Problems with Paint/Skink
Nov. 9th, 2012 12:44 am![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
annoyeddragon.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
artists_beware
It should be noted that this beware is similar to one that already exists on Paint, posted by Acroth.
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/tag/artist-paint
As you can see from this old journal by Paint.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2950583/
We're both on there (I'm ADF). The only difference is Acroth had the sense to go after a refund opportunity were as I stuck around longer, naively thinking if I was just patient and showed understanding during delays; that Paint would either do my art or refund me eventually. But here I am months on, still waiting. I stuck with her all this time and I'm afraid to say I am no better off for it :( I wish I didn't have to post this, but I haven't much choice given the present situation.
Who:
Paint, they prefer Skink but I'm used to calling them Paint.
Where:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/paint/ (NSFW page content if you have an account)
What:
Three separate commissions agreed at different dates. I've created copies of the conversations concerning each one, censoring out e-mails and any mature details. They are in order of when they were taken on, with the first being the most late.
Conversation - http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6821/paint1q.png
These were eight different nude poses of a character I called Emily for fun, which was an unusual human/lizard hybrid from a transformation story I wrote. They were coloured sketches and the price tag came to $50.
Unlike the other two commissions, this one was half completed and I have received four of the eight images. But progress inexplicably stopped.
Conversation - http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4240/paint2a.png
This was a character sheet for a new lizard sona I was hoping to get as an alt to my current one. It involved a clean/adult version of the same sheet. The price came to $71.
No progress has been made on this commission.
Conversation - http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/94/paint3jd.png
A transformation comic of a mature nature where a couple turn into anthro iguanas. Most of the details for this commission were agreed during a livestream so there is no record of those conversations, the above was just getting the details down so they had something to reference during the stream. The price came to $75.
The stream ended before Paint could get around to my commission, so she told me to attend tomorrows stream where she would work on it. I did, but she was too busy doing newly paid for commissions from that stream to work on my one, so it never got done. Some may ask why I would be silly enough to take up a third commission with Paint when she already owed me two that were late... I was assured the reason they were delayed so long was because Paint worked better during a stream, that work gets done during a stream. So I trusted her when she said a commission taken on during the stream would get done, but of course it didn't...
When:
When I started to feel no progress had been made for too long, I started contacting Paint regarding this. A record of these conversations can be found here.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7392/paint4.png
As you can see, the artist/customer relationship slowly disintegrated over time. While initially expressing a will to get these commissions completed, communication later collapsed.
Proof:
Here are the payment details for these commissions. Most of the discussion regarding these commissions are in the links included in the above section.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/541/paypaltransactions.png
Explain:
I feel I have done everything I could of to resolve this matter. I kept in touch, I attended streams when I was told she could do them then, I was open for negotiation on how to move forward with them. I went above and beyond some others when it comes to showing patience and understanding with Paints regular problems, but ignoring my messages has really left the situation hopeless. The only alternative to maintain conversation would be to invade a journal or stream and hijack the discussion for this purpose, which inevitably would have led to me being made to look the bad guy...
The worst part is, and probably why I've tolerated this for so long, is because I don't want Paint to dislike me :( I still don't, but I cannot imagine she will be happy to see I have posted this. My question to her would be "what else could I have done?" because I tried everything. I begged you to work with me to resolve this matter in the end and you responded with the silent treatment, what more could I have done?
I hope she cares enough about what other people think that being posted up on Artists Beware will prompt her to want to get this matter sorted. But given she is already up here for reasons similiar to my own, I'm just not sure... Best case scenario is I'm refunded for the commissions (accounting for reductions for the completed Emily poses) and we can both move on. Maybe in time even get over this experience and get back on good terms again? But that's just me being hopeful.
Refunds
$142.5 / $171
Refunds are to be made every Friday over six weeks, so $28.50 per payment.
17/11/12 - $28.50 received
24/11/12 - $28.50 received
30/11/12 - No payment was receieved this Friday.
03/12/12 - Paint had forgotten and apologised, will be getting payment later.
04/12/12 - $28.50 received
07/12/12 - $28.50 received
15/12/12 - $28.50 received
http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/tag/artist-paint
As you can see from this old journal by Paint.
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2950583/
We're both on there (I'm ADF). The only difference is Acroth had the sense to go after a refund opportunity were as I stuck around longer, naively thinking if I was just patient and showed understanding during delays; that Paint would either do my art or refund me eventually. But here I am months on, still waiting. I stuck with her all this time and I'm afraid to say I am no better off for it :( I wish I didn't have to post this, but I haven't much choice given the present situation.
Who:
Paint, they prefer Skink but I'm used to calling them Paint.
Where:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/paint/ (NSFW page content if you have an account)
What:
Three separate commissions agreed at different dates. I've created copies of the conversations concerning each one, censoring out e-mails and any mature details. They are in order of when they were taken on, with the first being the most late.
Conversation - http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6821/paint1q.png
These were eight different nude poses of a character I called Emily for fun, which was an unusual human/lizard hybrid from a transformation story I wrote. They were coloured sketches and the price tag came to $50.
Unlike the other two commissions, this one was half completed and I have received four of the eight images. But progress inexplicably stopped.
Conversation - http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/4240/paint2a.png
This was a character sheet for a new lizard sona I was hoping to get as an alt to my current one. It involved a clean/adult version of the same sheet. The price came to $71.
No progress has been made on this commission.
Conversation - http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/94/paint3jd.png
A transformation comic of a mature nature where a couple turn into anthro iguanas. Most of the details for this commission were agreed during a livestream so there is no record of those conversations, the above was just getting the details down so they had something to reference during the stream. The price came to $75.
The stream ended before Paint could get around to my commission, so she told me to attend tomorrows stream where she would work on it. I did, but she was too busy doing newly paid for commissions from that stream to work on my one, so it never got done. Some may ask why I would be silly enough to take up a third commission with Paint when she already owed me two that were late... I was assured the reason they were delayed so long was because Paint worked better during a stream, that work gets done during a stream. So I trusted her when she said a commission taken on during the stream would get done, but of course it didn't...
When:
When I started to feel no progress had been made for too long, I started contacting Paint regarding this. A record of these conversations can be found here.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7392/paint4.png
As you can see, the artist/customer relationship slowly disintegrated over time. While initially expressing a will to get these commissions completed, communication later collapsed.
Proof:
Here are the payment details for these commissions. Most of the discussion regarding these commissions are in the links included in the above section.
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/541/paypaltransactions.png
Explain:
I feel I have done everything I could of to resolve this matter. I kept in touch, I attended streams when I was told she could do them then, I was open for negotiation on how to move forward with them. I went above and beyond some others when it comes to showing patience and understanding with Paints regular problems, but ignoring my messages has really left the situation hopeless. The only alternative to maintain conversation would be to invade a journal or stream and hijack the discussion for this purpose, which inevitably would have led to me being made to look the bad guy...
The worst part is, and probably why I've tolerated this for so long, is because I don't want Paint to dislike me :( I still don't, but I cannot imagine she will be happy to see I have posted this. My question to her would be "what else could I have done?" because I tried everything. I begged you to work with me to resolve this matter in the end and you responded with the silent treatment, what more could I have done?
I hope she cares enough about what other people think that being posted up on Artists Beware will prompt her to want to get this matter sorted. But given she is already up here for reasons similiar to my own, I'm just not sure... Best case scenario is I'm refunded for the commissions (accounting for reductions for the completed Emily poses) and we can both move on. Maybe in time even get over this experience and get back on good terms again? But that's just me being hopeful.
Refunds
$142.5 / $171
Refunds are to be made every Friday over six weeks, so $28.50 per payment.
17/11/12 - $28.50 received
24/11/12 - $28.50 received
30/11/12 - No payment was receieved this Friday.
03/12/12 - Paint had forgotten and apologised, will be getting payment later.
04/12/12 - $28.50 received
07/12/12 - $28.50 received
15/12/12 - $28.50 received
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no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 04:31 am (UTC)http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4016833/
Where she states she's aware that there are messages that she hasn't even looked at yet, and she's going to continue not looking at them until she feels ready. People will note that the message she is referring to with "stop ignoring my messages" is actually the last message I sent her, as referenced in the 'When' section above. So she's seen that message, she's just decided not to look at it yet, again for the third time...
She states numerous reasons as to why she cannot do art or respond to people. It should be noted over the period that I've commissioned Paint, there has been seemingly never ending life problems that have prevented Paint from tackling these subjects. She's done commission streams to take on new work, but when it comes to keeping up with notes or commissions; there is usually some sort of life problem. You can even look at the year old journal I linked at the top of my beware, even back then there was always something preventing progress. The comment I made in it was referencing a recent downtime because Paint had burned out, that was the explanation at that time.
I clearly cannot say for certain if any of these issues are fabricated as excuses, but there has never been any shortage of them, Paint appears cursed by these life problems. Other people who experienced problems with Paint such as Acroth reported a similar situation, where their work was always perpetually delayed for one reason or another.
A year on, Paint still appears to be cursed.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 08:10 am (UTC)Looks like she's just made another journal. She's apparently willing to start talking schedules for refunds or doing work.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 02:28 pm (UTC)I'm currently in the process of contacting her regarding it.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 04:13 pm (UTC)I am sure Paint will not like you for it, but the option it always there if you need it.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 05:24 pm (UTC)What kind of evidence did you need to get PayPal to refund you? Like, just screenshots of the transaction and contact attempts? I've been waiting on an image for over a year, have been trying to get a hold of the artist since August to no avail[despite them being active on a lot of sites] for a refund.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 06:16 pm (UTC)If it's outside the 45 days, there's no guarantee, but it's always worth a shot, especially with non-response from an artist.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 10:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 03:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 04:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 08:15 am (UTC)I think at some point she probably should have just given out refunds whether or not the commissioner agreed or asked, but ah well. I hope you get your refund or work soon, man.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 02:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 07:52 pm (UTC)http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2531/paintresponse.png
I've got back to her saying I'd prefer a refund at this stage, which judging her last journal will likely be paid back in parts. Just waiting on a response now.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 08:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 08:05 pm (UTC)I don't know how long Artists Beware allow something to remain open, but I wouldn't be happy in declaring the matter resolved until a full refund is given. After all, the promise of a gradual refund isn't an actual refund. Paint has promised me a fair few things in the past, let's see if she actually delivers this time.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-12 08:33 pm (UTC)You are free to add a message to the bottom of your post as an update, letting people know it's in progress!
no subject
Date: 2012-11-13 10:43 am (UTC)Paint offered paying me back over a six week period. While it's longer than what I would have hoped, it's a schedule to resolve the matter so I agreed. I'll be updating the main post over time as these payments are received.
I should note that Paint has been civil regarding all this and hasn't been living up to the attitude I was wary of from other people's warnings. Provided she delivers on this promise, I'm pleased with this outcome.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-17 04:35 pm (UTC)You're a great commissioner, and really don't deserve that.
no subject
Date: 2012-11-17 06:40 pm (UTC)I don't like pushing people who are money tight to give some of it up for trivial matters like art, when they've got bills to pay and food to buy, but this is a never ending issue. Money is always tight for Paint, which is why they argued people shouldn't criticise them for accepting new commissions when they still owed others. I even kept a stiff upper lip as they increased their expenses by taking on more pets, as it was often a matter of do or die for the animal.
But seeing them offer a free art stream was really the last straw. As at that point it had just become a cruel joke, that I had waited so long and accepted every explanation that had been given, and then they just gave art away to people despite knowing others like me had waited a year for paid work.
Thankfully Paint has been civil regarding the matter and expressed interest in getting it resolved. I just hope she sticks to the present plan of repayment and we can both move on.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-25 12:05 am (UTC)This matter can now be considered resolved.
no subject
Date: 2012-12-25 12:29 am (UTC)