Help Advice wanted

[lillytiger]

I need some advice. I am having a lot of issues with someone. Here is what happend. I talked to someone about making a collar for my dog. This started the end of Apirl being of May. I wanted to have one made as I wanted as little metal on the collar. He said he could do snaps. I asked him if I could do a part trade and he said it was ok.My half of the trade was a pillow. I sent him $20 on the 2nd of May. After a month of not hearing from him I sent him a note asking. He said he never got the money so I told him to go look. He did and the money was there. I was almost done with the pillow and he did not even start work on the collar. Once he was done with the collar he said he did not have the money to send it. So I sent him another $10. On August 7th he said he has shiped the collar two weeks ago and would not give me any info on the shipping. Finely he said he got it back in the mail and then sent it again. This time I got it. The collar was done poorly. This is what I sent him.

1. The collar was to made with as little metal as possible so that when Thor shook his head, he wouldn't tear up his ears and make them bloody. This collar has a big metal buckle and D ring.

2. You said it was being made out of buffalo. What we got was a layer of cowskin with a buffalo print on one side and layer of pleather backing that was already separating.

3. The buckle wasn't wide enough for the width of the collar.

4. The holes for the buckle weren't dyed, so you could see raw leather. This is the section where the collar was separating.

5. The leather to hold the buckle was a scrap piece folded over the end of the collar, like someone trying to make a piece of leather work as the end of the collar should have been folded over to hold the buckle.

6. The rivets used to secure this scrap piece around the buckle and D ring were too small. It would have fallen apart if we'd tried to use it on Thor.

7. The "hammer"s" look like large I's and so it looks like it says IThorI.

8. The silver paint that Thor is painted with is already flaking off without even been used yet.

9. The stamping of the leather wasn't done right and so it's blurry as it wasn't hammered hard enough the first time and shows shadows of the different poundings.

10. This took three months from the time we first started talking about it.

11. I made a $20 payment, emailed you, and it was a month later as I didn't want to nag you, that I message you again and you realized I'd made a payment.

.12. You claimed you couldn't afford to ship it once it was done, so I sent you another $10 and it was weeks before you shipped it. You said you'd tried shipping it two times already, but wouldn't confirm what address you'd shipped it to. Said you were having you wife go and ship it and was shipped a week and a half after that.

13. You accused me of trying to scam you and that I was rude. Seems you are the one scamming me. I was more than patient and for a piece of junk.

14. It's costing me $25 to have a leather worker to fix the collar to something I can use, and then I'm going to have to repaint the letters Thor and paint over the "hammers" with black so that they don't look like I's.

Summary: I would have been ashamed to ship a product that was so poorly done and obviously just thrown together and expect payment for it. The leather shop we took it to, to confirm it wasn't buffalo, was appalled that someone would have expected payment for it. I would have been ashamed to give it as a gift. I'm amazed that you had the nerve to ship it. I know that I won't get the $30 back that I've already paid you for the collar. I wouldn't have paid $10 let alone $20 and a custom pillow, so you can consider our barter deal null and void. I know that you are going to think that I've ripped you off, but after the delays, games and poor product, if you were in CA, I'd be taking you to small claims court for the $30 on principal, so you better be happy you're in TX. If you still want the pillow, it's $60.

Now he is throwing a hissy fit. I do not feel like I should have to send him a pillow after everthing. I am not even showing all the emails between us. Can someone please give me advice.



-edit-
He did send me my money back without me asking but I have put more money into the collar to have it fixed.
I was not planing on having it fixed. I toke it into a leather shop to confurm it was not buffalo it was just cow hide.
The guy hardly pulled on it and the end where the buckle was fell apart. I did not think I would get my money back or anything so I had them fix it. Its fixed and payed for.

-edit 2- Here is his resopes to my note. That he send to my mom as he has her email from paypal.

I understand her being angry at the collar. You have been refunded your money and i do apologize for everything that has occurred how ever her language is not appropriate, aspergers  or not. I have in fact reported her to the FA admins. But making threats of " if you were in CA, I'd be taking you to small claims court for the $30 on principal, so you better be happy you're in TX." I would actually be more than happy to show the courts in San Diego where im from the note in which out trade agreement was discussed. You now have a collar and your money I have nothing. I would like to still have the pillow. If not so be it. Please monitor her actions on the internet more closely. Her journal which has been Screen shot and saved can be used as admissible defamation as well as her letter. I have contacted my attorneys and would be more than happy to take this to court however as adults I dont think that is necessary. I would ask the journals be removed please. And we will go our separate ways. I assure you if she would not have posted a journal i would have remade and shipped the collar free of charge.I take pride in my work. At this point I wish you harmony and peace and good fortune. Have a blessed day

This is what my mom sent back

Name,

 I'm sorry for your issues with gall stones.  I understand they are painful

Since I wrote the list of issues and summary, I know what was posted. Please explain which specific sections of the posting were inappropriate.

We didn't start out to pay someone to fix the collar, but took it to a shop, just to confirm what I knew that the collar wasn't buffalo as I've worked with buffalo myself, but when he tugged a little on the piece of leather holding the buckle and D ring, one of the rivets popped off.  If we'd have used it, it would have fallen apart and he'd have run off.  At this point, we asked them to fix it.  Yes, the look of the collar on top appears to be buffalo, but due to the separation of the pieces we could see the bottom of the actual piece of leather and it was not buffalo. One of the repairs the leather store did was glue the backing back on.  They also used a hook type system to allow the collar to have no metal showing that Thor can shake his ears on.  This is the same style that they use for K-9 bite suits so that the dogs don't tear the suits off or injure their mouths. This was the primary reason  Heather was having you make a collar and why we chose to have them fix the collar.  I worked for a custom leather company for years, so I do know the value of the type of work done, and what different kinds of leather are like.  It's not soft enough to be buffalo and it's not dark enough either.  There were several people in the shop and they all agreed it wasn't buffalo.  If you paid buffalo prices, I think you were ripped off.  The collar has already been fixed and paid for, so I can't return it.

We are going on a trip and seeing as how long it took you to get the original collar, we wouldn't get a replacement collar before we left.  We need the collar for the trip. 

If there would have been one or two issues, we wouldn't be in this situation, but the more we looked at the collar, the more amazed we were at how many issues there were.  This whole time, I've read what my daughter posted, saw how long it took for you to respond to her when you did respond and feel that you have said things like her being rude that could easily be applied to you.  The number of times she texted you and you didn't respond, caused hard feelings and was not professional.  And if you would have responded, this would not have gotten to this point.

We tried to be as patient and understanding as possible, waiting for months, and even sending you the $10 for shipping which wasn't part of the deal. My daughter repeatedly asked what address you shipped to once we found out that the package had been returned.  After the first time it was returned, you should have checked with us.  I'm not sure why it didn't make it here the first two times, we get many packages, from many different sources, and we've never had the companies say it was returned. This makes me wonder what,where or how you tried to ship it.

We didn't ask for the $30 to be returned, so thank you, and since you did, Heather will remove the journals. 

For the record, I did pay over $25 for the pillow itself (I can provide proof), and paid for the rest of the materials to finish it, not to mention the time my daughter put into doing the trapunto. So the comment that it is a $10 pillow is very inflammatory.

We'll agree not to get each other put on the warning list and to not journal or note back and forth on this issue anymore.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors.

Heather's Mom

This is what she got back

I urge you to also take these down as well http://www.furaffinity.net/user/thorthewolf

I truly wished to be able to remake the collar as well. But again im glad this is all finished. How ever i would not pay 25 to have someone restore it. I would go and get a stamping set and a collar from petsmart. Again the journals were not necessary at all.  I will ensure to tell every fur that asks me not to buy a pillow nor have any dealings with your daughter what so ever. As you see I have well over 1000 watchers.And many more califurs  and other across the nation. As you have been refunded your 30 i would humbly request the pillow be shipped to me please. I would hate for her to lose her account and be banned from FA due to other notes she had sent. As well what i forwarded to you is what she sent to me in a note. The bottom part was not in the journal her threat to take me to small claims court was not in the journal. As long as i can still have the pillow I see no reason fo rthis to go any further nor the reason to inform other on how badly i was taken advantage of. I am attending MFM Wednesday. It is one of the biggest cons. I can either encourage people to buy her pillows or discourage. I only feel it is fair. It is your choice.

This is what she sent back

She's taking down the other journals.  You have not explained what in the journals was inappropriate.  As far as I can see, there was nothing. 

I did see the note she sent you about small claims, and that was my wording.  I have been involved in this from the beginning, seen all the notes, all the ignored texts she sent.

You still don't seem to get the fact of the original reason to make the collar was so it would not have a metal buckle. If you had said you couldn't do that, none of this would have happened.  I know that Heather had to tell you three times, what Thor's neck was, if you'd gone back and read the notes, you'd have seen that, as well as the entire reason for having you do the collar.

I'd like to see the receipts on what you spent on the collar before we go any further. 

I now understand why you wanted the $20 and the pillow since you feel the pillow was only worth $10.  So, supposedly the $30 I paid and the "$10" pillow would have added up to your $40 collar.  This is so wrong.

You really don't know much about leather work, if you think you can buy a collar from Petsmart and stamp it, because the fully finished leather will not take a stamp well. 

Please let me know exactly what you think the collar is worth.  I'm very curious as at the moment, I believe the cost of materials we have in the pillow is way more than the materials you have in the collar.  I know the amount of work involved in both items is comparable.  Except for the fact that the collar was very poorly executed and I know the pillow is very well done.

I was going to be happy with just letting you keep the $30 and not shipping you the pillow.  The ranting Heather did in her journal was just that, and she didn't name you or anything.  You're the one who commented on her thread so people knew who you were.

Seems like you were just as rash, if not rasher in your comments and postings, then my daughter and I were.

So as it stands, we'll have put out $25 for the repair on the collar, $30 for the pillow materials, and another$10 for shipping to ship you the pillow, which is a total of $65 .

As far as I can figure, you're out $6 for shipping, and maybe $15 for materials for a total of $21, I don't include the two previously shipped charges due to the fact that it wasn't my fault it didn't get here and I have no proof you shipped it twice or what address you shipped to.

That's a difference of $44 in your favor.

Where in this scenario, is shipping you the pillow and calling it even, fair?  I"m not tryin to be a bitch, I really want to know what your're thinking.

Here is what he said back
I am finished you obviously think that youare int he right and speaking with you is going no where. I wish to have our trade as you have the leather and the collar. I have no idea how youcould make a buckle less collar. I think it is you who might be confused. I will let other know as many as will listen what my experience was with you and your daughter. I wish you good luck in finding anyone to purchase a 60 dollar pillow. As well I am considering placing her on the other artist beware  website. So as she or you does not effect anyone else. I am out the time it took to make the collar and the materials that went into it. YOU once again have a collar a pysical piece of leather I have nothing therefore the trade is no where near fair. You explain to me your reasoning of not completing the trade and why you feel it is acceptable to have something while i have nothing?

What was sent back

I was asking you what you thought was fair, obviously you think so highy of your self that no one else's work can come close to yours.

So you feel that the $44 difference in your favor it acceptable, and of course you would.  I will glady provide proof of both the pillow cost and the repair cost.  Will you provide proof of your material costs?

I am trying to work out a fair settlement but obviously YOU don't want to.

I don't feel it is acceptable for me to have something and you to have nothing.  I didn't ask you to return the money.

I'm willing to provide proof of payments, and work out a setttlement.  Apparently you aren't and threatening my daughter will only get the same placement on the artist beware website for you.

Do you even read the entire email, or just what you want?  I asked what you were thinking and I get a diatribe about the situation and your feelings, not your honest thoughts.

And, once I have access to a camera, I'll provide you with pictures of the buckless collar. 

What he sent back

At this point we are getting no where. I am done. I returned the 30 because your daughter posted she highly doubted she would get her money back. And if I were to report her to artists beware and then you chose to post about me they would deny your post. I.E retaliation. But it will not come to this. Sadly your both leather experts and I should have never crossed your paths.  I am no longer ever doing trades. The bottom line is you have a piece of leather in your hands. With my time and energy. a dring and rivets. I have ummmm air? I should not have to prove the cost of the leather nor the shipping you have a collar I have NOTHING. all i want is the pillow is that so hard? A trade is a trade you have your product it was not to your standards you should have shipped it back and canceled the trade. Now you have your product and the returned money and i have a huge headache. And a-lot of furs are going to here about this.

Trust me. All i want is the pillow. Just send it and this is over.Please its just fabric and I would repost it and tell everyone what an awesome job she did on it. I showed all of my friends the photos of it and they thought it was really cool. I mean just think if all 1000 plus watchers i have were to see it and order from you because of  my recommendation its win win situation Thor now has a collar I would have a pillow. to sleep on and bring to cons. Just ship it please.

Now I would like to point out that the pillow is not ment to be slept on. It is just to look good.
Here is a link to a differnt pillow. This one is a wolf. The one he wanted is a puma.
Front view http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7569154/
Side view http://www.furaffinity.net/view/7569198/

edit 3
Ok so after talking to frinds I have deside what I am going to do. I am going to send him the money back and be done with it. My friend brought up a very good point. That if I did send him the pillow he might make it look really bad and tells everone I did it.

Comments

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Send him the collar back and get your money refunded.

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

Agreed. You don't get to keep the product and not fulfill your end of the bargain. If you are unhappy, return the collar, get a refund. Actually, ask for the refund first, receive it, then send the collar, because it's a good chance this person will not bother responding once the item is received.

[magnanimousity.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I wouldn't send the pillow if I were you. He didn't hold up his end of the deal entirely, so why should you?
I would also suggest posting a full beware about this guy; He sounds like a real pain to deal with. It'd be a shame for others to go through similar experiences with this guy. :/

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

seconding this.

[onesteptwo.livejournal.com]

Definitely send the collar back. At the very least, he can't really claim you're scamming him for the work if you don't have it in your hands, even if you are out the money.

[skanrashke.livejournal.com]

Wait, so you agreed to a trade with this person, he sent you what he made and you didn't send him what you agreed- and you're threatening that you'd take him to small claims court?

That's not how it works. Do you have a picture of the collar?

[spykie90.livejournal.com]

Partial trade, they already paid the guy $30 as well. But after receiving the product they feel the $30 is well over what the product is worth already without sending a $60 pillow.

[zaulankris.livejournal.com]

I don't think you can keep the collar and not give him the pillow. I fully understand that you have to pay someone else to fix it for you and that's not fair to you, but on the other hand you can't just change the deal halfway through either (in reference to not wanting to give them anything at all and/or raising the price of your pillow).

Without seeing the collar I can't really give any useful advice past asking for a refund, sending it back and washing your hands of the whole thing. Does this person have experience with collar-making in the first place?

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

One, it would help if we could see all the emails.

Two, I understand you're frustrated (I would be too, this person doesn't seem to grasp commissions yet), but I'm having trouble telling if you even gave the artist the chance to correct mistakes or issue a refund before you went to have someone else work on their product. Maybe you did. I can't tell, since I don't have the other emails to read.

Three, yes, he may have scammed you with a poor product, but you are indeed scamming him if you keep the collar without paying. Even if you're basically just taking the materials to someone else to fix it up--you've just scammed the artist out of those materials, at the very least. You need to either send the collar back and/or get a refund, or pay up as originally agreed.

[gargoylekitty.livejournal.com]

you've just scammed the artist out of those materials, at the very least

Granted, I'm not familiar with how much such things cost, but wouldn't that depend on the cost of materials? OP already paid $30(around $25 once you subtract the shipping, doubt the person used the full $10 toward shipping for a collar, which they really shouldn't have had to paid to begin with if it was to be a trade)

[xenafox.livejournal.com]

Do you have any pictures? I am sort of curious to see the "hammer I's" or whatever lol.

But yea I would send the collar back and just be done with it. It's not worth the stress.

[gargoylekitty.livejournal.com]

I'd get a refund, shipping cost included, then send the collar back and be done with it.

Though I gotta ask, given that this apparently is a ~$80 in value trade/payment, did the person have examples of their work? Just confused as to how the skill level you seem to have expected was so far below what you received. Also, pics!

[harliquinnraver.livejournal.com]

I've seen another collar made by this maker and can agree with your assessment of the quality as being poor. I'd never send something so poorly done to a paying customer. I'm sorry you got scammed there. I'd demand a $30 refund and pay postage to return the collar. Maybe sell the pillow to someone else or something? I dunno.

Good luck to you. <3

[marus-puppy.livejournal.com]

You don't have to confirm here, but was this guy featured previously for something? They sound like similar cases from what I remember of the other one, but I don't want to go dragging his name through the mud if he's not/this is an advice post.

[radiocatastrophe (from livejournal.com)]

You should order from this site: http://collarfactory.com/
They make collars for people, pets, and they take on completely custom made things as well. You can even send in the materials you want them to use if they don't have them or are out of stock. I've ordered myself two collars and cuffs from here and well as a friend without any hassle or trouble.

I don't know what else to say about your situation but I'd see about a refund and cool down on the small courts claims since you didn't give him the pillow yet. He could have complaints about the pillows stitch work as well ya know.

[alaitallon.livejournal.com]

I second this recommendation. I've bought from them and the result really was fantastic and completely worth the money. While custom can get pricey, you get exactly what you pay for.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

I feel weird about this. Who does a mutual physical trade, but doesn't send both side's items out at the same time if they're both finished (which it sounds like the OP's end is complete)?

Especially after you pressured him to get it completed.

I've never seen it done that way, and I would never personally do it that way. :/ And I actually have done quite a few physical item trades.

I know it could have meant you might have been out time/money, but it's a show of good faith - you didn't even have good faith that his end would be good enough?

[xenafox.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't do it this way either, but seen people do it plenty of times - send at different times I mean. Usually they know each other better though.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

I would agree with sending the collar back. I know your intent is to get it repaired etc but it comes across as 'I'm unhappy with the product but i'm keeping it anyway.'

Also while I understand the frustration, if this is the email you sent him, the last two sentences of the summery reads as a bit childish. You're closing off the chance of him to explain or make a compromise. And going to small claims court for $30? Given the fees involved, it's not worth doing that for anything less than $500 and you'd still only get a fraction of that. I think it's unlikely to even go through so is an empty threat, esp as you say you're not going to do it anyway.

I would see about return and refund as a way of cancelling the deal. Hope it works out!

[ocelotish]

Where are you getting your info about small claims court? From what I understand it is to be used for petty amounts like this and up. There's usually a filing fee (c. $30-60) but the loser pays that, the winner walks away with the amount they're awarded.

[sintocat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, agreeing with most people here - just send the collar back. Get your money first though because he sounds like he may not send it once he has the collar. Even if the product is not the quality you thought it would be, that doesn't mean he can opt out of your end of the deal. So sending it back is the only way to really get everything settled. I'd just go to a professional and spend the extra money to get it done right.

[moljn.livejournal.com]

You may not have asked for the money in so many words, but your email makes it pretty clear you think he should pay you back. And he did, so you should return the collar.

As for the leather shop fixing the collar, it seems you didn't give him a chance to respond before you went ahead with it, so he's not responsible for the cost. That one is your mistake, not his.

No one comes off looking good in this, but he's right that you do have the collar and he's got nothing. As for the pillow, you might be able to sell it to someone else, depending on the picture.

ETA: Just, consider it a learning experience and return the collar; it's not yours to keep.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Agreed with this. Your cash was refunded which essentially means the transaction is cancelled, so the item should be returned.

Mod Post

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

Please remove the collar maker's name from this post. Your post was submitted as an advice post and does not have enough evidence to be allowed to name the other party.

If you wish to submit a beware of this person, please make a new post using our report template linked above. Be sure to include screen caps of your correspondence.
And make sure all real names and PayPal addresses are blurred out. We would also need to see images of the collar.

In addition, your edits have made the post very long. Please place the majority of your post behind an LJ-cut.

Re: Mod Post

[lillytiger (from livejournal.com)]

I am very new here and do not know what LJ-cut is can you please help.

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

The best thing you could have done is return the collar as unusable, and requested your money be refunded.

Since you were on a deadline and chose to fix the collar instead, it is up to you to compensate the maker for the value of the item. It seems unfair, considering the quality of the item you received, but you did not give him the opportunity to correct it or at least have the collar back.

Unfortunately, after all of this it sounds like it may be difficult to reach a compromise with him, but you need to at least try. Leave out the amount you spent having it repaired, as that was your decision, not something that was part of your deal. You could send him the money back, or some other amount you both think fair. If the leather shop kept the buckle you didn't use, you could send that back, too.

If he continues to harass and badmouth you despite trying to come to a compromise, I would certainly post a beware here. But again, you have make at least some effort to pay him for the work he did.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

After reading the edits, it looks like this is kinda devolving into a big mess on both sides.

Why was this specific collar so important for this trip? If the collar you got was so bad, why wasn't it just send back and a similar one at a pet store bought instead, until a better leather-worker could be found? Or is this a situation where there simply is no comparable commercially-made collar?

As others have pointed out, the original maker had nothing to do with your decision to have someone else fix the collar, so that money doesn't factor in to your disagreement with him.

I've got other questions, but I'm not sure they're appropriate for an advice post. I'm just getting more confused by the edits, I think. Perhaps a beware post about the artist would be beneficial at this point, as there do seem to be legitimate issues with their commission practices.

[lillytiger (from livejournal.com)]

The main thing was for there to be hardly any metal showing. Like I said I was not planning on getting it fixed. It fell apart in the guys hands. He told me of a hook they use on k-9 bite suits. The one that made it said he did use as little metal with was a lie as he said he was going to use snaps to make it close. You can send me a note to ask things if you wish. What I wanted can not be found in a pet store. Sorry I am all over the place my mind is a mess tight now.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

You really need to give him some compensation. He refunded you and you're keeping the collar. It doesn't work that way. The money you put to having it fixed shouldn't factor into this as you could have given him the option to take it back and refund your money.

While it sounds his craftsmanship was very poor, your behavior in this ordeal was just as bad. In the future, flying off the handle and issuing empty threats is not the way to resolve an issue. I am happy to see that you are being calm here, however. I understand that it is a frustrating situation for you.

[lillytiger (from livejournal.com)]

It you would look at the very end I said I am giving him his money back.

[crazy-onna.livejournal.com]

If you are unwilling to return the collar and unwilling to send him the pillow, maybe you can come to a compromise by deciding what the pillow is worth and send him the monetary value of the pillow. He thought they were $10, perhaps that amount will be satisfactory?

[lillytiger (from livejournal.com)]

I spent $25 on the pillow alone. To make it a pop out I added more fabric, stuffing and thread. I am also scared that of I did send him the pillow he would mess it up and tell everyone I did it.

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

You either need to send the collar back, or send the pillow. He already refunded your money, and he may not even want it after all this. If you need a collar so bad, you can always pick up a temporary one from a pet store.
You should not have had the other artist fix it, even if it fell apart in his hands with out consulting the original artist first.
It would be best for both of you to wash your hands of this and take it as a learning experience.

[ocelotish]

My thought is this. I think you guys need to find a mediator that you both trust to be objective (he gets an equal voice on who it is). You need to discuss what this guy put into making the collar work and the cost of materials. For example: if materials cost him 20 + 5 hours of labor one could figure that out his hourly wage based on his current prices. We'll look at that as a fair base price for the collar. If you're willing to pay that, great everyone can go home content. If there are big issues that keep the collar from being unusable as opposed to just not exactly what you wanted, then the mediator needs to discuss with him if he thinks its fair to lower the prices a little based on that.

You have to bear in mind that the goal is for everyone to walk away not feeling like they've been screwed over and everyone gets what they consider fair, at least to the point where they can walk away from this situation and go one with their every day lives. My thought is that there will be a middle ground. If nothing else you were initially budgeting $85+ for this collar and he was wanting $30-40.

My suggestion is that you sell the cougar pillow and get some money coming in from that so that you're not out the cost of the pillow. Find a fair amount with him where you can both walk away.

If you'd rather just be over and done with, just send him back the collar. That is the simplest solution to the problem. I know you're out the $25 repair fee, but it was your choice to get it repaired, not his. The only way you can make him even without a doubt is returning the product.

I understand that the work isn't what you want, but you don't get to keep it for nothing. Figure out a fair price for what you did get and pay that or return the collar and walk away.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Well said. I like the idea of a mediator, right now the third party involved is the OP's mother who is highly likely not free of bias.

[splatterhouse.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure why you had a third party (your mother) get involved in this? That would be very off-putting to many people.

[lillytiger (from livejournal.com)]

They are the ones that brought my mom into it. He had her email from paypal. He emailed her.

[enter-data-here.livejournal.com]

If the attitude and quality of the product was really that bad you need to make a beware against them with proof, so less people patronize him.

But to be absolutely honest, I kind of feel like this is a beware against yourself too. I am really surprised that you thought keeping his half of the trade - regardless of the quality - and your own was appropriate AT ALL. Or that you really expected him to pay for the 3rd party repairs before you even gave him the chance to fix the collar or refund you. I personally would have just posted a beware and sent the pillow to just be done with it. But your attitude is kind-of off-putting, as is your mom's. :/

I hope you learned from this experience for future dealings with others. Getting a mediator between you two, that doesn't include your mom, is a fantastic idea that I hope you both use.

[germanchoclates.livejournal.com]

This entire thing has turned into a giant mess. Your initial note back to them was nasty, bad product or not. You should have simply stated that the collar was not was you discussed/expected/etc. and asked if you could get a refund for it if you returned it.

I'm so confused as to why they contacted your mom on the paypal e-mail. I feel like something is missing there. If your FB is correct and you are 26, your mother should have simply said to contact you at your e-mail and never have gotten involved. Heck, you should have your own PP at this point. While the artist was less than tactful in their reply, your mother is doing nobody any favors, either.

You need to send off the pillow since you've already repaired and plan to keep the collar. That's not how business works. Even in a court of law you would understand that their job is to set things back to being equal, not in a better position.

You are being way too paranoid about the pillow thing. Just send it off and get this off your hands and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Take plenty of pictures beforehand and post them up.

I have to agree with the poster above me, too. It's a beware against yourself to. Nobody here is doing themselves any favors in representing themselves.

[temrin.livejournal.com]

Hm. While i do agree that sure, he deserves some compensation, him returning the money on his own accord was kind of his own doing. >. >

He chose to return the money. He gave away what he earned. He shouldn't get all of what was due to him since the collar was waaaay sub par. Sure, he paid for materials, but even a business will loose money if they pump out poor products.

The fact that he heard her request, what she needed, said he could do it, and then later on said he had no idea how it was to be done, why did he accept it in the first place? Thats bad business and makes me not really think he deserves anything in return for such bad business practices. He WAS paid, then chose to return it, on his own accord. I feel that was his choice to loose that payment.

I definitely do find the action of returning his money, a good thing to do to hopefully put this to rest, but, as going against the grain of everyone elses posts (that i read) as this is, I dont think he really deserves anything. He gave away his payment. Thats HIS choice. He had the option to keep it, the clients already didnt expect it back. He should not return the money and expect them to compensate him for that. You dont return a payment for a bad product you put out and then ask for the persons expensive pocket watch in compensation. -.-'

My 2 cents.

[splatterhouse.livejournal.com]

The only reason that anyone is arguing for her to uphold the original payment agreement is because instead of immediately contacting the maker & informing him his product was sub-par and she would be returning it for a refund (rendering the trade null & void), she instead kept the goods and had them altered. By accepting the product she accepted the trade & the terms as they were negotiated. She does not have the right (nor does anyone else) to decide on different terms after the fact, without input or consent from the other side.