annoyed and frustrated. The second time, and he said, "I can't believe I ran into you here twice in two days!" I wanted to stab him in the eye with my pencil and scream at him, "I WORK HERE THIS IS MY JOB DO YOU SEE MY UNIFORM".

Plus, yeah. Cutie-pie? What? No.

[yikesonabike.livejournal.com]

I haven't really seen any responses here that I've agreed with. I've had a VERY similar personal experience with a stalker at my workplace, and although you might be inclined to do something more polite, I can only urge you to do the following.

1. Do not attempt to contact him. The next time he calls, shows up, or has any contact with you at all, firmly tell him that you are no longer interested in the project or maintaining any further contact. No matter what he says, just tell him no. Don't give him any room to argue. Even if he offers you a substantial amount of money, decline. If he is making you THAT uncomfortable, getting money from him is only going to make him feel like you owe him attention or affections.

2. If he contacts you a second time, inform him that you will be calling the police if he attempts to contact you again. You can get a non-emergency police number and program it into your phone in case this happens.

3. Tell your boss or supervisors at work. If he is pursuing you at work, they can help keep him away and reinforce the idea that you don't want him around. Ask them to make sure that they say YOU don't want him around, rather than telling him the company doesn't want him around. If you have to walk to your car at night, make sure that someone walks with you if you feel at all uncomfortable. Telling your boss will also mean that you have further proof that you didn't want him around if the police need to come by. In the case that they get called, they're going to want proof that he wasn't being lead on. (Because they're assholes like that.) If your supervisors are there to say that you asked them to keep him away, it'll help a lot.

4. Be careful not to give him any more information about you - nothing at all. Things like where you live and what car you drive are obvious, but also don't tell him when you take your break at work, what days you work, what time you get off, etc.

If you have any questions or need help, feel free to contact me. You can email me at jmlones@gmail.com and I'll give you any info you might need to get this guy out of your hair. There's no excuse for his behavior and he needs to learn that it's not okay to treat anyone that way, woman or otherwise.

[doirn.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you saw this! I was going to send it to you, it reminded me a lot of what you said you went through.

I agree wholeheartedly with what you've said here.

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

*EXACTLY* like the creeper guy I dealt with recently. D: Shukivengeance put it best, but seriously cut him off. Tell him you do not wish to do business with him anymore and that he is not to contact you again, either at work or on the phone. Block his number if you can and, if he insists on contacting you after that, tell him that you will take legal action (i.e. restraining order.) But don't threaten legal action unless you're really willing to go through it and don't use it as your first option of attack. Chances are, he will quit after you tell him to bug off.

[Edit] I'm saying this from the experience I've had with my creepy stalker guy. There are a lot of other pieces of good advice in this post, so if you feel that one is better than another, go with it.

[eveshka.livejournal.com]

What Yikes said up there.
Now, let me ask a few things.

Are you of legal age? If not, run, do not walk to the Police Station and make it Known that you are being harassed. Over legal age? Walk to the Police Station.

Check the local listing for sexual predators. Is he on it? File for harassment immediately.

If I were you (and I'm over legal age) I'd tell him in person, with trustworthy witnesses (ie: boss) with -my cell phone / digital camera running (voice the time and date) that there is to be no further contact as of this time/date, and that further attempts at contact can and will result in a restraining order. Name names, make it clear on the recording who is present (check local laws; you may have to do it in a public place to allow the recording without notifying him... or notify him) Then save that file. Make backups. Put an archive copy on the Cloud. Cover your ass.

And if he bothers you again, file a restraining order. They aren't that expensive.

Best of luck to you. Creepystalkers aren't fun.

[ululare.livejournal.com]

I'm 23, which is why I feel kind of pathetic because I feel like I walked right into this trap like a true idiot :(

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I didn't read the comments, so if this has already been suggested, I apologize.

I'd cut it off. He is being extremely creepy, and if he is following you to work and stuff, that's a huge no-no. Cut it off in a public place or over the phone. Not alone with him.

Let others know you have cut the deal, and tell your boss and co workers. Phone the police if he seems to still follow you or any any creepy comments what so ever. Do not see him alone or in a semi private, or private place.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

It's possible he's just a lonely old man desperate for someone to talk to.

But that does not excuse him relentlessly and inappropriately pursuing someone much younger than himself, especially at work. That is absolutely not acceptable, doubly so when he's interfering with your ability to do your job.

Even if he is just lonely, this is not behavior you should encourage in any form. It is creepy and stalkerish, and I am so sorry your family does not take your unease seriously.

Do not give him any work you've done. The next time he contacts you, tell him that you are unable to do the work for him. Period. Don't give him a reason why. People like him will take those excuses and find any possible loophole to exploit to continue their relationship with you.

Also I would recommend that you inform your coworkers of the situation. Not all the gory details, just let them know you are having trouble with this man and if they see him coming, could they please give you a heads-up so you can duck out. Or at least have someone stay right next to you at all times to keep too much creepy behavior from happening should this man approach you again. In the worst case, perhaps they could simply bar him from entering the premises. However it is handled, it never hurts to have other people looking out for you in situations like this. Having backup alone may be enough to get this guy to ease up on you.

Honestly? I know people like this, including a relative (who starts out as 'lonely old man' and then gets stalkerish and abusive), and those situations are best avoided. Please trust your instincts and bid this man adieu.

[copper-curls.livejournal.com]

I strongly recommend you to cut this short and have nothing further to do with him. If you haven't already, I would also speak with your supervisor and ask their assistance in preventing him from harassing you at work. Also, if there's been witnesses to his behaviour, and I gather there have - a co-worker at least - talk to them and find out if they'd be willing to go with you to the police to make a complaint about him. It's highly inappropriate and definitely sexually harassing.