artist-crystal-for-ever

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

WHO: Crystal-for-ever

WHERE: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/crystal-for-ever/

WHAT: Wing It Commission -Two Character Adult Piece-

WHEN: Commissioned and Paid May 10th 2013. Final contact April 18th 2014, Unresolved.

PROOF: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/klb764ym9hk0299/Artists%20Beware%20Log.png

EXPLAIN: Note Logs explain it all, but, commissioned her, waited over a year for the piece, communication was shoddy at best, wouldn't refund, gives no ETA, defends the wait by saying she's waited 2 years for art before. From what little I can see before she deletes the comments, this isn't new for her.

Current Mood:Frustrated

EDIT: Sep. 29th 2014 Update: Was talking with the artist, still won't refund but is offering to make the wait up to me by doing the piece she was paid to do. Oh, and a sketch. I've included the full conversation below. The TLDR is she asked me to take this post down and offered to finish the piece she never started... after I give her the info again, I told her I'm not interested in trying to get the art out of her anymore, after over a year, I just want my refund. Excuses follow, she really wants to settle the dispute art wise and offered to do a little extra in a sketch as her way of fixing this.

PROOF: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/pw21jzcahg3m19k/Update%20Log.png

EDIT: Sep. 29th 2014 Update: I listened to what she had to say, I told her I want my refund. Full log right there. It's similar to talking to a brick wall. I don't think this will get resolved.

PROOF: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/h8yjxwfqivhl3d3/Second%20Update%20Log.png

EDIT: Sep. 29th 2014 Update: Issue resolved. She has issued my full refund.

Comments

MOD COMMENT

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

For those unable to see the full size screenshot, here is the link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/klb764ym9hk0299/Artists%20Beware%20Log.png

OP, if you can edit this link in please do.

Re: MOD COMMENT

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

And done :)

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

There's not even a single 'sorry for the wait' or anything like it in there. She doesn't care at all going by those notes, other than being offended that you'd dare to ask where your art is a year later. Goodness. What an attitude to have.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Wow, this beware is very, very well warranted. No refunds? Not even a "sorry I've been taking a long time" nothing.

(frozen)

[ryunwoofie.livejournal.com]

I'm not 100% sure but I think English MIGHT not be her first language? I could be wrong.

(frozen)

[lilclaudy.livejournal.com]

No, she is American. So English is her first language.

[lilclaudy.livejournal.com]

This is not new of her, she hides comments that do not please her. Beware well warranted and I am actually surprised I haven't seen more due to the hidden comments.

[whoop-zi.livejournal.com]

how is "well i waited this long" EVER an acceptable thing to say to a commissioner? jeez.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

That's what I was thinking. It's never an excuse for taking a year or two to get around to someone's commission. Heck, I've waited for, like, around 4 years for a music commission (from 2009 to 2013), but I never use that as an excuse why I take long on commissions.

[spytdragonfyre.livejournal.com]

Why would you have to prove you paid when her prior loosing her computer? Shouldn't she have that in her own notes?

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

I kind of got the impression (from the OP having to give her his info like 3 times) that she just plain didn't want to look through her notes for his stuff.

[latiro.livejournal.com]

Disappointed to hear that, because she's got some nice art. Other than that, the "NO refunds" clause is a sure sign of a big red flag.

Beware duly noted.

[masqueadrift.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that she wont post a queue list anywhere so people can see how many she has left to do or what her progress is on them, let alone keep track of them herself since she keeps losing her work to computer failure or whatever her latest excuse happens to be. Personally I'd like to see a queue list before I started throwing money at an artist for commissions but maybe that's just me. And many of her customers have been waiting well over 8 months to a year like the op here but she keeps hiding comments so no one else can see them. I've been waiting for her to pop up in here though. Surprised it's taken so long to be honest...

And jeez, she still owes art on that contest she held back in 2011 iirc. There's nothing on any of her galleries for it at least and she's apparently deleted the journal entry announcing the winner so I can't remember who she owes for that...

[latiro.livejournal.com]

Since I can't edit comments because someone replied to it, this is what got to me regarding the "no refunds" thing:

-No Refunds, don't have the funds for them so please don't ask me.

I'll be hazarding a guess she's probably using these funds to buy commissions from other folks, but I could be wrong though.

[lovelesskiax.livejournal.com]

I believe she has a hugggge rep for owing art and never getting to it, mostly contests spanning years. Even worse now she seems to be getting that habit with commissions.
I really hope you get some sort of resolve on this. Best of luck!

[tock-fast.livejournal.com]

Some of their rules alone for commissioning them, is a huge turn off:

"-No changes
-No previews
-Don't make shouts or comments on my page about your commission, if you have a question or so on: Note me
-Also no deadlines on these.
-No Refunds, don't have the funds for them so please don't ask me."
(removed the irrelevant rules for space save)

Their attitude every time you asked them for an update is terrible. From flat out ignoring you, or acting like you're a bother, and not even remembering who or what your commission was.

Beware well warranted.

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

Some of those TOS are pretty new. You take one look at them now and most people would go, "Nope."

[galaxy-deer.livejournal.com]

Ughhh that's pretty shitty that her TOS(?) states no refunds. Really shady business practices. :\ Same with having the commissioner repeatedly force him to remind her of what he ordered. I really hope you get either the art or your refund OP.

Because wow I think I would have lost all my patience with her and tried to do a charge back with PayPal.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

I'm sure she's not thrilled about having to wait 2 years for her commissions, but the fact people are leaving her waiting is a valid reason on why it's okay to leave you waiting?

"I'll do what I can to get your pic done"

Like it's out of her hands?
"I'll do what I can" should be "sitting down and drawing the commission".

She seems pretty immature and unprofessional, if she can't get it done she should issue a refund. I wonder how many other people are waiting.

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

From what I can see before she deletes the comments, a fair few. Yet I've spoken to other people and they've commissioned her and gotten the completed piece in a week or two, and that's as early as last month.

[likeshine.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry OP, you must be very frustrated :(

[missiekruger.livejournal.com]

Looks like she reopened her wingit commissions. :/ With a 'No deadlines' rule which just seems....kinda iffy with me. Like ok, don't expect it within a minute....but a year with only excuses? Thats unacceptable.
Edit: I misread the time on it. x w x; Ignore me.

[dragontripmon.livejournal.com]

That recent update.... Wow just wow and she still won't give you a refund. Don't take the option OP and just ask for the refund.

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and I have a whole new list of replies to post on the issue. Nothing can ever be simple can it :/

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Wow, reading the update. Considering someone has alerted her to this, or she's reading this herself: Denying a refund to a client when they've asked for one is theft in the eyes of the law. The OP doesn't want the art anymore. Everyone has bills, and that's hardly an excuse to run a business where you don't have enough on hand for at least one refund. That's not the OP's problem, and it should never be their problem.

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

I feel bad for how stern I'm being, but you're right. And it's been hearing stuff like that all day that has me standing firm in my decision.

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

Howdy! We went ahead and marked this as resolved for you.

[sacch.livejournal.com]

I've been sitting on this for a while and something about this is bothering me.

In the last note in the exchange here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/h8yjxwfqivhl3d3/Second%20Update%20Log.png) (very bottom note, bottom sentence), you threatened to report Crystal to Paypal for adult works for breaking their TOS, and therefore shutting her account down.

I don't think this is okay. At all. I get that she was holding money from you and was refusing a refund, but that's crossing over the line- you're messing with their livelihood and getting into their personal life; and unless they're obviously using Paypal to steal and commit fraud (Pirate-Cashoo, Starfinder, etc) then even threatening to report her to Paypal is beyond unnecessary in my opinion. Just because of that, I'm honestly afraid to do business with you, lest you do that out of spite for whatever reason.

Paypal is the ONLY way some full-time artists can get their income (given the majority of commissioners use it), and it's the most popular payment platform out there. If you freeze their Paypal, there goes that job. There goes their income. I don't even think Crystal-For-Ever, crappy service or not, was deserving of that. Yeah, you wanted your refund, but you could have threatened to just call Paypal and see if you could open a dispute. I bet that would have been enough.

We have no idea how long her actual backlog is, and until we know for sure, how do we know if she's really using her Paypal account to scam and hold money from a mass amount of people? I'm not defending her actions in the slightest, holding your money was wrong and unprofessional and her other beware posted also shed some bad light.

However, you bought the artwork, from a seller with "obscene" products, therefore you were also using paypal for "obscene" content. Wouldn't that get YOU suspended as well?

[hetzergsd.livejournal.com]

Few things there,
1. I think I would get suspended too, not all too clear on the purchasing thing.
2. It was a bluff, sometimes you have to get tough with thieves to get them to make the right choice.
3. I consider Crystal-for-ever a thief and a fraud and I would fully support her suspension as an artist if that was a possible penalty. I completely support actual artists and the trade they have taken up, and I know Paypal is the easiest most reliable way to collect payment for their work, without it, it may stifle their income considerably and cause undue difficulties in life by having their collection method revoked.

But the number of 'artists' simply using and abusing sites like FA and services like Paypal is increasing dramatically and something has to be done about it. There's a name for these people, scammers. And in my opinion, someone who will pump our a dozen pieces of personal art for every commission produced wile continuing to accept payments for new commissions is a scammer.

Yes she produces some work for clients, and no, we don't know exactly how many people who never received anything for their payment, but we do know that it should not be happening. Period. The new poster commissioned her in April of this year and received his work in September, I think that's sufficient proof for many that she simply picks and chooses what she does and does not want to work on. And again, in my own personal opinion, that's thievery. And thieves deserve punishment. Simple as that.

Even if I wasn't bluffing about reporting her to Paypal, the whole situation wouldn't have even arisen if she had simply done her job or adhered to her obligations. And you know, I think if it took my Paypal suspension to prevent her from doing this to others, I'd do it. I can afford to cut losses on art, I've lost several thousand dollars in art over the past 3 years, and I can manage, angrily, but I can.

But how about the person who saves for a single commission, just to have lost their money? That's why I did this. And that's why I think more people should stand up for their consumer rights. I don't mean to sound all self righteous, but accountability has to be brought back to this industry, or else we're going to see a lot more cases like this and other start popping up.

(frozen) mod comment

[celestinaketzia.livejournal.com]

This isn't relevant to her beware at all, and considering the content on that site I will be screening this post.