(no subject)

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

Hey there everyone,

I just wanted to alert you all to the fact that an artist has been imitating my artwork (which can be found at the following URLs: http://yerf.com/ocelot/ , http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/oCeLoT/ , http://ocelot.yna.solfire.com/ , http://www.furaffinity.net/user/oce/). I'm quite tired of it, and I want to make it known to the public that she has been doing this. It smacks to me of very bad faith, and I really want to see it end.

Here's the URL I set up with the referenced pieces: http://ocelot.disenchanted.com/copy/ - please check it out. Also note that there's a progression happening in these: the earliest pieces (up top) are only vaguely similar, to where I wouldn't have been upset if it were just those; problem is, the similarities increase as time moves on (down). If any of the URLs cease to work, let me know, as I have saved copies of all the works in question.

It started out with some vague similarities in style and framing, but quickly escalated to copying, right down to her redesigning her signature so that it looks very, very similar to my own. (See the before/after examples at the above URL). She has not directly ripped any poses or otherwise traced my work, but she's been basing a large number of her new works off of existing works of mine. And on top of that, she's been trying make a profit off this and sell many of the imitation works. This, obviously, does not sit very well with me, nor should it sit well with any artist who values originality and integrity.

So please, I ask of you fellow artists: keep an eye out for more of this kind of behavior. If you see it, don't be afraid to voice your opinion about people who copy others' hard work. Furthermore, I ask that you not support this artist monetarily - in particular, don't buy prints or originals of works she's copied from me. If ever there were a way to send the message "this is NOT okay," directing your hard-earned money elsewhere would definately be it!

Thanks so much for your attention! I just had to get this off my chest.

Edit: I altered the above URL slightly, to remove the two oldest comparisons. Those two were proving confusing for some people, so I've narrowed my evidence down to only the works I feel are direct imitations.

Comments

[drake-anaya.livejournal.com]

The artist in question is a moderator in this community, so I'll allow her to speak for herself...

[vulgaris.livejournal.com]

There was a person like that to me, in high school. He never directly traced or ripped my work but it was obviously the same pictures I'd, like, /just/ done with the poses slightly changed. He even used the same handwriting I'd use, and even changed his webpage to look just like mine. It was entirely creepy, but not a lot of people noticed until I pointed it out because it wasn't -direct- stealing.

[drake-anaya.livejournal.com]

I had someone like that in high school, too - an overzealous underclassman classmate. She adopted all of my hobbies, my interests, my artistic subjects, coloring methods... etc etc

it was kind of creepy, and I'm glad I graduated away from her :P

[kappyjeanne.livejournal.com]

personally i do that alot.. but its more work being inspired by things than anything else. and i give the original artist credit. ah well, good luck

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Same here. It is how you learn....
Or at least this is what art students have told me

[shriker]

That's interesting. *twiddles thumbs*

[mazz.livejournal.com]

Slightly inspired at most. Though you can't claim copying. Expecialy witht he glowstick picture. I've seen thousands like that.

[growly.livejournal.com]

Glad to see you got your account back, oCe. :)

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

I did indeed.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

Well the good thing is if people see your stuff they know its yours and not someone else's, but I can understand why that would be utterly obnoxious.

I think that's very bad form to not write you back though, in any circumstance. If this post gets deleted it will be another point of immaturity IMO, so I hope it stays.

[chozo.livejournal.com]

Oi.

Countdown to drama and/or post deletion in 3... 2... 1...

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

Well, drama is pretty much guaranteed in any post on this community, but if it gets deleted I'm going to seriously think less of a certain mod here for not sucking it up and handling it like an adult, so, she has a choice. I hope she makes the right one.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

Sure there are similarties but I am sorry to let you know nothing about your furry art is that original. Sure it is done very well but I have seen art just like yours all over the fandom, with the same style and themes. Nothing about this art can be declared down right copying, so I don't see at all why you are making a big deal about this. Her style is different enough from yours and while her pieces might be inspired by your work, they are NOT carbon copies, and there is NOTHING wrong with her selling her art work. YOu should be flattered that you art is inspiring this girl. I mean shit if my art inspired someone liek this I would be tickled pink. I see NO reason what so ever to bitch about this on here. I think you just need to chill out and leave her alone.

[kaputotter.livejournal.com]

If this had happened to any other artist, I might agree with you. I might say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. That it is one of the highest respects that someone can pay to an artist, in fact, if used judiciously.

However, there are circumstances I'm knowledgable about that extenuate this situation. I will not go into detail about them, because they are very personal. But we have reason to believe that Redfeather is doing this with complete cognizance of what she's doing. And if there's anything she's being, it's not respectful. Respectful to oCeLoT, as an inspiration, would have meant giving oCeLoT credit for the work it was inspired by. Redfeather, however, has not even as much as answered oCeLoT's communication in the least, and if anything has been nothing but rude to her.

Redfeather is not merely a fan wanting to learn. She is doing this maliciously and with full intent.

[synchra.livejournal.com]

hmm.. seems like extreme inspiration, but if you look through the rest of her work you can aslo see inspiration from tons of others artwork.. Like Kyoht I see some inspiration from and some other.. but the one that really irlks me are the very last two you posted similarities about.

it's weird because color palettes are taken.. and you work in a lot of different styles, and styles are re-imitated. If something was that inspired by other people I'd credit them in the description personally..

hmm. It's really odd.. I wouldn't know what to think of it. It would get to me after a while too if I found THAT many pictures with similarities myself. I also agree that if your work is that inpired by someone else you should not sell prints without permission of the artist. I am happy others that were inspired by my work like that asked me if they could sell prints.. and simply because they were so nice, and asked I allowed it.. but if they hadn't.. I WOULD'VE BEEN PISSED. hahha.

good luck with that Ocelot!

[atateatarin.livejournal.com]

Colour pallettes? As in the base colours used for the images? Serious? Oo
If so, then to me that would be very suss... out of the millions of different colour combinations around, what's the likelihood of that?


I don't pretend to know what the story behind this is, and I'm not going to go and jump to conclusions either as I'm not privvy to information on the incident alluded to by some other members. But I've read everyone else's comments and it seriously makes me wonder a bit. What sort of ongoing incident could inspire imitation?
It seems very immature on the copier's behalf, but again, I don't know the full story, if it is copying/imitation or not.
I don't have a relevant opinion - 'cept that if someone's gonna copy or imitate someone else, they should give credit. Common courtesy.

[synchra.livejournal.com]

O.o wow it's insane how different people's opions are on this.. I think they forget about putting themselves in both people's places. XD

[makuus.livejournal.com]

Could you clarify the problem with the first two sets, in your words, because I'm having trouble seeing how this can be construed as egregious copying? I see a celtic knotted tree in yours and a juniper in hers. In the second, I see a lantern.

And so, that leads me to the question: Given my interest in japanese imagery (lanterns, bonsai among them), I should I just quit now, lest I get a post like this, maybe a couple of years down the road?

[synchra.livejournal.com]

I can sorta help with the second one with what I see myself. They both have the same stylized tree in the picture which is very similar in build. And they both have lamps in them.. very similar lamps.. yes I am sure there are many trees and lamps in picture but if you compare them they are just not as similar as these two. They also both take place at night. and redfeather's has something i recognize as inpired by Kyoht's artwork.. but I am sure others have done the whole blowing magic thing before her.. it just seemed to explode after she did this one picture though a couple years back.

The one above that..
The bothe have blown to an angle trees, something in their mouths and similar poses? not really sure. >.

Hardly

[solitech.livejournal.com]

So, I see that some of the subjects of the images may have been borrowed from. But other than that these pics are completely different. I hate to break it to you but furry art is not original content.

The pics with the trees in them, I've seen several other pictures just google-searching that look almost exactly like that. Furry-raver-glowstick pics? A dime-a-dozen. You draw a furry character sipping on a cup of coffee or smoking a cig. and claim copyright on it?

So some other artist may be borrowing ideas or some such. Imitation is one of the best forms of flattery. If someone doesn't have the ability to draw as well and they imitate your style or subjects, you should be flattered. Means that you do good work.

Now I'm not saying your an asshole for this post. Your art is very nice. It's not smut like the other 98% of furry art. But still. This post is chock-full of pretentious accusation. If this person was flat out tracing/pose-copying, I could understand your complaint. But there is not enough evidence of plagiarism to start tossing stones.

Re: Hardly

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

*applaudes*

[shinmaxwell.livejournal.com]

I must be blind..but I honestly don't see any theft here. At all.. =/

[ex-midnightf139.livejournal.com]

I guess I'm blind, too...

[izzyferret.livejournal.com]

Tell me again how this person's art is based off yours? Where's your proof that this person saw your picture(s) and decided to draw something like that? This person has not taken anything that makes your work stand out and used it. I've seen tons of canines, knotted gnarled trees, lanterns, glowsticks, ravens, 'just standing', and sitting & drinking in furry art. I'm sorry, but I just think you're jumping the gun a little, if these are the best 'examples' you can find. By this logic, I've copied you as well, even though this is the first time I've ever seen your art.

But tell me, when do you start calling out Matisse for taking influence from Cézanne, and van Gogh for taking influence from Millet, and so on? Influence makes the world go round, and if no one ever took influence from other artists, well then, I think we'd be running short on artists right about now.

I've never seen anyone so offended by the idea of being an inspiration to someone.

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

I'm not offended by being someone's inspiration; I'm offended by the fact that she denies any and all inspiration. That's it, really. *shrug*

[growing-rose.livejournal.com]

Ocelot? The one I found in the forums? I'm the king cheetah if you are.

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

I haven't actively posted to forums in awhile; probably a different ocelot!

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

It doesn't look copied- inspired at most, but there are enough differences between them that I wouldn't let it get to you.

[armaina.livejournal.com]

"If you want to find out how to contact the artist in question, she lists her contact info on most of the copied pieces I have linked to at the above URL."

Um *cough* excuse me? Problem or not, I find it rather.... detestable, that you are more or less 'suggesting' others to get involved in a problem that should only be between you and her.

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

I thought that's why this community existed... to go to when you're mad about these things, and feel you have no other place to vent.

I'll edit the post and remove that line, though. Perhaps it's unfair of me to include it.

[xothia.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I see some influence but not nearly enough to consider it copying. I've seen both your works and never confused them for each other.

There's a lot of inbreeding and similarities in the fandom, and there's only so much you can help. Personally, I'd take it as flattering and not see it as a threat since there's no direct copying or actually claiming yours is theirs.

[fierycatthing.livejournal.com]

Honestly, Amara, you have taken this too far now. And I did not reply to you because Lief did, and I agreed with every aspect of what he wrote and I would have done nothing but reiterate what he said.

As many have said, I don't see many similarities. I can see some, but that's to be had when drawing furry art, similarities will come up. But when you're looking deeply into each and every work of mine, and specifically trying to find anything to base your grounds on, you're sure to find something. And oh gee, a tree and a lantern, glowsticks, sitting drinking tea, standing. A square signature that, need I say, chinese paintings have all the time? These are all very basic aspects of those peices. Some of my peices, yes, do look like yours. And I will say again that is purely coincidence. But, you won't take my word for it since you're so set on what you think that other people's opinions matter for nothing.

Do you really have no life that you spend your time during the days hawking my artwork? Searching each of my galleries trying to find even the smallest coincidences and claiming them for yourself? And now even contacting business dealings, like a portfolio, and asking them to "reprimand her for
behaving in this manner" and remove my peice from the porfolio? No, it doesn't work that way.

I could spend hours showing you each and every stock photo reference I used for each of my peices and explain how my ideas flowed. But I'd rather not waste my time on a futile effort. Because I would much rather be painting. If you want to believe that I copied you and that I'm some drooling fangirl who won't admit it, go ahead, I won't stop you. Just let me say that it is absolutely false.

Style and 'framing' are nothing that belong to you and you alone. Hence why you can't copyright a style. Ever think that maybe my style is developed on my own? Or maybe that I like to vary myself to many many forms of style and art to make my paintings come alive? I like learning new things. My recent learning was color theory. Oh no, that must belong to you, huh?

But I really don't care. I do my art, you do yours. Art is art. You're not going to stop me from doing my art, the work that has my sweat and blood poured in, and I shouldn't hinder you from doing yours. Move on.

[anjel-kitty.livejournal.com]

If she is hindering you in a business sense and keeps doing so I would sue her for harssment. Trying to tell you not to sell your art is just ludcris, and I think you could defiantly find a judge that would here your case. It is one thing to make dramarific posts like this, but an entire different and more serious matter to threaten someone's livelyhood and try to attack your ability to sell your art work with no grounds what so ever.

You have my full support on this matter.

[ilea.livejournal.com]

I thought this had already been covered elsewhere awhile ago.

It might be inspiration but definately not copying.

Time to get over it and move on.

[captpackrat.livejournal.com]

I'm not seeing it.

I suppose there's some elements that are similar between pics, but then again, those same elements have appeared in countless other furry and non furry pieces of art for thousands of years.

[thornwolf.livejournal.com]

glowsticks are thousands of years old? XD

Sorry, not trying to start anything..just had to say :>

[mix-hyenataur.livejournal.com]

"She has not directly ripped any poses or otherwise traced my work, but she's been basing a large number of her new works off of existing works of mine." ...and every other popular and awsome artistic talent.

You're such a considerate and caring rolemodel aren't you hun?

Ever hear the phrase 'Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery but originality wins the day'?

http://www.blog-republic.com/2006/04/26/imitation-is-the-sincerest-form-of-flattery-but-originality-wins-the-day/

[mix-hyenataur.livejournal.com]

Also, quit shitting yourself over this girl.

I don't see the yours/hers similarities.

Raven with mouse/Raven with key
Emo Cheetah/Raver Wolf
Cheetah with coffee/Cheetah with hot cocoa

[gothwings.livejournal.com]

This has made my morning, it really has!

I love the comparison page, it shows just how 'similar' your pieces are. So 'similar' in fact that the majority are completely different. This is just amusing and crazy and any posts trying to drag me into a discussion, debate or argument on this topic will be gleefully ignored.

To think, I thought that because of the multi-syllabic words and phrases used in the original post that it was an intelligent person.

[mix-hyenataur.livejournal.com]

More like 'artificial intelligence' due to online thesaurus and spell-check...

[wereguitar.livejournal.com]

On your site: http://ocelot.disenchanted.com/copy/
Could you possibly add some written descriptions of how each are copied from you? Because I have to say that alot of us are confused.

I know here you are claiming that you dont really mind as long as you can have Redfeatherhusky admit that you are 'inspiration' to her own style and art, but then your 'copy' website is telling us on the other hand that you are saying she is blatently "copying" your artwork. Could you write case by case on that site how each are copies so we can have a better understanding of your point of view?

[electricgecko.livejournal.com]

I suppose it would make a little more sense to explain this...

The first two images are not copies. They're very vaguely referenced, at best, and I'll happily admit that. The ones I feel are copied begin *after* those first two. I originally had up an example of her 'old' style, to show the progression from a style that had absolutely no resemblance to mine, to borrowing similar themes and a signature (first and second images, respectively), to suddenly taking entire images and rehashing them with minimal differences. I took the work with no resemblance down, since that wasn't really fair of me to keep up. I did, however, leave the vaguely-inspired-by ones up as a point of reference. But since it's apparently confusing people, I may take the first two images off.