Really pissed

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

WHO: synxirazu-niam @ FA

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/synxirazu-niam

WHAT: Was a group picture but i paid for my slot.

WHEN: Was paid on Jun 30th, 2011 since then I've sent several notes to know the status of the picture. Some of them were replied others not.

PROOF: Ahead! Attached pictures of the notes.



So, the Jun 30th, 2011, 08:06 PM I paid to synxirazu-niam paid 18 USD for a picture never done.



His mainly excuses were that he needed more people to join since it was an harem picture but he had like 5 persons already, that was a big picture and that was moving.

I sent him a note on Nov 19th, 2011, 12:09 AM, the same thin that he needed more people and confirmation form other. So i waited much more.



On Feb 24th, 2012, 06:23 PM again i sent him a note, told me that the picture will not be done but he will do a picture for me in "refund". We were agree and i sent him then the description and everything he needed.



The Jul 8th, 2012, 02:23 PM I sent him another note, asking if he had news, he said that was working on it...



Since then no more news and he emptied all his gallery but still uses his account. Tired of all these shit i left a shout on his front page requesting my money back, that was three days ago, no reply, no money back, instead of that he deleted my shout.

At this point I don't care about the art, I don't want to deal with him anymore, I just want my money back that for me its a lot.

Comments

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Hi! This post isn't too long, but would you consider putting it under an Lj-cut due to all the images?

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Done! And added more info using the template :)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

His account seems to be dead, but he has fave activity. it even says so up at the top in the artists profile name section. maybe he switched accounts?

Although the last fave is two days ago.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Nope, he didnt switched accounts.

He usually ignored my notes when i asked about the status of my commission.

Also he cleaned his account two months ago but continues using it like you see.

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

I'd like to point something out.
While the artist is in the wrong here for not delivering what you paid for as promised, you as a commissioner can come off as aggressive. You come off as such to me.

I totally understand you're frustrated, losing your money really does stink. But try to keep a cool head in any and all situations like these. Just saying "i want my money back" can rub someone the wrong way- and if the artist isn't trustworthy or a good one in terms of business, they can withhold your money out of spite and claim you got snippy with them. Saying "I would like a refund" is a lot better. Bonus points for pleases and thank-yous.

Try to avoid swearing too, as that can come off as unprofessional. Both parties need to be professional when it comes to transactions like these!

I'm so sorry that this happened and you had to wait so long, though. I wish you the best of luck.

[bayru.livejournal.com]

I would agree 100% on the language and how it is used with commissions. I had one blow up on me because we had both gotten so frustrated with each other and it was just ugly.

But that really does flipping suck. I'll try to keep my ears open in case I find out about where they are.

[sableantelope.livejournal.com]

I kind of get an 'English as a second language' vibe, not to diminish any of the advice you both have left but I feel that may have something to do with it.
I want to say Deutsche maybe just because I know when you speak English as someone who speaks mainly German it often comes across as clipped or short in tone or even down right rude. Some of what seems basic English politeness like the pleases and thank yous- even the level of swearing(like even the literal equivalent of 'shit' would not be so rude to be used, I'm not sure if I've explained very well)- can not be easy to get a hang of of.

Just a guess, again, not trying to contradict both of your advice as it is very sound; but I just get this feeling that there may have been an honest customs of language/tone of language barrier here that may make the commissioner seem more 'in yo' face' than they intended.

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

I'm also getting that 'ESL' feel from reading this.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Agreeing here. The "So?!" note put me off a bit. I do get the frustration though, they should have refunded before the commissioner needing to write such a note, but like you said, staying polite but firm does actually get you more then anything else.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Actually there is a lot fo notes between the two of us. The third screenshot its were i'm really pissed, but before that one i sent him other notes asking for my money back...

Now that you pint that out i'll screencap those too.

I asked several times peacefully about the progres, and when i asked for my refund he refused saying that didnt had money and offered me to do a pinup instead.

The third note comes after that.

[kasuned.livejournal.com]

You should share those notes, if you don't mind. You don't want to leave out any important details. The more proof you have, the better.

Even if you asked peacefully about the progress before, I still say you should have kept a cool head. Yes, losing your money is terrible. A lot of us here totally sympathize with that and your frustration is warranted. However the "So?!" note was, like another user has said, blacklist worthy. I'd have refunded you and not even gone any further. Try to avoid that in the future.

As a side note, I'm not scolding you or berating you for what you did- I'm simply offering advice and opinion. Stuff like this happens, unfortunately.

Can commiserate

[vixdraw.livejournal.com]

Yet another example of why one shouldn't even consider doing business of this nature online (art commissions). I've long since given up on the individual who shall remain nameless. They've evidently fallen off the face of the earth.

Re: Can commiserate

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

Um, it sucks that you seem to have gotten screwed over, but that doesn't mean the entire online art community is a bad idea.

Re: Can commiserate

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Wow, really?? This comment is hardly helpful to anyone. Your personal views have nothing to do with this situation. Sorry you got screwed over or something, but please try to be helpful to this situation and keep your negative personal views out of it.

(Edit: oh wow haha I hope that didn't sound like mini-modding I apologize if so!)

Re: Can commiserate

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That doesn't help anyone, and hurts those of us who actually take our business seriously and deliver our work on time. Art pays for a number of vital things in my life, so I make darn sure to deliver on time and ensure I get repeat business.

Re: Can commiserate

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Yeah, no. I don't really appreciate this comment, nor do anyone else who does work (honest work) online and work hard to please their customers.

Please do not make blanket statements like this again. It's very unhelpful. Instead, make an AB post about the person you have lost contact with.

Re: Can commiserate

[thedarrdarr.livejournal.com]

Yeah... I'm just gonna echo what everyone else has replied. I have had nothing but good experiences with commissions so far (doing the commissions, that is). Blanket statements like that are just unwise to throw around. Bad things DO happen, but they are not the norm.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

While yes, it sucks to wait a year with no updates, professionalism goes both ways. If I had gotten your So?! note, I would have blacklisted you then and there.

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

Without refunding the person or sending them the work that was paid for? All over tone?
While I agree that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, I think that as people in a customer service field, it needs to be understood that if you provide crappy service (artist sends clipped I'm workin on it notes, takes money but shows no progress, cleans out gallery and stops responding ala playing dead) your customers will be rightfully upset with you. Whether they choose to express that anger to your face or a third party site like A_B or yelp depends on the individual.
If you don't like these kinds of confrontations, you can do your best to avoid them by providing over the top customer service. This would likely never have escalated if the artist had just shown WIPs or delivered the picture. I really can't be sympathetic to the artist because it's his fault that the OP is upset with him.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

I didn't say that, and I'm not sympathetic to the artist at all. Personally, I'd refund them before blacklisting, does that help? It's pretty clear the artist is in the wrong here, and I agree that if he had done what he was supposed to do in the first place, this wouldn't have happened. Shitty customer service, no doubt. OP deserves a refund.

There are ways to express anger without being rude, like by saying "Artist, I'm going to go ahead and request a refund. I'm no longer interested in the piece due to the incredibly long wait time."

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

I make it common practice to not work with someone who doesn't mainly speak my native language due to complications and misunderstandings. Not that, that was really the initial problem here haha!

Also as others have said it seems things have gotten a little hostile on your end, but then again it appears to be a language barrier as well for them sounding blunt and such.

Also if there is additional information missing it would be highly helpful to add it so we can understand the full picture, especially if your being polite.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Well not taking commissions from people that doesn't speak your native language its a bit mean I believe. Talking the things get solved.

As for the other yes, i was really pissed at that time and ran out of patience. I waited for more than a year to get something that was expected to me. I was not expecting getting notes ignored at all and that really anoys me.

Lets do a quick example. If you're an artist and do a commission without get the payment upfront and you finish it on time. You wouldn't be pissed if the commissioner doesn't pays or tell you that will pay later and after 8 months doesn't reply anymore but you knows that is alive because keeps faving artwork?

Its the same, but saw from the point of view of the artist.

I'll post the other images once arrive home because I'm at work x3.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I disagree on the mean part. I used to work for pretty much anyone, but this actually caused trouble for both me and the commissioner. The commissioner had no idea what I was saying or what I needed and I didn't understand them, not knowing how to make them happy and leaving them unsatisfied. Google translate can only do so much since it isn't very accurate.

There's always alternatives, like giving full artistic freedom with no changes unless it's a mistake on the character. Or having someone speak for you that knows both languages.

Art commissions aren't the same as working at a cash or other where you deal with people who aren't fluent in english. At cash, you pretty much just take the money and rarely have issues, though it does come up. With art, you need information to draw it correctly and many artists, like myself, send sketch and approval stages and need to understand what needs to be fixed or not.

That said, if someone just isn't fluent, that's fine. What I'm pretty sure Ryun meant and what I mean, is people who know very little English where you can barely understand what they're trying to say. I'm not going refuse to work with someone simply because sentence structure isn't the best.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I'm totally agree with you.

If the commission only can say "me wants art, this my ref" of course that will be hard to understand what he wants.

I personally think that my english its pretty decent but i know that may be some errors in my descriptions or simply i don't know how to put my idea in words and many times if i can't explain the pose. Then i use google to look for an image and then show it to the artist or simply i give the artist a general idea of what i want and i leave him/her do the job.

But of course that later i don't complain of what the artist did because i know my flails.

I understood that she simply refuses any commission from others if they were from other country. Not as you stated.

My bad!

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

It really depends on both parties really. I personally have more trouble understanding people compared to others, so I may need to decline more people then the average artists, although that's already rare.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Strawberry summed it up perfectly, and I don't think it's mean at all. If someone English speaking or not cannot use proper English when trying to speak with you things can get skewed. It saves time and trouble.

I do have a few customers who aren't native English speakers but still do business with because I've never had a problem with them. It's not rude at all for an artist to avoid someone whom they think couldn't portray themselves properly with one another. Then again it's all on the person and how they present themselves.

Just because I don't like working that way doesn't make me a bad person.

Edit: also It didn't occur to me that you yourself weren't good at speaking English but the artist themselves having terrible grammar. If you took that personal I apologize. It was meant more towards the artist in question.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Oh no, not at all! I didn't took it personally, sorry if my comment was not clear or was rude.

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

Tis quite alright, a misunderstanding and lack of clarification on my part. No harm done.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh, that's super rude of them. I remember doing a commission for you before, and you were very polite and easy to work with. I can understand you being upset with having your chain yanked around. :) I just have to agree with others that it makes you look a lot better if you can keep your cool. If it comes to the point where you're so upset that you're going to get snappy with someone you're working with, then it's time to take a step back.

Have you let the artist know you've posted them here? It would probably get them motivated to either do the art or give you a refund.

[seinkraft.livejournal.com]

Yush! I remember get commissions from you :) Actually i think i got two or three.

I usually don't send notes to the commissioned artist once we agree on the picture and I pay it. I wait at least two months to get an update from them and if i don't know anything from their side then i send a note asking if something happened.

I sent a note about this yesterday, he saw the note but still nothing back.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

That's a shame that he seems to be running from this. =\ I've blocked them on FA.

[timelapsedecay.livejournal.com]

I was born and raised in America, so English is my first language, but from what I understand, English is a DAMN hard language to learn if it's not your first. I have always tried to consider this when I speak to clients who's first language isn't one we share. So while I see how the others reacted to "So?!", I wasn't immediately thrown off.
Different strokes for different folks!

Edit to add that I agree with most are saying about the artist though. They definitely owe a refund.

(frozen)

[vauvakolibri.livejournal.com]

I've heard that "English is a DAMN hard language to learn if it's not your first" thing said before, but I gotta ask here, what's the basis for saying this? Not trying to attack you or call you out, I'm just curious because to me English is kinda like... "Hulk speak" because it seems to lack 60% of the specific conjugations and whatnots that other (European) languages tend to have and most first world people are bombarded with English from an early age which generally lowers the effort needed to learn it.

(frozen)

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

This doesn't seem like a discussion that belongs in this post haha. Maybe take it to PM?? >w> Good question though.

(frozen)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is off-topic, so please take it to PMs and lets keep the discussion in the post on-topic, thank you!