WhiteFenrril and admitted art theft

[lacusdelta.livejournal.com]

The user WhiteFenrril on Furaffinity admitted to me over instant messenger that he traces his artwork.

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/whitefenrril

He contacted me and after I looked at his gallery a lot of the images in his gallery looked traced, so I called him out and this is the admission that I received: http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae330/FruityBlergs/stolenartadmissioncensored.png

Most of the commissions in his gallery are TRACED. DO NOT COMMISSION HIM. If you have commissioned this artist in the past please ask for your money back!

I would also appreciate it if the people on this community could help me find the sources of his traced images!

Comments

(frozen)

[silverback2001.livejournal.com]

If they're using photographs to trace poses from, and the adding their own details, that isn't stealing. While I haven't done that sort of thing since I was like 12 (I'm 23 currently) and it shows a lack of professionalism and expertise in their field, I think you're overreacting. - Now if they're downright stealing other people's work, that's another matter. But the person in question admitted to tracing to create poses.

For all you know, they took bits and pieces of anatomy together in photoshop, turned the opacity way down, and traced over a cobbled-together image to create their tracing. There isn't any evidence that they are actually stealing, and I think the way that you spoke to them, calling their work "shit" (no matter how low or high quality quality you think it is) in the screencap you posted is just plain rude.

Personally if they can't be proven to have stolen anything, I don't see why people shouldn't commission them if they feel inclined. Sure there are plenty of other artists on FA who may be better or worse, but people can make their own choices.

(frozen)

[genkigami.livejournal.com]

As a photographer the "tracing photos is okay, tracing pictures isn't" mentality grinds my gears. Photos are art too, time and effort went into photos. Just because it's not a drawing doesn't mean it's free for anyone to rip. Tracing poses = tracing. Don't see how that's okay.

There's a way to reference photos that doesn't involve directly tracing photos.

(frozen)

[lacusdelta.livejournal.com]

I say shit as in just in general "stuff in your gallery" not an insult. I happen to cuss a lot.

Sorry but I think someone tracing photographs is still tracing and getting paid to do so, and that is still conning people out of money when they expected an original image.

(frozen)

[lacusdelta.livejournal.com]

also while this is allowed on Deviantart it's still against the rules on Furaffinity, especially if it is for a commission. Dragoneer would want him to pay those people back.

(frozen)

[magusmanx.livejournal.com]

If they are tracing anything, people have a right to know. I know I wouldn't commission an artist if they traced stuff, no matter how much extra detail they added.

(frozen)

[kriscynical.livejournal.com]

If they're using photographs to trace poses from, and the adding their own details, that isn't stealing.

I know you specified stock further down, but come on. Not only is that a great way for the person to completely stunt themselves, but it's unethical, dishonest, and LAZY. How much talent does it take to trace a photograph vs. draw something on your own?

For all you know, they took bits and pieces of anatomy together in photoshop, turned the opacity way down, and traced over a cobbled-together image to create their tracing.

Lazy. Unethical. Cheater. They need to pick up an anatomy book and actually learn something. I'd be pissed as hell if I commissioned someone and found out they threw together crap like that and charged me for it.

I hesitate to call people like that artists. If they'd done that at the college I went to, they would have been expelled immediately.

(frozen)

[thaily.livejournal.com]

http://www.petapixel.com/2010/01/28/obama-hope-artist-faces-criminal-investigation-over-use-of-photo/

Please stop spreading misinformation.
Tracing photos, even if you alter the image, is derivative work and copyright infringement.

Add to that the fact that the customers don't know he's tracing and most probably don't want to pay for something a kindergartener could do and land them in hot water if they found out.

(frozen)

[film2edit.livejournal.com]

Tracing photos is still stealing.

(frozen)

[ocelotish]

If they're using photographs to trace poses from, and the adding their own details, that isn't stealing. While I haven't done that sort of thing since I was like 12 (I'm 23 currently) and it shows a lack of professionalism and expertise in their field, I think you're overreacting. - Now if they're downright stealing other people's work, that's another matter. But the person in question admitted to tracing to create poses.

This is wrong on a number of accounts. Professionals (at least on conceptart.org) are fine with tracing ethically, meaning if and only if the original image may be used legally. So if you get it from a free stock site, or pay the proper royalties you're good to go, but you can't just use straight google images.

Tracing is something that's really looked down upon by many amateur artists as a shortcut, but is appreciated by professionals for the same reason. Personally I don't have a problem with it because I don't see it as very different than heavy referencing just with a big time-saver. It's a tool, but just like any other tool available to an artist, it can be abused and that's where you get the "traced look" and camera distorted proportions.

For those of you who are inevitably going to say you could do the piece just as well yourself, do you really think you could make a Drew Struzan poster if you had the photos he traced?

(frozen)

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

No... It's a sign an artist isn't very good if they are tracing, even if they trace photos or stock photos. It's cheating, especially if they are getting paid to draw.

[sorcererhuntres.livejournal.com]

Is there any proof...?

[lacusdelta.livejournal.com]

He admitted that he traced line for line, and another artist and I are searching for the sources to make overlays now. I posted this as a way of potentially gathering that proof.

[meleeisgood.livejournal.com]

I think your heart is in the right place but you're going about this all wrong.

[lacusdelta.livejournal.com]

I agree and that's why it's good that people like Claytronic put it into better words than I could.

[claytronic.livejournal.com]

I know I'm not the only person here who thought "porno trace" when looking at this

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/6347137

the foreshortening gives it away

[lackoflollies.livejournal.com]

Their coloring is, no offense, also a tad of a give away.

It just doesn't look right.

[squirrelly-kaku.livejournal.com]

He's got two things in his gallery that are traced from each other. :x I dunno if there's another picture he traced them from, but yeah.

(Links are NSFW)
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/2493464/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3590820/

[kerstin-orion.livejournal.com]

What gets me, is the older one is more refined than the newer one, kind of like a "copy of a copy"...

[amocin.livejournal.com]

From looking over his gallery, more so the Egyptian stuff, I see high references to how he draws his Jackal heads very closely resembling that of Dark Natasha's work, along with a few of his naga characters having a close resemblance. I have honestly only seen one person (Dark Natasha) draw the heads and more so the years of Jackals like that.

This itself is not proof of tracing, but highly referenced I think is pretty clear.

The other thing that makes me kinda weary is how he can make a very nicely detailed picture one moment, and then one that isnt as high of quality the next.

Its not enough to make me point out Thief, but it does cause me to want to tread lightly when dealing with such a person.

[wolf-goat.livejournal.com]

*wary - not weary. Weary = tired, wary = cautious/careful/suspicious.

[cesarin.livejournal.com]

most of the stuff seems to vary from animee poses to porno-traced poses.

[astraldescent.livejournal.com]

The porn traces will be damn near impossible to track down unless we have a resident porn expert who has literally seen everything. Porn poses are pretty generic too so it's not like you can immediately recognize stuff. It's blatantly obvious that's what he's doing though.

I do think that people should be told if he is tracing. I wouldn't want to buy a traced commission regardless of what it was traced off of.

[taasla.livejournal.com]

You can google the pose/position and hope you land it on google. Then again, who really wants to sift through pages of porno pics in the hopes of lining it up?

[thaily.livejournal.com]

That's a shame, I liked his character's design.
He could probably do some really great stuff if he could cast aside his crutches and learn to draw for himself.

Beware well earned.

[xyzillentz.livejournal.com]

Dayum, I commissioned two ref sheets from this guy and I've been using them a lot. It'd suck if they were traces...

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/5895373/
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4757605/ (NSFW)

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

Yes, those look very trace-y, but cobbled together a bit. It's the little details that, with his skill level, he shouldn't know yet to put in that are telltale. And even those are inconsistent (Note the neck details, and the differences in foot construction)

[tonic-down.livejournal.com]

I am kind of taken back by the tone you used with him at the very beginning.
He simply stated that your art needed work but was still good.
Than you straight up used 'Shit' to describe whats in his gallery.
Traced or not, that's completely uncalled for and rude.
You didn't even have a confession of tracing at that moment and you insulted him over a couple of words.

As well, your telling everyone who has commissioned him to ask for a refund? What of the commissions he said were 'fully original'?

[ogawaburukku.livejournal.com]

He doesn't seem like English is his native language... The work doesn't look traced to me because his lines are very sketchy. It looks like he probably eyeballs, but maybe doesn't trace. I wonder if he understood what you were saying.

To be honest, if he is tracing, he isn't very good at it... He seems to be at a very basic level with his art.

Mod Notice

[sigilgoat.livejournal.com]

I've frozen the above thread about the legality/morality of tracing now that we've started a discussion post about that very subject here: http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/530639.html

Please feel free to continue your discussion there!

[lilsongbird.livejournal.com]

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/764870/

Looks like the head and some of the anatomy came from

http://www.unicornlady.net/Gallery/images/18/grove_of_the_sun_copyright_h_kyoht_luterman.jpg