Patreon - Patrons who are manipulating their pledges

[altena000.livejournal.com]

Hi,

I signed up for patreon two months ago. And in short: I have overall monthly income around 600$. But I end up with around 400. I have it set as per two weeks. So I give them pledges twice a month while they are charged once a month but doubled.

So I receive much less money that it's said on the main page. It happens not only because people are declining transactions but mostly because they're pledging, after they do, they have access to whole patreon gallery (I don't know why they have access to whole gallery not only since they joined?) they download everything and change their pledge to minimum - if they are gentelman, if not, they withdraw their subsribtion right away after downloading stuff and dissapear. Until the next month, when they do the same thing. So basically they get everything for free when other people pay for their pledges.

So my questions are:
1.How do I ban patreon (Not delete but pernamently ban them from the list) and how do I ban patreons who are not my patrons anymore. (because they subscribe for 5 minutes and it's hard to catch them, and I want to avoid they do it again)

2.You too are informed via e-mails about everything, that you got message, that you got a new patreon, that this patreon changed their pledge, that your patreon just came back from the toilet BUT you are not informed that and who just withdraw their subscribtion? I have people who dissapear all of sudden and are manipulating their presence to avoid payment and I'd have to work as an policeofficer to catch them all. That makes no sense

3. Can I rearrange my pledges so the new patreons are getting acces to the gallery only from the day they joined?

I'm asking here because I couldn't find the answers on patreon site. I hope I will find some answers here.

In the end I wanted to share an opinion that manipulating on patreon with pledging is highly pathetic. I put a lot of affort in drawing all the stuff that I normally charge 100$ per piece. I ask for 5 dollars and people STILL tries to manipulate as hell just not to give me a damn dollar for the whole month of my work. Or are deeply offended that I am not giving them stuff for free because they can't affort to spend 2$ per month. The toilet paper costs 2$. Its discouraging because I can't even judge how much will I earn monthly.

Comments

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I've been struggling with this recently, also the restrictions on adult artwork; they say porn is banned but also that they allow work up to R-rating, which also includes sexual nudity but I guess not masturbation or outright intercourse?

But if I set my Patreon to NSFW I can't use Paypal to withdraw the money; there's another service, but it'll cost me 3 bucks to transfer it internationally and into my bank account, but then I'd want to save up some money before transferring it so it would be worth it, but I'm worried about leaving my money with Patreon. Especially since people can get a refund willy-nilly; are there no requirements for getting a refund from Patreon?

I was considering doing like a hardcopy portfolio reward tier, but I wouldn't want people to just grab their money back after I ship the physical items. :/

It seems like Patreon doesn't yet have suitable protections in place for the creators. Which is weird, because that's the people they are making money off, by taking a percentage. You'd think they would want to do everything to protect their cash cows. The fact they don't even have a ban function from the get go is mind-boggling.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Howdy!

I've spokeon to Patreon directly about the NSFW rule. It only applies to real people. Drawn porn is fine.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Score! :D
Porn everywhere! :D

Thanks for letting me know :3

[torch-tiger.livejournal.com]

Thanks for finding out and saying so. It would be nice if Patreon would clarify their rule about that then.

[ryuumajin.livejournal.com]

Wait what?

It means some prawny doujins is fine? o_o;

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[nambroth.livejournal.com]

"I was considering doing like a hardcopy portfolio reward tier, but I wouldn't want people to just grab their money back after I ship the physical items. :/"

I also offer physical reward items. I fulfill them the month after the pledges have been processed so that I already have the money in my bank account. I am not aware of a way for someone to do a chargeback once it hits that point, but I may simply be lucky and have awesome patrons? :(

[thaily.livejournal.com]

From what I can see, Patreon offers case-by-case refunds to supporters who ask for them. I haven't seen any criteria for what would make for a successful refund request, but the FAQ does say "Patrons will sometimes request a refund, which we will sometimes grant. In these cases, the refunded amount is deducted from the next transfer of funds."

I hope it never happens to you, I'm assuming you already keep receipts and such from shipping things out.

[nambroth.livejournal.com]

I see. Thanks for the information! I can see where it might cause some folks problems if someone did do a chargeback or refund situation. I keep mailing receipts for the two larger rewards I ship every month, though given who the two individuals are I'd be amazed if they tried to harm me in that way! For the postcards I do not, but I could afford to 'eat' the cost if someone really flipped out and wanted a refund. All of my patrons so far have been really awesome people. I am very fortunate. I feel like my patrons are a small, core group of collectors/fans that want to support me, and I know many of them. It could probably be a different situation if I were, for example, a popular furry artist and attracted a lot of people who just want rewards. I will keep an eye on it in the future for problems, but for now it's working out for me and, fingers crossed, I hope it continues to do so. :)

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I hope things stay good for you! I've been fortunate that only a few people have tried to take me for a ride, but I like to think I don't give people much opportunity to try. So I read TOS' and FAQs.

Would you be interested in an alternative?

[perldiver.livejournal.com]

I’m also a Patreon creator (http://patreon.com/davidstorrs), and a web developer. My business partner and I are frustrated enough with Patreon that we’re building an alternative. We’d like to make sure it solves the issues you’ve raised so, if you have a minute, I’d really appreciate your feedback.

We think the site should have:

* No percentage taken from your pledges
* Charge patrons immediately to avoid in-and-out “pledge-dodgers”
* Content management for all your content, past and present
* Specify when things should become visible (a.k.a. a publishing queue)
- ...to whom
- ...and for how long
* Ban abusive or exploitative patrons

As far as creators go, our current plan is that early adopters would receive as much storage as they need (within reason!), and future creators would get 1GB of storage for $9.99/month

Does this sound like a service you would use? Are there any other features you’d like? Feel free to PM if you'd rather discuss it in private.

Mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Howdy!

If you'd like feedback on your idea you are welcome to make an advice/ discussion post to the community. Provided it's not a blatant advertisement, and an honest bid for feedback.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

is there a way for people to make chargeback requests after it goes through? i haven't heard of that..

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

I don't think so. Patreon charges them, so if they chargebacked it would hit Patreon instead.

[staple-gunner.livejournal.com]

yeah that's what i thought, ty!

[thaily.livejournal.com]

From reading the Patreon FAQ, someone can request a refund and they'll get it back from Patreon if it's not in your balance. Then they'll deduct the amount from your NEXT pledges.

The FAQ for supporters says "However, refunds are NOT available for money that has already been transferred to a Creator for past creations or past months." but then they tell the creators "Patrons will sometimes request a refund, which we will sometimes grant. In these cases, the refunded amount is deducted from the next transfer of funds." so they might grant refunds on a case by case basis and then take the refund out of your future pledges.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Oh man, thanks for that!

Glad I'm leaving Patreon, then. I wouldn't want to get hit by "fraudulent" charges because Patreon doesn't want to eat the cost.