Beware: Starfinder/Kannos

[utunu.livejournal.com]

WHO: Kannos, Starfinder, Astray, etc.

WHERE: https://www.weasyl.com/~kannos, https://inkbunny.net/Kannos, although this commission was not initiated in either of those places.

WHAT: An extensive traditional painting with full background of a tribal wolf character in a forest/jungle by a waterfall.

WHEN: July of 2005.  That is not a typo.  2005.  A brief timeline follows.

• Commission initiated in 2005.  Had found Starfinder's work online, really liked it, decided I'd commission her.  This was my first real commission attempt in the fandom, back when I was apparently a bit too trusting.  Agreed on large traditional piece, full background, agreed upon price of $900.


• Initial payment of $450 paid on July 15, 2005.


• Soon thereafter, Starfinder expressed concern that she had a car insurance expense.  Since, at that point, the commission had been going well, along with her stating that it would be done very soon (in a matter of a week or two), I decided to be kind and help out, giving her the remaining amount due of $450 in the assumption I would not have long to wait.  And I guess that was my mistake; now that she had her money, she had no reason to ever finish the piece.


• Image of the paypal (thanks to Starfinder, actually - she sent this to me because, in the AB post from May regarding the petition to get her back on FA I had finally come out and mentioned my commission experience with her, and she didn't care for me saying 'almost $1000' therein).  http://imgur.com/IuxYuPN


• Communication continued, for a while... I would ping her regularly on IM and email, she would respond with the 'really soon', or comment about the reasons she hadn't had chance yet.  It became harder and harder to get in touch with her over time, and eventually she stopped responding altogether.  I continued to ping, as the years went by, every 6 months or so.


• Now the AB post in May of 2013 came about (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679851.html).  Finally I decided to say something.  I hadn't posted before, because of the (foolish) hope that maybe she'd come round and my associated fear that if I posted something she'd take offense and I'd lose that 1% chance of ever getting my piece.  Please feel free to read that AB post and see my (much abridged) story there.  Any proof required of the existence and acknowledgement of this particular commission is contained within Starfinder's own responses there.


• Starfinder says she will make good on it.  Of course, it's not going to be what I originally wanted - she doesn't want to do traditional any more.  But at this point, I figured anything would be better than nothing.


• And then the Starfinder Past-Due Shout-Out (http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/679971.html).  Further acknowledgement, and she actually started doing preliminary sketches.  Perhaps something would finally come of this!


• And.... no.  I immediately offered feedback on said sketches, was communicating via email with her, and then... silence.  It seems to coincide with the failure of the petition to get her back on FA.  I have sent emails asking for just a response, but have gotten nothing.  The last email I received from her was Oct 5, 2013.  I have sent successive ones since, but nothing.

EXPLAIN: Most of it's up there in 'WHEN'.  All I can say is, this has caused me a LOT of grief and heartache over the years.  I would have been happier throwing that money in a fire, because then at least it was over and done with, rather than being strung along for so many years, coupled with the feeling of being scammed.  I have been completely polite and courteous throughout the ENTIRE situation, and bent over backwards to accommodate all her crises and excuses.  I'm thoroughly fed up.  This was my first commission attempt, and soured me on the whole thing for several years afterwards.  For those who know me and my character, I get a lot of art done these days, and usually from really awesome artists.  And I'm happy that I finally was able to make the attempt at commissioning again.  Thank you to ALL those other artists who made the commissioning process a wonderful one; you've made me a happier Utunu, and I made it so I did not completely lose my faith in the process. :)
Please feel free, in the comments, if any of you would like me to speak further on any aspects of this rather sordid tale. :) I'd be happy to answer.  Right now, what I really want?  I want a refund.  I wanted traditional, she doesn't want to do that.  And you know what?  Anything I did get, after almost 9 years, would feel tainted anyhow.  I had better sign off here, before I start ranting too much. :)
And mods, please let me know if you need anything further for this AB post.  I haven't done this before, so hopefully this is sufficient.

Comments

[utunu.livejournal.com]

To all of you who have expressed sympathies and condolences over the ridiculousness of this whole scenario, thanks very much. :) I do appreciate the support! I'm still waiting to hear back from her on email - after she emailed Friday night because of the post I made on her Past Due thread, I emailed back Saturday morning, but no response yet. Will keep things updated. I do hope she actually comes on here and says what she plans on doing reparation-wise, but it's unlikely.

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

I say if you want to get her off er butt about it, let her know you'll be consulting a lawyer soon to see what can be done about itif it doesn't get resolved, or see if the lawyer can set up a new contract between you two that she has to have it done by X date. I bet it'd be done pretty quickly after.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

Somebody posted a comment to one of her journals and she claims she's in contact with you via email - has she made contact with you yet Utunu?

[utunu.livejournal.com]

Sorry I haven't responded yet! She did, in fact, email me last night. As expected, the parameters of the commission have changed - she doesn't have the materials to do the traditional painting any more, so would prefer to do digital. She offered scratchboard as a medium, but I'm not keen on that. And, as everyone would expect, she won't refund.
I have responded back. I honestly don't know what I want at this point... the stress and heartache from this are bothering me quite a bit.
She has said she has no desire to let her presence be known in this AB, blaming the 'mob mentality'.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I just don't understand how someone can do something blatantly wrong, then blame other people for recognizing that it's wrong.

900 is an awful lot of money. In the real world, if you take someone's money and don't provide a product, that's theft, and you get sued/arrested. I really don't get how she can think she didn't do anything wrong here.

For the record, and I don't think anyone mentioned it, if you take someone to court and win, it's common for them to be required to pay court fees. I understand why you don't want to, but it might be worth at least looking into. There's plenty of free ways to do so. She has no right to not refund you.

[utunu.livejournal.com]

I know, I should look into it. Being so unfamiliar with the process and being so stressed out already has caused me uncertainty as to whether I should. :(
I feel like a fool for being naive enough in the first place to pay her everything up front, foolish for not bringing this to light far sooner than I have, and afraid to choose the wrong option in resolving the issue. Do I accept art and look even more the fool, or take legal action? The worry, stress, and time are a concern for me.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Well you say 'accept art', but you're assuming she'd actually do it. Who knows? And if you do get the art, are you going to be able to enjoy it?

It's so weird to me that the moment someone screws her over when they don't pay, it's a huge deal, but if she does it, it's different and there's always reasons why it's okay?? Theft is theft is theft.

Wait until you're a little less stressed and have a clear head, then look into it. Lots of places will at least hear a summary of your case and talk to you about it for free. I personally would absolutely not want the art and would be demanding a refund. You were taken advantage of, you owe her nothing, never forget that you're not the bad guy here, no matter what she says. You're also not the only one. Maybe if there were actual consequences that she couldn't ignore, she would understand this was serious.

I'm just baffled that someone can have thousands of dollars of unrequited money and have no remorse whatsoever, and she doesn't seem to get that that's why people are always on her case. You don't have a large group of mostly unrelated people like AB (because despite what she seems to think, we aren't a hivemind) and have them all have the same opinion because they just want to be jerks for no reason. How can anyone logically think that? It doesn't make any sense. But I'd better stop ranting, sorry, haha. It's just not something I can fathom, being in this position. The guilt would be crushing, and I'd be doing everything I could to fix it.

I would like nothing more than to be able to say Starfinder has changed. I really would.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry... you paid for a painting, i'd expect an actual painting... it's like if I paid upfront to a car dealer for an audi A6 and get a VW Golf because the dealer felt like it at the last minute.

If I could, I'd donate money to start a case against her, if at least only for the lulz of having her dragged to court and see what the judge has to say about this... extra if its judge judy.

[hidden-kyuubi.livejournal.com]

With Judge Judy and the like it's actually paid for by a fund set up, if you read the fine print, and the winner gets paid out of it or such, so I think you get to go on free.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

It's disgusting that it takes an a_b like this for her to even bother to respond to you.

If it were me in your shoes I would outright refuse any artwork from her and demand a refund, or threaten to sue. But in saying that, I've never been in this situation and don't know much about suing or taking people to court. So I certainly understand your hesitation.

It's just so frustrating to see her get away with this, I can't even imagine how you must feel :(

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

And her response is doubly disgusting.... "It's between me and this individual, not me and the public." When you're setting up a patreon to get more income, and taking on more commissions while people are waiting 9 years on a $900 traditional piece you've ALREADY broken contract on and changed to digital.... well... it IS between you and the public- at least all of your customers who have a right to know how much scamming you do. Oh starf... :/

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

Ugh this whole thing is mind-boggling. I would be dying of guilt if I were in her shoes, or at the very least worrying I was headed for court and trying to make things right asap. Not that I'd ever let something like this get so bad. Does she have any morals at all?

My guess is that, judging by her past experiences, she believes she'll just keep getting away with it. You see criminals like this all the time, it takes them to be on the brink of going to jail to realize they've even done anything wrong. Looks like she's had PLENTY of second chances so far. More than what many other people would get.

[tylociraptor.livejournal.com]

Yeah...I think it's safe to say most, if not all artists, especially those working in fandoms, have had their own situations where they have done wrong, or messed up, or had an unhappy client. I know I have! That's what builds you as a professional- learning how to better yourself through those situations and not letting it happen again.

The problem with people like Starf is that people let her get away with it. CUSTOMERS who have been wronged let her get away with it! With no actual legal ramifications, and only posts on AB, she just scoots along happily, knowing she's safe. It's not the customers' faults of course, it's by their kindness and patience she gets away with this stuff. I hope Utuntu is able to either get her in court or get his product/refund.... But I really want to see her taken to court so that she learns that this kind of shit is not ok to pull!

[deejthistle.livejournal.com]

The "mob mentality" comment is really grating, given how many people supported her in the shout out post. Not to mention, several people simply saying the truth / things she doesn't like isn't a "mob." But I digress.

Have you specifically asked her if she could refund in smaller amounts? I expect you'd get the same answer, but it's feasible enough that you might have a chance.

[ithinkdirt.livejournal.com]

Yeah. There were a LOT of people basically having the mentality of "you go, girl!" and being hopeful for her to turn around. There was a real minimum of negativity... because I mean, I'd say that even the people most put out with her shenanigans would rather see her make good than fail.

[westly-roanoke.livejournal.com]

A $900.00 SCRATCHBOARD? What the heck? For $900.00 you best believe I'd get my butt out there and BUY the supplies needed to keep my commissioner's happy.

I"m also curious as to what 'mob mentality' she's talking about. I saw a boatload of people supporting her in the 'Fix my commissions' post. Typically, in this community, people want to see other artists succeed, even after they've screwed up.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

Considering she's doing 180 for scratchboards, shouldn't utunu get at least 5 of them?

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

My concern about accepting art is that'll she'll rush out a bit of half-arsed artwork just to shut you up rather than producing something of the value you paid. That is, if she ever does anything at all beyond the wip sketch from last year.

[silverwolf877.livejournal.com]

^ This.

I believe I read in another post that she owed somebody a (approx)$600 realism painting and they ended up with something terribly simplistic.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

good luck OP!