HORRIBLE Fursuit Commission: NEED ADVICE

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

Ok guys, I really need help. This is my first real fursuit commission from a particular fursuit creator, and I need help!

Let me start with how it all went down:

I originally commissioned this person back in August 2011. Mind you, I did not know all of the fursuit creators that were out there, otherwise I would have commissioned a more well-renowned fursuit artist.

This girl has made other masks and fursuits, and from the photos, the work looked wonderful. But little did I know the true quality of the masks she made. :/

Keeping in contact with her was one of the hardest things from start to finish. There were times I did receive any e-mails from her for over a month's time. Mind you, I was constantly attempting to send multiple e-mails in hopes of her seeing it and responding.

Needless to say, she was purposefully avoiding me, and even admitted to this.

I originally gave her my first down-payment (of 100 bucks) for a fursuit partial back in Sept. or so of last year. I later decided I wanted a full suit, which she said she could do, but would take some time. She said it required an additional 150 dollar deposit (USD).

So, I went ahead and deposited it all, awaiting and hoping for a gorgeous fursuit of my fursona (Snow).

Needless to say, after that, getting in touch got harder and harder. I would not hear from her for weeks or months on end at times. Her excuses were school and stress, and other commissions. Which I understand things come up, but at least keep in touch with me and let me know, instead of avoiding me altogether. Mind you, she also admitted to purposefully avoiding me one time she did not contact me for a whole month. :/

Anyway, she finally got started on the costume in May of this year, only a month before Anthrocon. I wanted the suit in plenty of time before AC. I commissioned her in August, wanted it by the end of May.

She did not have enough time to make a fullsuit. Not only that, the work was rushed. The first head she made turned out horrible. Multiple times I asked and requested that we just cancel it altogether, that I get refunded my money, etc. However, she ignored me every time I requested to cancel the order (I should have just forced her to cancel it then), but I really wanted my fursona suit badly, and plus I am just too nice of a person, that I put up with her ignorance, and proceeded to let her remake the head, and finish the suit.

The second head she showed me looked nice from the photos. Little did I know how the quality of it really was. I paid my last 300 dollar payment, and received it just yesterday.

I cut open the box, and the head was way too small. The handpaws were way too large, but I could have put up with that. The head was so tight that it crunched around my head when trying to get it on. My parents warranted about me putting it on, but I attempted it anyway. They saw it was too small, but I was desperate for it to fit.

The hood had no zipper, it was just a flap held by little elastic strips which were hot glued to the fabric, not even sewn. It was a resin based head, but it was way too small. My head is a 22" circ., 9" hairline to chin... the head looked to fit a 20" max. head, with 6-7" hairline to chin. :/

Not only that, I requested a movable jaw with teeth. There were no teeth, and the jaw did not even move. Not only that, but the head was lined with silicone, which since she rushed was not cured, and it stunk. I was worried about breathing the stuff in and for my own safety and health. :(

The jaw was set with no hinges. It was not even one of those separate jaws. Instead, it was hot glued with foam... :( It just flopped there, and even when I did, I barely manage to get my head inside (with it being very tight), my chin resting on the foam could NOT push the lower jaw down to talk. It literally just flopped there. :/

The straps on the back I broke off attempting to get it on, which were again just hot glued. :/ It was horribly made, but worst off it did not even fit.

The pics and all looked great, but I never saw the back of the head (to see the straps), and I did not see how small it really was... it was just pics on a small head base. X_X

Now I am reaching out to you guys what to do?

I tried asking her for a refund, given with how diligent and all I have been through this all. She basically told me to try to sell it, or she would try to find someone who would take it, but she could not give me my money back unless we did. I am thinking she spent all the money I sent her already. I sent her the last 300 just this past Sun or so, so it was not that long ago. :(

When I explained to her why I no longer wanted it, she refused and denied the flaws in the suit or its design. She persisted to try to convince me that it was my fault for 'not putting it on right,' when I have fursuits (one other actually) that fits me fine from other fursuit creators. She continues to deny any responsibility for the flaws, and says it is my own doing. She also asked why I could not just let her fix 'the minor things,' when it is the whole head that is flawed... D:

I just want my money back... and I want to get my fursuit commissioned by the same person who made my other one (shown in my avatar icon, which that suit is awesome BTW!).

What do I do?!?!? I tried calling Paypal, and they said they could not dispute personal commissions or orders that were custom. :/

Comments

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

Pictures to prove your side would be good. Pictures of the notes exchanged, e-mails, pictures of the head, pictures of the damage, etc. Right now all we have is your word.

Also, hot glue and foam are pretty common in fursuit making. It doesn't mean that sometimes it is poor quality, but it's not unheard of.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

This isn't a beware; so proof isn't needed. They're just asking for advice on how to work things out with the suitmaker.

What if it's a beware of a commissioner?

[kaiidthvida]

I saw this thread and was wondering if there's a list or a way to let other fursuit makers know about commissioners who are difficult to work with. I have saved e-mails and such to help but don't know where to begin or if there's even a place for it. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[komickrazi.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't hurt to post a review of the artist here: http://fursuitreviews.livejournal.com/

Even if you can't resolve any of your problems, at least you can warn others.

[fernchu.livejournal.com]

I second this!

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

We finally came to an agreement. I feel there is no need, and she is now taking a break from fursuit making... O_O

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

Is that site updated anymore? I sent a review in a couple weeks ago and it's still not showing.

[fernchu.livejournal.com]

It's a very tricky situation, and I'm very curious to see the photos, and know who the maker is :/

You can try selling it...or you could scope out other makers to see if they can make adjustments to it. I know its more money, but if you are at least happy with how it looks perhaps it's not a horrible route to take...

That said, The maker should surely work with you though. It's totally irresponsible on their part to just deny everything, and it does sound like she's spent the money already.

Unfortunately with paypal out of the works (which yes sadly they don't cover custom items) there isn't a lot of other options to do...

[growly.livejournal.com]

Sadly it doesn't sound like there is anything you can do, and it sounds like trying to "fix" it would cost more in labor and materials than the costume is actually worth. :( I advise making a beware post with all the necessary documentation and leave reviews on the fursuitreviews LJ and the fursuitmakerreviews account on FA, so hopefully nobody else falls victim to this artist.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

I would advise making a beware post about this. I'm unsure what you can do about payment but if it's been under 45 days (or you paid with a credit card) for your last deposit you could try to dispute it with Paypal, they will more than likely rule in your favour. If it's beyond 45 days you can call your credit card company instead and they will dispute it.

If you want to give them a last chance - advise them you are going to make a beware post about them. It CAN sometimes make people get their act together to avoid the bad publicity, but don't count on it.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

If you can't wear it, I think the right thing to do would be to refund you in full. Unfortunately, I get the impression this isn't likely to happen-- since if the maker was honest they wouldn't have sent you a box of crap in the first place.

I think you should gather up some good, clear photos that show the problems and hoping they are shamed into doing the right thing. I think FA frowns upon call-out journals, but post them both here on A_B and for sure on http://www.furaffinity.net/user/fursuitmakerreviews

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Just a tiny nitpick, bolding using caps kinda makes the post sound aggressive. Not saying you're trying to be, but if you do write a full beware rather then an advice one, I would personally suggest editing it out. Sounding friendly, even if frustrated, is always a good plus on your side!

If you feel the need to bold, I'd say it's best to use a bold font, or I like to make it like -this-.

[nomsocks.livejournal.com]

This. That emphasis really bothered me through the whole thing.

UPDATE

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

Hey guys. I wrote this before some other things went down with said creator.

We did finally come to an agreement. After she settled down from coming off of her high horse, we were able to work out an agreement (finally D:).

She apologized for the way she acted, and for the suit not coming out well. I think she is also either taking a hiatus from fursuit making, or at least from taking commissions (she posted it in a Journal entry on her FA).

I did not know how things would work out, and I did not want to post an artist beware unless it really came down to it. I also did not want to say who it was, or post photos, possibly tracking back to her as I did not want to put her name under the bus unless I was really left with no choice.

I am not here to get revenge on her, I just wanted advice on how to get my money back for it. I am not getting all of it back, but she is taking the head back at least and will pay me 350 of the 550 I paid, which is fine. I can always sell the rest. The head she already posted attempting to sell it, but currently it is still in my possession.

She was not a bad person, but I think what happened is she initially thought I was just trying to be a pain in the arse customer who just 'did not like it,' when that was not the case at all. :/

I showed her videos, actually, that I posted on Youtube, which to me is better than just photos), and I recorded myself putting it on, showed her that me pressing down on the fabric (since my chin was almost on the jaw would not move it) and she could see how TIGHT the mask was around my entire head.

I could post the video here, but I mention her name in it, and for savings grace I would rather not, esp. since things did work out.

I do thank you all for your advice. As long as she continues to stick to her end of the bargain, then all is well. :)

Re: UPDATE

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I really think you need to say something anyway. Of course, talk about the arrangement you came to, but I'm getting strong vibes the only reason something happened was because you said something over here and... that's not cool, man. People should be nice to each other because that's the right thing to do, not because they fear retribution.

This is a pretty harsh example, but when you're caught shoplifting you don't get off the hook by going "oops sorry you caught me, I'll pay for it now". You still get in trouble, because you don't "accidentally" do really nasty things to other people.

And for what it's worth, I don't think that selling you an unwearable mask and expecting you to recoup your own $200 loss is an acceptable arrangement-- 1) it assumes you can sell it for that much, which is possibly unrealistic and 2) if it's as bad as you describe, that's not really very fair to the next person who buys it.

[rainbowcabbit.livejournal.com]

I would post a beware if I were you, that's really bad customer service.

[dizdzi.livejournal.com]

I feel that I should add, when I read through this and don't see a name, the only fursuit that really pops out here is the one in your avatar. Which is, as it seems, the only one you may have at this time? IF it isn't with this maker it might be best to mention so, because otherwise it brings on a little bit of negative light with them to other's perception. I don't personally assume it is this maker, seeing as they seem fairly well established I wouldn't assume they would use that school/stress excuse so many times and I haven't personally heard issues with them otherwise.

I think it might be best, if nothing else, to kind of bring a bit into light. I kind of agree with the others that it sounds like you might've gotten that refund because they were worried about this. Personally if I had a bad run-in with somebody and started to get a bad reputation because of it, I'd go out of my way to fix it and prove to others that it was a one-time thing. So it should hopefully help her so it won't happen more in the past. Or at least, you'd hope so. Unfortunately I know of a fair hand full of artists (both fursuit makers and otherwise) that have MANY bad run-ins left and right, and they aren't brought to light. So they just slide right past one and to another, boiling up this large batch of people that feel ripped off because they aren't changing things for the better.

[clockmagic.livejournal.com]

It wouldn't be the suit in their icon because that one I believe was won in an auction. =)

[obsidianwolfess.livejournal.com]

That person reeks of bad customer service. Dodging e-mails, claiming their suit had no flaws? I definitely would have wanted a beware post on this person. Just imagine if you weren't the only person she was doing that to. (Customer service has a tendency to repeat patterns..)

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I started to get scared when I was not getting a response in a month's time from her. Last I had heard from her before that incident, she was requesting my measurements. Welp, something came up which may have made it impossible for me to get the funds for my fullsuit, so I asked if I could just go the partial route instead of the fullsuit. I messaged her about it, and since I e-mailed her about it she would not respond to me at all for at least a month, if not longer (if you want the exact dates I could try and dig up the dates on the original e-mails). I messaged her once a week or so at least asking her when she was going to respond back, if she needed measurements or whatever for the fullsuit or partial, and all that time panicking when I heard nothing from her. :(

I finally heard from her when I threatened her that I would have to cancel the order and requested my $150 back at the very LEAST if she did not respond. At this point I had already auctioned for another fursuit (the fursuit that I am wearing in my avatar icon is the one I won in the auction. It is NOT the one I commissioned... that one does not even fit me. .w. I am going to now take my business elsewhere, preferably with the creator of the fursuit I am wearing in the pic, as she did an EXCELLENT job on the suit! :D).

It was only once I threatened to cancel completely she responded back to me. :/

And when she e-mailed me, she 'apologized,' and her excuses were school, other art projects, etc. But that is NO excuse to not at least contact someone. D: I mean hell, at times I would respond to one of her e-mails while in the midst of being at work, or if I was out I had access to my e-mail via my CELL PHONE, so there was always some way for me to contact her if needed. But she always found excuse after excuse to not contact me. .w.

I am just glad I made the decision to auction for the other fursuit. At least I have a decent fursuit to wear to Anthrocon. ;_;

[mgsfriedchicken.livejournal.com]

Bad customer service. Though you came to a resolution, post the beware so others will know what they're getting themselves into.

[kwolf13.livejournal.com]

This incident sounds strikingly similar to two others I read about recently.

One person commissioned a maker, was given the runaround for about a year or so, with at least three missed dead lines for Cons, and when it finally arrived, it was the day OF the Con, and it was in bad shape. The teeth had fallen out in transit, the crotch of the bodysuit irreparably ripped open when they crouched down, the moving jaw had sharp parts (because they used a wire hanger in it) that cut the wearer, and the jaw completely fell off eventually, and the worst part; the handpaws were on the wrong sides (left paw on right, right paw on left.)

The other incident, the person commissioned a maker, was given a runaround despite several inquiries for an update for almost 2 years, and they ended up just receiving the head (instead of the partial they wanted) for the Con they had made a dead line for, the head was packaged in a box WAY too small for it, so it retained the square shape, the eyes were uneven and looked terrible, and the markings were just drawn on with marker or paint instead of airbrushed or sewn.

This sounds very similar, and I'm wondering if it's the same maker. If it is, I think it's about time they had an official Beware posted against them. Because you'd be their third victim that we know of. Posting a Beware may get others to step forward.

Could you perhaps message me privately as to who the maker is?

[dizdzi.livejournal.com]

I know on the second incident that particular maker had a beware post made on them. I wonder if it got deleted though? I know I saw it somewhere. Is the first incident from the same person?

UPDATE:

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

Hello everyone.

I am posting a video where I show the fursuit head, and its flaws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIlYp2JHs-0

It is unlisted, so only anyone who views this journal entry can see it.

Re: UPDATE:

[xelestri.livejournal.com]

Just as a head's up, while you don't name the fursuit maker in this video, it's shown on the sidebar and is easily seen in your other videos.

Edit: After watching the entire video til the end, it seems this is intentional, so nevermind me. XD

[marymouse.livejournal.com]

Just a note... Her name is mentioned in your related videos. In her current FA journal, she's already mentioning to others that she will make stuff for them, and she's offering to sell your wolf head to someone else after airbrushing it.

This is why naming her in a beware/review might have been a good idea. Now an unsuspecting person may buy this cheaply made head and be disappointed.

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

I saw. I already messaged the person considering to purchase it privately. I also recommended some popular realistic fursuit creators to him, since he wanted a wolf fursuit from her. But I warranted on the head she offered him and linked him to all 3 videos I have of it, but leaving it up to him in the end.

This is probably how I will warn people about her at least until the transaction for the head goes through, and I can get my moneh back. I am starting to think she does not have the money though like she claimed. :/ She has not responded to any e-mails/comments about the money. If I don't hear from her soon, I will warn her again. :I

Mod post.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

We understand the community would like to see a beware on the suit maker in question, but the OP and the maker have come to an agreement and now the OP would rather not ruin the relationship with the maker by making a beware post. It is unfair to pressure the OP into which he does not want to do.

He is of course free to change his mind at any point and submit a beware to our moderated queue if he wishes.

Re: Mod post.

[snowcrystal84.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I am a she, but thank you. :) And I may post a beware after the transaction is over. But as it currently stands, as the mod states, I do not want to ruin the chance of ruining the relationship I have with her, esp. while trying to make sure I get my money back, etc. It could very well jeopardize this happening, which I do not want to do.

I plan to make either a beware or at the very least a fursuit review after all this is said and done. :)

[familliaraver.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you guys came to an agreement! Set a time frame for a refund and make them stick to it, if they have not refunded you already. I also would not mail the head back until they refund you. They may be planning on trying to sell the head to get the refund back..so what happens if it doesn't sell? Judging from the issues with the head I assume it's not really sell-able as-is and would need to be refurbished.

If they don't do what they are saying they are going to do, keep up constant contact and make every possible effort to fix the situation you should make this public. If not for you, for others.