Looking for Advice

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

This actually happened a while ago, and is now settled, but knowing FA it very well may happen again, so I am looking for some advice on how to handle it if it does.

A commission was delivered via note, but the commissioner was overseas when I did so. They had read the note, so I figured they had gotten the commission.

They were gone quite a long time, and I had lost a lot of files in that time. When they returned (I believe it was something like 4-6 months later. But I really can't remember.) They asked about the commission. They had never gotten it. I know they had read the note because I had checked in my outbox. But, apparently FA ate the note, and the last they had from me was the commission before that in the set. I no longer had the file, and I also no longer had the note (I cleared my outbox).

As he is a close friend, I offered a commission of my current style, free of charge, and actually worth quite a bit more than he originally paid. (The original commission style was no longer offered as I had improved greatly).

But, if this were to happen with an average commissioner, what would be the proper way to settle it? Apparently FA eats notes quite often? Should I maybe add something to my TOS about it? I cannot use email to take commissions as it also eats emails, at a much more frequent rate than FA does.

EDIT -
I use Gmail, and I have multiple accounts, all have the same issue with not sending or receiving. I have never had an issue with FA's note system except this one time, and I assume he had gotten the note because it was marked read after a few days, like all the previous ones I had sent.

Buying an external HD is out of the question as I cannot afford it. I can barely afford to feed myself. I'll try dropbox though, as I do have one. I do have an issue with limited about of HD space, which is why I tend to delete things after a few months.

EDIT 2 -
I have added a line in my TOS stating I will only keep the finished commission for two months after I first send it out to customers.
I will also use dropbox to send them out, so that URLs won't expire/images won't be deleted.
Thanks for all the advice, but like I said, I can't afford an external, so this option will have to do!

Comments

[radiocatastrophe (from livejournal.com)]

If you have a decent sized USB/Discs/External Hard drive, or if you use dropBox I'd suggest saving both the PSD and the larger version of the commission to either of those in case your computer fails or like these situations a website eats the message with the commission. Also how does your email eat messages?

[tunavoice.livejournal.com]

Oh man that sounds like a major pain.

To prevent file losses, I back EVERYTHING up. I have at least 3 copies of everything I draw for commissioners just in case one gets corrupted, deleted, or lost. Dropbox is also an amazing image backup source that I recently got into, so I recommend that as well.

To prevent something like this, I would definitely advise you to get in the habit of backing up things on an external hard drive. USB ones aren't that expensive, and the investment is definitely worth it. ($50 for 300gb really isn't that bad, imo. Mine's not even half-full after 2+ years.)

I would also highly recommend putting something like this in your ToS, since this happened. You can say something along the lines of you can offer compensation for lost files/work if you never managed to deliver and it was a mistake on your part. Things happen. I also think you did something really nice for that commissioner; I don't think many artists would do something like that.

[sovy.livejournal.com]

"Apparently FA eats notes quite often? Should I maybe add something to my TOS about it? I cannot use email to take commissions as it also eats emails, at a much more frequent rate than FA does."

Wait, what?

Don't delete notes. Don't delete emails. Make sure a copy (with the file) is saved in your sent folder.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I don't.

FA 'eats' them. As in, they never arrive to the person I sent them to, and vice versa. The same with my email. I don't delete them. It's apparently a common problem with FA.

[thegrackelknows.livejournal.com]

I've heard about that, but I have never, not even once, had that problem. I wonder if there's a specific reason for it or something.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

"I cannot use email to take commissions as it also eats emails"

what e-mail provider are you using? I know there are some that do that, but there are others that are very reliable. I use g-mail and nothing like that has ever happened to me.

Seconding what everyone else has said about backing up your files as well, at least until the person who commissioned you confirms that they received the piece.

[ocelotish]

This is my thought too.

If your email is that unreliable, find a new email host. They shouldn't be that unreliable.

Other than that, I'd have a policy on how long you'll retain files after confirmed reception. However, I don't think there's ever a case where you should delete a file without confirmation, particularly for a person that you generally have good communication with.

If you're stuck with too many huge files, retain the smaller version or look into an external hard drive. Memory is pretty cheap now: you can get a 120 GB external hard drive for $40. It's an investment, but might be worth it if this is something you feel like you're going to have a lot of trouble with that sort of problem.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I use Gmail.
I've had a few people say they have emailed me and I have never gotten the email, and a few I've sent out which were claimed they never got to the person I was sending them.

I can't afford to purchase something to back them up on. I'm counting dimes and nickels for toilet paper. I don't delete stuff until it's been quite a decent amount of time, like I said, this guy was gone for like 4 to 6 months, so that's nearly half a year after he should have gotten it.

[lovegonnadrown.livejournal.com]

Huh, that's weird. Gmail has been nothing but reliable for me.

Well if that's not an option, there are plenty of free sites that let you back up work online, dropbox, that deviantart stash thing, stuff like that. I used dropbox while working on a group project a while back and it was great-as long as I had the username and password I could grab my stuff from any computer anywhere.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Check your spam folder. I use gmail, too, and I regularly check my spam folder as commission inquiries do get bounced there if they have certain accounts. From personal experience, it's usually hotmail accounts that will get bounced straight to spam.

When they're in spam, it'll only be there for seven days, so you have to make a regular effort to check it.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I check my spam daily along with my regular inbox. Nothing pops up in there except the occasional spam and registration email.

[four-calamities.livejournal.com]

Seconding RadCatastrophe, a file hosting site like dropBox, Mediafire, or even dA's Sta.sh can help with keeping copies for back up if you don't have an external drive.

Does your email have an automatic self-clearing function maybe? Perhaps there is an option you can turn off in your preferences.

[gaaralover85.livejournal.com]

In your situation I would create a new email, preferably from gmail, specifically for commissions. I, had a similar problem, with a yahoo branch account, whereby clients would've apparently sent me things but I never received them. Make sure that any future client gives you a working email address, and add in your TOS that all files will be sent to the email address/adresses they provide. I normally ask for 2, one for regular communication and another for emergency contact. I state in my TOS that the email provided needs at least 20mb of free space for the high res image, and additions, to be sent. I have had only one occurance of gmail either not receiving a clients email, or sending it to spam. If the client says they have sent you an email, and it doesn't arrive, ask them to try from a different account. I've found that Hotmail to gmail accounts do not seem to like one another. Always ask your clients to pageshout you if they have sent an email or note and you haven't responded. Communication is key! As, like yourself, I have had problems with FA's note system, I also leave a pageshout on the customers page to inform them they have a pending email that needs attention.

As regards future clients, and redoing pieces, unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who will try and scam you for more work than what was paid for. You can easily upload the piece to FA, with a link to either a hotobucket/imageshack of the fuller resolution piece if need be. Some clients just don't bother to save the piece, as crazy as it sounds, or they expect the artist to keep hold of the digital file forever. If you do traditional work, always send the piece out via confirmed delivery, as this is normally signed for.

Buying an external/secondary HD is always the best way to go. Backup everything every month. However, if you cannot afford another hard drive state in your TOS about a holding system for completed work, 1-3months is normally a good waiting period. If they do not have the piece by then, it is out of your control. Sent emails, with the pieces as attachments, is another good failsafe as you can redownload the piece as many times as you need, or just reforward or send the email as is. You can also do what others have suggested by getting a dropbox, state in your TOS that it will be available for a set time period (eg.1-3months) afterwhich you will delete it. This gives adequate time for the commissioner to retreive the piece and save to thier own devices. The free version of dropbox is more than adequate for most people's needs!

I hope this helps!

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I actually already use gmail, and I have quite a few emails from them, I have the same issue with all of them.
I find FA more reliable than Gmail with sending. This is the only case with a note being eaten on FA, but I've had multiple cases with Gmail.

Like I stated above, I can't afford one. $40 is a lot of money.
I could try with Dropbox, but doesn't it also take up room on my computer? That's an issue I have with storing, because I don't have that much space.

[citrushark.livejournal.com]

Echoing the USB idea.
I also post all artwork I've done to a blog as a fail safe, in case I end up in a circumstance where my pictures are deleted from my computer.

[takesu.livejournal.com]

Next time, try not to delete the files until you get a reply after you sent it. If it's not a deal big, I would just try to redraw the picture. If not, getting an external harddrive to back up your files would be the best way to go.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

One reason I don't like FA notes. I prefer to conduct all of my business through email. You could also upload a copy to a Photobucket account or something. :)

[marymouse.livejournal.com]

Just echoing the rest of the comments supporting using e-mail over FA notes. FA notes are an incredibly unreliable form of communication. They also can't be organized, and it's very easy to lose things.

Get a reliable e-mail provider, file everything - that way nothing should get "eaten" on a reg. basis.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

How can you not organize them? I keep mine organized quite easily. My email is harder to keep organized.

Also, I use Gmail, which is what everyone is suggesting, so I'm kind of out of luck on 'reliable'.

[marymouse.livejournal.com]

Didn't mean to come off rude - and to be honest, I haven't used FA's note system in a long time. <=)

Can you group all the notes from one person into one place? That was one of my biggest issues with the system. In gmail (or other providers if you don't like gmail) You can label or put conversations into folders.

I do a lot of business through g-mail and only once in a while do I actually have something not get to me, and honestly, I am going to attribute that to my own oversights.

Also, I get notes occasionally that were supposed to be sent to someone else. Which is really weird!

The last thing to consider is security. FA's notes have been compromised in the past, and while e-mails can still get hacked, at least you have a professional company running the show.

If you are 100% happy with the way you do things now, that's your choice! :) I would suggest keeping backups of all your work if you ever run into a situation like this again. Not only for your customers, but so you can have an archive of all you do.

I'm sorry this is so long winded - good luck!

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

FA can color code notes, which is how I keep things organized, I make sure my commissioners send all information in one note, otherwise I just keep asking until they do. You can use three colors, four is you use uncolored as well.

It's pretty simple, but it works really well.

[rivkahwinter.livejournal.com]

What everybody else said. Use e-mail, and make backups of your files.

[neive.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to chime in since buying an external is out of the question, you should use an image hosting site like tinypic for keeping backups of finished work. :) Its totally free, and I find it awesome for sending quick WIP's to people to confirm from since then you can just link it in email/note/page shout whatever without worrying about a file transfer like with an emailed attachment. There's also getting a free blog like on Tumblr just for keeping backups of your work, you can even password protect tumblr accounts if you want it private and just use it as a hosting space. Plenty of free options to help you back up your work~ :3

[neive.livejournal.com]

Oh, also, emailing things to yourself and keeping an organized folder of past work is another backup option. Hope some of these ideas can be useful to you!

[rtydmartel.livejournal.com]

E-mailing yourself a copy of everything you send is not a bad idea; I second giving that a shot.


For free image hosting services like tinypic, if you register an account, they don't erase your images after 3-6 months like they do if you don't sign up and just upload them, do they?

[neive.livejournal.com]

Nope they don't, I've been using it for longer than that and all my pics are still there. :3 But yeah, registered account so I'm not sure about unregistered ones.

[rtydmartel.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I wasn't sure about that.

[slyminera.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure you can't register new accounts through Tinypic though. Photobucket owns them now, and when you click the Join Now button it tries to get you to sign up for them instead.

Also I've had Tinypic eat images at random after only about a month as of recent (which is why I've switched over to Imgur), so I wouldn't call them all that reliable anymore. :/

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Tinypic stopped being reliable years ago. Plus you cannot upload adult work to tinypic/imageshack/photobucket, and many others.

They tend to wipe things after a few days without an account.

[rtydmartel.livejournal.com]

Oh, and +1 to the tumblr idea, too. It takes a bit more time to get the hang of it if you use it that way, but I've heard of people doing.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I use gyazo for WIPS, because it's a screen capture service, it works great. Most image hosts have deleted my images, as I work mainly with adult themes. I switched to gyazo because commissioners were saying the wips were deleted before they had seen them.

I use iaza as well, for final images, but it only stores them for so long. I also have my art tumblr, but I don't post all things up there. A lot of my commission work is backed up there, but this indecent happened before tumblr was around.

[snowyedges.livejournal.com]

How did you send it to him, exactly? I know you sent it through note, but is it possible that the finished product is laying in a photobucket/tinypic account somewhere??

I really have no suggestions for you - maybe try another email service (I use hotmail/live and it works fine) or dropbox, though I've never used that myself.

[copper-curls.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I use Hotmail, which has always been quite reliable for me. I agree with what's been said about external drives, but I know if you're tight on money it's hard to afford. I believe Hotmail has something called Skydrive, I think it's the same sort of thing as Google's cloudspace or whatever it's called.

[millislim.livejournal.com]

I've honestly NEVER had a note eaten or not arrive on FA...I've heard of this phenom tho. Screencap your notes as soon as you get them if they have a tendency to disappear...you'd also be double covered if a commission goes south and you have proof of the transaction's details.

Also agreeing with emailing the files to yourself...whether to a new account just for backup files or reworking an exisiting account to do that for you.

If this is a common thing, people ordering stuff and not being able to communicate if they even received it, that may be the bigger issue. Communication is so key to a smooth commission transaction that if there's no way to verify each party is hearing what the other is saying, I'm not sure it's smart to even proceed. A person could try to play the system and claim they "never got the work" half a year later hoping to get replacement art. While that doesn't sound like the case here the folks of FA never cease to amaze me with ways to scam people outta their hard earned money.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

This is the first, and only time, I've ever had it happen to me. That's a good idea, but storing the screencaps would be a bit of an issue due to low HD space.

I highly doubt this was the case with this guy. He's a close friend, which is why I just offered him another commission free of charge. I'm going to add in to my TOS so that they can't pull it and come back a few months later and demand new art. I don;t think people would try, but you never know.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Some people have chimed in, but I figure it helps to have more options.

I have three gmail accounts. One for my real life stuff, a second for commissions, and a third "master" account. The Master account receives all my emails and automatically labels them for me when they come in. I can also send email from the master one as either account.

Why is this important? Because while the master account receives and sends, I also have it set up to not delete the originals on the other accounts. I have a literal archive of commissions from the first few months I started taking them years and years ago. Every file sent out. Every email received.

After I figured out the issue with some people getting bounced to spam, I had the master account pull in spam from my commission email as well. It makes it so the spam itself is also labeled, so it's easy to glance over it.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I have three used gmail emails, and one back up in case the other three get hacked. All of them actually have the same not sending/receiving issue, even with themselves. I probably just have really bad luck with emails.

Switching over to email would be more of a hassle to me, I think. As of now, I get maybe one or two commission though email every 6 months. It's pretty rare; most stuff is through FA notes.

I may go with dropbox like suggested up there a bit, but the person has not replied to my question about it taking up HD space or not. Mine is just a folder on my computer, and I can link people to said folders. I assume since it is stored on my HD, that is is also taking up HD space, which is something I cannot be doing until I can afford a better computer.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's... really weird. o_o I've been using Gmail for years and have never had anything lost. Misplaced in spam, yes, but not lost. Then again, I've never had an FA note lost, either.

And yes, it does take up HD space. If the cost of an external is too much for you, you can think about a flash drive that has a few gigs on it. Those things are getting cheaper and cheaper now with more space. A $10 one can hold 12 gigs. Or maybe back up CDs, assuming your rig can burn CDs. :3

[catwithpen.livejournal.com]

Dropbox is a good idea. But whatever you end up using to send the file, I would suggest you also ask the commissioner to confirm that they've received the art and saved it. Once you get confirmation that they have it, you can delete it from your computer without worrying if they got it or not.

Edited to add: If you put a file in your dropbox, it takes up the same amount of HD space as it would if you had it in any other folder on your computer. If space is an issue, don't keep art in your dropbox for long, just keep it there until you get confirmation that they received and saved it. When I deliver art this way, I just keep it in there for a day or two until they got it, and then delete it.

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

In regard to buying storage:

You could try backing up images on CDs instead; they're super cheap. Requires a writer-drive but almost every computer in the past few years has come with such a drive. Make sure you label the disks with the write date each time so you have a good reference point.

You could also consider buying some USB flash thumb drives to back things on; many 2-4GB ones can be bought for $5 or less.

You can buy an external enclosure and an internal HD on sale and save some money (instead of a premade external).

I also recommend DropBox as an excellent service for storing files. Skydrive and Google also have file storage services for free, so there's more free space for you.


I would include in my TOS that files are kept for X amount of time then deleted. I like to use yousendit.com to send large files; that service includes a delivery receipt when you send a file. Occasionally I will also send an email confirming I sent a file 'in the last email' or 'via yousendit.com'

[frazzled-niya.livejournal.com]

Other than dropbox you can try 4shared and password the files for the commissioner only.

Even if you can put aside any type of money to eventually get an external to backup your files it would be beneficial to you. There are always sales on and looking at the net you can normally get a 1TB for just under $100 (always look around and see what type of deals you can get, hell even if you can get a friend from overseas to cite you one for now and pay them back over X time.)

syrusb idea of burning to disc is a good idea too and cheap.

Er also if people are having trouble with emails always get them to check their spam folders.....

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

It is a VERY wise idea to invest in an external, even if you think you can't afford it. You can find cheap ones, or invest in the more expensive.

This is the one I own: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WD-WESTERN-DIGITAL-ELEMENTS-1TB-USB-3-0-PORTABLE-2-5-DRIVE-/110920353804?pt=US_External_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item19d35e480c

Here's one that's half the size and only $65: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Western-Digital-WD-500GB-My-Passport-Mac-USB-2-0-Portable-External-Hard-Drive-/370546891981?pt=US_External_Hard_Disk_Drives&hash=item564650dccd

Even a small flash drive would be a good idea to back up finished file images (not workfiles). I have all the original Sai/PSD files from the past two years still backed up, just in case.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

It's not that I don't think I can afford it, I know I can't. I'm literally counting change for food and toilet paper. Behind on almost all bills, barely making rent. Any money I get goes to food, because we can't really eat right now.

I think I'll end up going with dropbox, and I added a clause in my TOS that states I only keep the files for a limited time, so I'm sure that will cover it.

[linksage.livejournal.com]

I have a pro-photobucket account for image storage. I've stored everything I've done art-wise that I could find, even as far back as 2004 on there just in case anything happens to my computer. With the pro version you can store high res files (it will give you a web version to post online, but the high res can be downloaded to your computer whenever you'd like); I don't remember the exact cost but I believe it ended up being something like $15 a year? Just another backup option to consider.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

I would go with something like that, but most of my artwork is adult, and it would be wiped from the servers. I used to use PB when I was active on Gaia back in like 2008 and just starting getting in to adult works.

[aerospiritual.livejournal.com]

Geez.

I thought I was the only one who was having issues with Gmail; I had to actually register a Gmail account purely for art commissions because it seems that anything sent from my main[Hotmail] account to Gmail doesn't actually go through.

Seconding the Dropbox idea though; cloud storage is really really useful for backing stuff up, especially if you're dealing with adult material.